spirits and psychedelics

[I<3Hallucinogens]

anyone else have any experiences where they take a psychedelic and seem to become more "spiritually sensitive" afterwards? basically asking if you see ghosts after a high dose LSD trip for instance. my buddy whom i almost always trip with has always been sensitive to spirits and can feel them walking around and can see them occasionally. i on the other hand have always been curious about it and had those few random encounters, but never saw anything really except once when a spirit showed itself to my friend and i at the same time(NOT while tripping). post LSD he says that he sees them wandering almost everywhere he goes, and they talk to him and try to interact with him and such. i have never had any of this happen before i took 4 double hits of acid, had the most amazing drug experience of my life and honestly dont remember large portions of it, i know what i was doing, i just dont remember what was happening. now i feel that i can actually see and sense a lot more then i was before. example, i got dehyrdated at work and passed out at work a couple weeks ago, and my grandpa(who passed in 2000) followed me to the hospital and then home and continued to stand in my doorway, and would occasionally come to sit on my bed and stayed with me all night. we didnt talk or anything but we really didnt need to.
another example being that when i come home from work at 2-3am a had felt a presence in my front yard for just over a month, like something was watching me and waiting for me. i could tell that it was not a person however. within a month of noticing this presence, my family started to notice a rotting death kind of smell coming from somewhere in the yard. when we found where it was coming from(a dead deer) and removed it, i immediately felt the presence leave, and no longer have the feeling of something in my front yard.

TL;DR question 1- do you believe in spirits/ghosts or whatever you want to call them and are you sensitive to them
question 2 - if you were not before, did you become sensitive to them after a profound psychedelic experience?

sorry if my grammer is a little bit off, just been bouncing this off of people all day and wanted to get this out before i pass out for bed tonight.
just figured this would be a good topic that i have not seen here before

 

[Si Dread]

I was about to start ranting about the folly of combining Whiskey & acid!

You're alright, nuts maybe... but otherwise, carry on...

 

[Solipsis]

Ghosts are manifestation of the mind and psychedelics are mind-manifesting drugs.

Hearing voices as well as seeing apparitions are not only common to psychotic and schizophrenic individuals but are instead observed in statistically large portions of the population, but most do not talk about it because of insecurity and fear of being judged. There can be normal psychological causes or neurological causes, not necessarily psychiatric ones and supernatural explanations are not necessary. It only starts becoming a problem when people are directly influenced by their delusions and hallucinations, rather than merely observing them.

I've read this multiple times, the last time was in the book "Hallucinations" by Oliver Sacks.

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

I don't believe in ghosts so I assume that's why this has never happened to me.
Did you believe in spirits before this experience?

 

[Asante]

"Ghosts are manifestation of the mind and psychedelics are mind-manifesting drugs."

I think thats too easily put. All over the world there are spiritist traditions older than recorded history that deal with spirits that apparently exist as entities separately from the observer. Some peopler who are "seeing things" might indeed see things that did not originate with them.

Most common example that comes to mind are Suffocators. All over the world throughout history, roughly one in 20 people at least once in their life experiences that a small but heavy spirit about the size of a cat sits on their chest while they sleep and takes their breath away. We can say "sleep paralysis" and that says something about the state you're in, but says nothing why it has to be a little gray or brown gnome perceived as a being of great evil committing it as a malicious act.

Many people will recognize this, and have themselves experienced something very similar to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJM2jgPe6Ew

 

[zn13bt]

I was a skeptic about these things myself before trying psychedelics (though I'd had a few incidents of sleep paralysis when I was a teenager that made me wonder). But after taking 2C-I a handful of times I started to become aware of presences in my mind that seemed to be broadcasting short messages to me, mostly things like "we've always been with you" and "you are safe and taken care of". Which was very reassuring to hear at the time, being that was I kind of sketched out about experimenting with an unfamiliar drug I'd bought over the internet and worried about what I might be doing to my own sanity. Over the years I gradually learned how to get the attention of some of these presences during my trips and communicate with them. This was a confusing period of my life and there were a lot of different spirits coming and going and giving me conflicting and sometimes disturbing information. Eventually a friendly one came along and offered her services as a kind of guardian to keep the others at bay, after which things settled down a lot in my mind and these experiences became a lot more manageable.

