speedy vrs. mellow

[Transform]

Just out of interest why the thiophene replacement?

Do you mean "why has it appeared on the RC market" or "why did pharmaceutical companies bother investigating it?".

It appeared on the RC market because it was already in mass production for the pharmaceutical industry and the different structure means it's not scheduled anywhere.

I presume pharma companies looked into it because it's a close derivative (indicating similar effects) which was patentable.


I would definitely advise caution with a new mixture but by and large you can extrapolate from similar drugs to avoid relying on gut instinct and trial & error. Like I said, my first port of call is known contraindications between similar drugs, but you're right to be cautious about enzyme inhibition as there are cases where it clearly counts more than I give it credit.

The complexity is pharmacology. It's utterly fascinating IMHO and there are plenty of great books and even some online courses starting to emerge. Recommended!

 

[futura2012]

Just out of interest why the thiophene replacement?
Do you mean "why has it appeared on the RC market" or "why did pharmaceutical companies bother investigating it?".

I meant in terms of if you already have a benzodiazepine why the need for thienodiazepine? I think you have kindly already answered the question. For patent reasons? I dont know much about the pharma industry but I assume that if you discover a new "hexagon shape" for laymens terms you can then patent this?

Whats to stop someone from just drawing random bond line diagrams and making patents?

The idea of holding the specific rights to a specific molecule seem quite a bizarre idea.

So I assume with RCs you can take say a benzo structure, mess with it slightly and then this becomes an unscheduled RC?

Whats the deal in say Uk with this. Can you then start selling it as a "bath salt" with benzo qualities?

 

[Transform]

Yes, to be patentable a drug needs to be a new structure, and to be licensed it needs to be more effective than existing drugs, as well as safe.

Whats to stop someone from just drawing random bond line diagrams and making patents?

Patenting things is realistically too expensive for the average person and the patent must be theoretically sound, although it is not necessary to demonstrate a working model.

So I assume with RCs you can take say a benzo structure, mess with it slightly and then this becomes an unscheduled RC?

Precisely. MPA is a good example of this, where the benzene ring has been replaced with a thiophene ring and suddenly you have a new, legal drug. The NBOMe series use an addition instead of a substitution to achieve the same effect.

Whats the deal in say Uk with this. Can you then start selling it as a "bath salt" with benzo qualities?

Yup. Exactly that has been done with etizolam and pyrazolam, and was done with phenazepam in NZ. Typically though, benzos are not sold so freely as stimulants as they are regarded as less fun (less ££) and more dangerous.

 

[redeyesmj]

MDMA is generally the most stimulating when it is redosed, and after the stoning effect of high doses has worn off. If you are tolerant to the serotonegeric effects then this may also give rise to more stimulation.

Certainly from the dose you are taking I would expect a less stimulating experience so I don't really know what to expect

I used to do alot of meth, but it has been over 5 years since I have done any meth. I wonder if this is the explination for the more speedy effects. This could explain why im more tolerant to serotnegeric effects, I was up for days and im shur I have downreuglated my receptors in the past.