Staying sober

[Albion]

Hey

I haven't been active on bluelight for a while, but I've been struggling with MDPV addiction for 3 or 4 years, going through bouts of sober living, and bad relapses. I have never been able to stay clean for more than three months before hitting a psychological wall and relapsing hard. At the beginning of this year I made a real promise to myself to kick the habit for good, yet still relapsed 3 times til this point.

3 months ago I took a drastic measure to better my life and moved from London to Berlin, to be with friends and to focus on my own interests in art and music. My last relapse was in may, and I am approaching the 4 month mark since I last relapsed, which is a record. BUT having gotten to this point (I have never been over 3 months sober from any drug binge since I was 19), I'm feeling a bleak depression set in. I think it is this feeling that has fuelled my addiction for a long time, and I have never had to come to terms with it before until now. I feel like I could relapse at any moment, and I am finding being sociable and active increasingly less satisfying.

I guess I'm treading new ground, and in a new headspace, coming to terms with denying full on cravings...living with cravings surpassing the point at which I would normally relapse, day in day out.

I don't currently have an address where I could get MDPV delivered to, and have so far resisted binging on any sort of substance since moving abroad. But if I moved in to my own place, and had an address, right now, I feel a relapse would be inevitable. I want to be able to have my own place, time on my hands, and not have to deal with relapse.

Who has been here already? How do you learn to live without relapse? Relapses on MDPV are really heavy, they fuck my life up and take a long time to recover from, physically and mentally.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Have you tried getting into therapy? It's important to find out why you're craving.

 

[Moreaux]

Kudos on your sobriety - that's awesome! MDPV is some wicked shit (pardon my language, I normally don't swear but in this case it's appropriate). I binged one time on MDPV, I did ~125mg in the course of one evening and it screwed me up for a few weeks, I can only imagine binging for a few days...OUCH.

Captain Heroin is correct, therapy is essential to getting healthy. You have an underlying issue motivating you to use, and that needs to be addressed to make further progress in recovery. I was a chronic relapser for years until I finally addressed my issues, now it's not hard to stay sober, I finally have over two years and am so grateful to escape the grips of addiction.

You say depression is making you crave MDPV - I think part of that depression is from your body/brain healing and your neurotransmitters getting back into proper balance. It's part of post acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS) which is quite normal, most people in recovery experience it and it can last for a few months or come and go in waves for up to two years. Is there anyway you can see a psychiatrist and get some medication to help you get through this phase? I normally do t recommend medication, but I think in your case short term antidepressiant should certainly help get you through PAWS without having to relapse.

If you see a psychiatrist they can also get you into therapy so you can work on those underlying issues. It may take you seeing several therapists to find one you like - but it's worth it and it gives you your life back.

It's obvious you want to be healthy as you hve worked hard to get to where you are now and I commend you. If you can't see a doctor let me know as I have other suggestions, but professional help would be the best.

Keep up the good work and focus on how well you are doing. I hope you are proud of your accomplishments!

 

[herbavore]

Hey Albion, I'm so glad to hear of your efforts and successes--the relapses may feel like failures but why not continually focus on the periods of time without as incredible successes? You and I have talked specifically before about MDPV and that drug's incredible hold on people and so I understand your fear. I do not think I will ever forget my son's face when he broke into tears in the car one day when I was pleading with him to stop MDPV and he said, "Mom you have no idea. I'm so scared. I've never been scared of any drug but this one."

I wanted to ask you whether or not MDPV is something that you feel helps your art or hurts it? I'm asking that because I wonder if that could be another more sub-conscious hook it has in your brain? I remember back when adderall was prescribed to my son I asked his pediatrician to give me a week's worth because I wanted to know what he would be dealing with--suddenly I was producing paintings at warp speed and my house was spotless to boot. I remember thinking at the time, "This is great but it isn't really me." But even though that was one week of my life over ten years ago that little seduction remains in my brain to this day. This may not be relevant for you because you are so naturally prolific but it's worth exploring.

What about support? Do your friends know what you are struggling with? Do you have any other form of support for the inevitable cravings etc? I become more and more convinced that the paradox of recovery from addiction is 1) impossible to do on one's own and 2) ultimately done on one's own. In other words, though it comes down to all the internal will-power, conviction, determination and personal strategies for healing the psyche, it simply cannot be sustained by most people without the support of others on the outside that are fully aware of the situation and can be understanding without enabling.

I'm so glad that you are posting here. Please do not ever let a relapse prevent you from getting support through the recovery forums, including sober living. Read through SL and you will see that many people are trying for total abstinence while so many others are going for abstinence from one drug only and all are, or have been, living with the same ups and downs that you are experiencing. Getting the support of others during relapses is crucial--no need to ever hide what you are going through.

You know how I feel about your talent but I hope you also know how I feel about you. I care for you immensely and care what happens to you. I wish you could have seen the big happy smile on my face when I saw you had posted your new work in SO. I loved the work, as always, but it was knowing that you are alive and well that was the source of the smile.

 

[Albion]

Have you tried getting into therapy? It's important to find out why you're craving.

A couple of years ago I went into an 8 week therapy session specifically for mdpv. I was not ready to quit back then though, and my therapist said the same. She concluced that my drug use was aggressive and tied to anger issues, but that the situation I got myself into with mdpv was one that I needed to seek help with when I was ready to quit, via young persons' addiction schemes. I have left the country though; I haven't researched Berlin drug counselling but my German is quite patchy. I don't know if they do sessions in English but it will be worth checking.