More recently I've been rereading a lot of Greek mythology that I'd come across in my childhood, and kind of reading between the lines and interpreting some of their strange stories and symbolism in the light of my own experiences. I've found that deities are not easy to get the attention of, and when you do it can be a little frightening because it's obvious that you're interacting with something that is much, much older and bigger than you are. I don't think of these kinds of beings as necessarily "supernatural" (whatever that means); it seems like whatever they are, they are intimately interwoven within the natural world and act within and through it instead of apart from it from on high like in the traditional Christian understanding of God. At the same time, it doesn't feel right to simply dismiss my experiences as being nothing more than drug-induced hallucinations. It's kind of like the Turing Test - if you repeatedly engage with something in conversation over and over again, you can get a sense of whether or not what you're communicating with is merely just a product of your own mind, or is something truly independent from yourself.

There's a short essay by Phil Hine called "On the Aetiology of Spirits" which I've found to be a useful description and classification of spiritist phenomena. I'd also recommend John Michael Greer's book A World Full of Gods: An Inquiry into Polytheism.

 

[Solipsis]

^ I think in most cases polytheistic paradigms involve anthropomorphisation of either

- Abstract metaphysics / philosophical archetypes, or
- Natural phenomena such as meteorological or astronomical events (watch Zeitgeist) that have not yet been described by science, whose relationships are described by myth

I've had entity contact myself and also contact with the divine (best described by the concept of Brahman) numerous times and they we very compelling experiences but true skepticism IMO is admitting that it is possible (and due to Occam's razor therefore more likely) that these were reflections and manifestations of aspect of my own mind.
People resort to supernatural explanations when we fail to explain experiences using rationality, which is a bad excuse especially if history has shown us over and over and over again that a huge number of supernatural explanations could be rebuked by the ever continuing progress of rational, scientific and empirical explanations.

And there have been other hints that I have deluded myself with lofty ideas in the past for example about being able to experience cosmic events on 5-MeO-DMT and DMT. However the more I think about it, the more sense it makes that I do not experience the true source of the universe and how it ignites from a Big Bang, but rather my inner universe of my mind - the model I have in my mind of my complete understanding and sense of self and how it fits in everything else.
IMO it is this reflection that one can witness from profound and astounding novel perspectives, which makes much more sense in every way.

Theories like this that are much more scientifically sound do not necessarily have to take the magic away, at least metaphorically speaking.

I also met machine elves on DMT and mushrooms and other similar compounds as well as feeling "spirit-like" entities touching and caressing me, and seeing their static-like shapes when I closed my eyes. There were many other very convincing experiences but it seems too easy and naieve to me to just believe that, when there have been so many times before where I learned that our minds can fool us when it tries to make sense of unusual brain activity. After all we know that our minds are skilled to do that, one of the best examples being dreams, and for good reason. Making sense of things is functional. Ghosts can also be useful metaphors but you got to know when to stop confusing metaphor with reality / truth.

 

[zn13bt]

^ Well, like I said, use the Turing Test. I could just casually dismiss all of the posts on this board from this "Solipsis" guy and everyone else here as being nothing more than the solipsistic creations of my own mind. Or I could pay attention to the differing writing styles and information being communicated and figure out that there are actually different people posting here, it's not just one person monologuing to themself in perpetuity. Apply the same kind of discernment to mental phenomena and make your own conclusions.

 

[Solipsis]

^ Well, like I said, use the Turing Test. I could just casually dismiss all of the posts on this board from this "Solipsis" guy and everyone else here as being nothing more than the solipsistic creations of my own mind. Or I could pay attention to the differing writing styles and information being communicated and figure out that there are actually different people posting here, it's not just one person monologuing to themself in perpetuity. Apply the same kind of discernment to mental phenomena and make your own conclusions.

Are you telling me you are unable to imagine characters that have different personalities, traits and styles than your own? Also I don't believe that imagination while sober is necessarily the same as imagination on psychedelics. While tripping it may be possible to lose conventions and rules, for example I have hallucinated impossible geometry like square circles. It is apparently possible to associate and combine ideas to form whole vistas. IME this can happen in gradations of complexity and plausibility, I highly doubt that at some arbitrary point somewhere down the line I stop experiencing imagination and fantasy but instead other existing worlds via some hyperspace wormhole.

Now if there would be novel information that some entity shared with you that for some reason you could not possibly have learned somewhere else and you would be able to verify this information as true, then we'll talk.

The turing test does not work because it tests the level of intelligent behavior and communication and whether it is on such a level that it is indistinguishable from a human. Testing whether parts of your subconscious subroutines and mental processes that may be manifesting themselves directly (since psychedelic effects may also be psycholytic and which may also happen with psychosis) does not work because you are yourself human so it would be no wonder if the test comes back positive. But yeah I know what you meant from the description, I just don't think it is a Turing test.

Solipsism is illogical and can be disproven because of new information individuals can share with each other, if it would all be the same person it would impossible to teach yourself something new. Again: it is about information, not about the level of intelligence others seem to have.
ESP and stuff like that has never been proven, despite million dollar rewards because the challenge would be that for example information is retrieved remotely.

 

[steve022]

I don't know. I think that psychadelics have made me a much more spiritually aware person but I am not entirely sure I really believe in ghosts personally so I have never seen ghosts on any sort of drugs. However, I am sure that it would be possible to see ghosts on hallucinogens, I mean you could see pretty much anything and if you believe in that sort of thing you would have a pretty high chance of seeing them while on hallucinogens. As far as whether psychadelics can cause any kind of connection with spirits, the occult, etc. I am not really sure. For me, they made me think that a lot of the afterlife and even spiritual concepts like God really exist within us as opposed to being an external force.

 

[I<3Hallucinogens]

ok just to clarify, i didnt see them on drugs, it happened about 2 or 3 weeks after the heavy acid dose for the first time, and is happening more regularly now even though ive been goin easy on myself since that experience.. xD
the other part that makes me wonder is my good friend who grew up around wickens and is spirtually sensitive sees some of the same things at the same time that i do. i mean if this didnt happen several times and almost always if he sees it i see it or vice versa.
on another side note, i am diagnosed with bi-polar I, so that may have a part in some parts of this, maybe just happening on the more manic side of things. not entirely sure just 20 years old and trying to figure this whole thing out still haha.

 

[Bob P]

Psychedelics reveal the background of surroundings. The background jumble of the mind clears up. I believe spirits exist although I cannot explain or define them. Our awareness is our spirit.
It seems that plant materials are able to reveal any spirits which may be in the background (which we normally don’t take notice of). Synthetics don’t reveal spirits as easily unless there are other factors involved (e.g., involvement with the occult).
There may be several directions to take psychedelics – shamanism or there are also a surprising number of Christian denominations which use psychedelics as a sacrament. Personally, I took the Christian route, so I will emphasize a Christian response.
Some people may prefer to be with God / Jesus & some may not. Be aware, spirits are tricky. Satan can transform himself into an angel of light & his servants into ministers of righteousness. Jesus is the only one I can trust to keep away unwanted spirits (if we call on Jesus). I trust the Bible, but use discernment; I don't trust the church & I especially don't trust Christian television.
Some people try to earn their way to heaven. Doing good is encouraged but doesn’t have the power to save us. Asking does have this power. When we ask forgiveness for our sins, all sins, past, present, & future will be forgiven & God will not look at our sins against us.

 

[justinsayno]

We can say "sleep paralysis" and that says something about the state you're in, but says nothing why it has to be a little gray or brown gnome perceived as a being of great evil committing it as a malicious act.

Our cultural background / beliefs will shape the experience.
For example i had a very intense and vivid moment of sleep paralysis the other day, I didn't see a gnome, I thought I was being burgled by some guy in a tracksuit.

 

[zn13bt]

ok just to clarify, i didnt see them on drugs, it happened about 2 or 3 weeks after the heavy acid dose for the first time, and is happening more regularly now even though ive been goin easy on myself since that experience.. xD
the other part that makes me wonder is my good friend who grew up around wickens and is spirtually sensitive sees some of the same things at the same time that i do. i mean if this didnt happen several times and almost always if he sees it i see it or vice versa.
on another side note, i am diagnosed with bi-polar I, so that may have a part in some parts of this, maybe just happening on the more manic side of things. not entirely sure just 20 years old and trying to figure this whole thing out still haha.

Well it sounds these things haven't been troubling you too much, even if they are a bit unfamiliar for you. In my experience it's best to keep a relaxed attitude about spirit contacts and not get too obsessed with definitively proving or disproving them, because a lot of this stuff is pretty subjective and you'll just drive yourself crazy. It helps to keep a journal of your experiences as they happen, as well as to check them out with other people who are sensitive like you've been doing with your friend. Over time you'll gain a sense of what's worth paying attention to and what's more likely to be just your own imaginings.