Kudos on your sobriety - that's awesome! MDPV is some wicked shit (pardon my language, I normally don't swear but in this case it's appropriate). I binged one time on MDPV, I did ~125mg in the course of one evening and it screwed me up for a few weeks, I can only imagine binging for a few days...OUCH.

Captain Heroin is correct, therapy is essential to getting healthy. You have an underlying issue motivating you to use, and that needs to be addressed to make further progress in recovery. I was a chronic relapser for years until I finally addressed my issues, now it's not hard to stay sober, I finally have over two years and am so grateful to escape the grips of addiction.

You say depression is making you crave MDPV - I think part of that depression is from your body/brain healing and your neurotransmitters getting back into proper balance. It's part of post acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS) which is quite normal, most people in recovery experience it and it can last for a few months or come and go in waves for up to two years. Is there anyway you can see a psychiatrist and get some medication to help you get through this phase? I normally do t recommend medication, but I think in your case short term antidepressiant should certainly help get you through PAWS without having to relapse.

If you see a psychiatrist they can also get you into therapy so you can work on those underlying issues. It may take you seeing several therapists to find one you like - but it's worth it and it gives you your life back.

It's obvious you want to be healthy as you hve worked hard to get to where you are now and I commend you. If you can't see a doctor let me know as I have other suggestions, but professional help would be the best.

Keep up the good work and focus on how well you are doing. I hope you are proud of your accomplishments!

Thanks for the encouragement and support!
My underlying motivations to use seem to originate from lonliness, boredom and sexual frustration. If any of these needa are met, I feel no desire to use, but of course I go through periods of time where I am either lonely, bored or frustrated, just like everyone else. The problem is that I tend to think about MDPV in these moments and eventually relapse on impulse.

I was aware of PAWS but was not aware that this was what I am currently experiencing. It's good to know it is a documented thing and considered to be part of the recovery process. I'm gonna take a read on people's experiences dealing with it.

I am potentially open to seeking antidepressants for PAWS, but I would rather go for therapy instead. Although it is expensive...

Hey Albion, I'm so glad to hear of your efforts and successes--the relapses may feel like failures but why not continually focus on the periods of time without as incredible successes? You and I have talked specifically before about MDPV and that drug's incredible hold on people and so I understand your fear. I do not think I will ever forget my son's face when he broke into tears in the car one day when I was pleading with him to stop MDPV and he said, "Mom you have no idea. I'm so scared. I've never been scared of any drug but this one."

I wanted to ask you whether or not MDPV is something that you feel helps your art or hurts it? I'm asking that because I wonder if that could be another more sub-conscious hook it has in your brain? I remember back when adderall was prescribed to my son I asked his pediatrician to give me a week's worth because I wanted to know what he would be dealing with--suddenly I was producing paintings at warp speed and my house was spotless to boot. I remember thinking at the time, "This is great but it isn't really me." But even though that was one week of my life over ten years ago that little seduction remains in my brain to this day. This may not be relevant for you because you are so naturally prolific but it's worth exploring.

What about support? Do your friends know what you are struggling with? Do you have any other form of support for the inevitable cravings etc? I become more and more convinced that the paradox of recovery from addiction is 1) impossible to do on one's own and 2) ultimately done on one's own. In other words, though it comes down to all the internal will-power, conviction, determination and personal strategies for healing the psyche, it simply cannot be sustained by most people without the support of others on the outside that are fully aware of the situation and can be understanding without enabling.

I'm so glad that you are posting here. Please do not ever let a relapse prevent you from getting support through the recovery forums, including sober living. Read through SL and you will see that many people are trying for total abstinence while so many others are going for abstinence from one drug only and all are, or have been, living with the same ups and downs that you are experiencing. Getting the support of others during relapses is crucial--no need to ever hide what you are going through.

You know how I feel about your talent but I hope you also know how I feel about you. I care for you immensely and care what happens to you. I wish you could have seen the big happy smile on my face when I saw you had posted your new work in SO. I loved the work, as always, but it was knowing that you are alive and well that was the source of the smile.

Ah it's great to hear from you Herbavore. You're the person I really wanted to reach out to when I wrote this thread.

I never considered MDPV to be an artistic enhancer, to me it does the opposite; it kills motivation and turns my focus away completely. I never took MDPV to be creative. I just took it for the thrill of the high. At first I would live semi-functionally and mix up my activities but it became something I just took to watch porn to. It's sad but true! And perhaps the logical conclusion of any person's journey with MDPV. That is why it devastates my self-confidence.

I have a great support network here in Berlin now, which is why I moved. I had a couple of old uni friends living here already. Now I have a larger network of friends who I see, and 2-3 who understand the situation and are proactive about looking after me. All of us use drugs on nights out, go clubbing, smoke weed, drink etc. We have fun, and being able to take drugs socially again kinda feels like a big relief. It feels good to let off some steam at any rate.

Anyway, yeah I am alive, and trying to keep my mind on things besides drugs now, which is why I don't frequent bluelight any more. It is nice to come back to benefit from the recovery forums now though

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Definitely go back to try therapy again, now that you are ready to try staying clean.

I would try to think out why you're using. Trauma? Boredom? Both? Something else?

Try to also map out "what happens", from A to B to C, all the way to Z. Try to figure out things you can do at each step to interrupt the cycle of relapse.