 

[I<3Hallucinogens]

Well it sounds these things haven't been troubling you too much, even if they are a bit unfamiliar for you. In my experience it's best to keep a relaxed attitude about spirit contacts and not get too obsessed with definitively proving or disproving them, because a lot of this stuff is pretty subjective and you'll just drive yourself crazy. It helps to keep a journal of your experiences as they happen, as well as to check them out with other people who are sensitive like you've been doing with your friend. Over time you'll gain a sense of what's worth paying attention to and what's more likely to be just your own imaginings.

its funny you say that, my sensitive friend is saying the exact same thing. and i mean i dont really have a problem with them, it is just very weird to be seeing things and having weird things happen around you out of nowhere. i always kinda knew/thought that they existed, but the closest i could get to seeing them was on those cheesy paranormal shows. now i dont need the shows for that any more i guess.. xD

 

[al-laddin]

Unfortunatly western science is dogmatic in its own right and does not allow to even begin to speculate on whether paranormal phenomena exists....by turning to science you lose before evidence can even be presented...unfortunatly most of the evidence for such things is anecdotal ....regardless of how sound of mind or logically minded an individual is there are certain things one may experience that simply do not fit into the scientific paradigm.

That being said....YES without a shadow of a doubt psychedleics do open you up to contact with entities . Unfortunatly sanity and insanity is a very fine line between it as does the paranormal (ghosts and esp) and delusional. Its almost as if the same door you open to release this phenomena may also loosten a few screws in the head.

For example ...much of the occult depends on one to have a strong imagination. The imagination is connected to the will...There is actually clues to this in science...such as the fact that those who can picture themselves achieving their goals are the ones that are more likely to achieve them....So for dedicated occultists it probably becomes increasingly more difficult to differtiate ones imagination than true reality.....or is true reality based on ones imagination in the first place...something to think about......but not too hard

 

[turnupboss]

when im on shrooms i feel like i truly become a spirit with spiritual powers. on lsd it feels a lot less spiritual but with alien like visuals and less thoughts compared to shrooms. i once heard on lsd one may meet god but on shrooms one may become a god. i find everybody elses post above mine very interesting and well said. i love bluelight.

 

[Freon]

High dose DXM always gives me the feeling I'm not alone in my house. People think they can just explain these things away logically but nobody knows anything. We all know just as much as the next guy.

 

[al-laddin]

when im on shrooms i feel like i truly become a spirit with spiritual powers. on lsd it feels a lot less spiritual but with alien like visuals and less thoughts compared to shrooms. i once heard on lsd one may meet god but on shrooms one may become a god. i find everybody elses post above mine very interesting and well said. i love bluelight.

I agree with these statements.....very similar to my experience...LSD has a "sober" headspace for me but is very far from normal reality....mushrooms are an all around mind fucker and very spiritual!

 

[St3ve]

High dose DXM always gives me the feeling I'm not alone in my house. People think they can just explain these things away logically but nobody knows anything. We all know just as much as the next guy.

I think they've been able to recreate this sensation by transcranial stimulation of a specific area.

Unfortunatly western science is dogmatic in its own right and does not allow to even begin to speculate on whether paranormal phenomena exists....by turning to science you lose before evidence can even be presented...unfortunatly most of the evidence for such things is anecdotal ....regardless of how sound of mind or logically minded an individual is there are certain things one may experience that simply do not fit into the scientific paradigm.

Science isn't dogmatic in the same sense religions are dogmatic. For instance, the central dogma in biology is that all information is stored in the DNA and follows the path of: DNA->RNA->protein. However, in recent years we've began to understand the importance of epigenetic factors. These don't really fit in with the dogma anymore as they affect a level above DNA. For example, we now have solid evidence that the mental state and health of both parents can affect how their future child will behave, even before copulation has occurred. Similarly, things that happen to the mother during pregnancy can also affect the unborn child. In this sense, dogmas in science are only transient and get "updated" as new evidence presents itself.

There's plenty of psychological studies out there that show how flawed our thinking really is most of the time. Still, once in a while a clever guy comes along to point out the flaws, and we can learn to take those flaws into account. Just because you can't come up with a way to make something fit in a scientific paradigm, doesn't mean it can't!