soma?

[Ham-milton]

That's simply not true. With a half-life of 8 hours, and effects coming on in 20-30 minutes, there's no way you have enough meprobamate in you by the time enjoyable effects kick in.

edit: I should add I've used both, and there's a massive difference. Meprobamate is not nearly as enjoyable.

 

[sonic]

Quite a few other muscle-relaxants also work on GABA receptors (Tetrazepam, Baclofen), no?

Yeah, thanks for the clarification. Those meds aren't as common in the U.S. from what I've seen at least. Flexeril, soma, and robaxin seem to be the most muscle relaxers prescribed here.

MobiusDick: Any idea which liver enzyme converts carisoprodol into meprobamate? It'd be interesting to try and induce that enzyme to get more of a recreational effect from soma.

 

[jasoncrest]

Any benzo/GABA-A type effects from Soma (carisoprodol) are because some of it is metabolized into meprobamate. Carisoprodol is di-isopropyl meprobamate. Soma itself works like most non-depolarizing skeletal muscle relaxants. The higher the dose, the more meprobamate is favored as a metabolite.

MobiusDick

Meprobamate has nothing to do with the high that Soma produces.... (at least not much)
Meprobamate by itself is not more enjoyable than benzos; Carisprodol is a lot more euphoric and recreational than Meprobamate or benzos.....

 

[sonic]

So much for that idea then.

 

[Ham-milton]

Meprobamate has nothing to do with the high that Soma produces.... (at least not much)
Meprobamate by itself is not more enjoyable than benzos; Carisprodol is a lot more euphoric and recreational than Meprobamate or benzos.....

Carisoprodol is much better than meprobamate alone. Meprobmate pretty much blows in comparison.

 

[MobiusDick]

That's simply not true. With a half-life of 8 hours, and effects coming on in 20-30 minutes, there's no way you have enough meprobamate in you by the time enjoyable effects kick in.

edit: I should add I've used both, and there's a massive difference. Meprobamate is not nearly as enjoyable.

20-30 minutes is not an unreasonable amount of time for an oral drug to get converted by first pass metabolism through the liver to meprobamate depending on bioavailability. We are talking about Phase I reactions that are especially short (dealkylation.) The CYP450 enzymes do not take extensive amounts of time to do this. The addiction potential of Soma putatively lies in its conversion to meprobamate, and there are examples of high dose users (One in Pub-Med who was taking 30 Soma a day for 3 weeks and had severe hallucinatory withdrawals.) who had high levels of meprobamate in their system

I am just the opposite as far as my subjective feelings about Miltown and Equanil, and feel that meprobamate, the first true anxiolytic which ruled the prescription bottles in the period between barbiturates and benzodiazepines, is far superior to carisoprodol. I have used both extensively, and I only like Soma when I truly need a muscle relaxer, not a buzz.

Mobi

Also, do not confuse elimination half-life with things related to duration of action or effective half-life.

 

[MobiusDick]

Quite a few other muscle-relaxants also work on GABA receptors (Tetrazepam, Baclofen), no?

Baclofen works on GABA-B, but yes, any benzodiazepines like diazepam, desmethyldiazepam and any others that are given as an SMR do work on omega/GABA-A receptors, but this is not their main mechanism of action for muscle relaxation.

Mobi

 

[Ham-milton]

I can't get the chart to work well here, but this is the explanation of the chart and the study it was taken from (taken from rxlist.com):

Pharmacokinetics

The pharmacokinetics of carisoprodol and its metabolite meprobamate were studied in a crossover study of 24 healthy subjects (12 male and 12 female) who received single doses of 250 mg and 350 mg SOMA (see Table 2). The exposure of carisoprodol and meprobamate was dose proportional between the 250 mg and 350 mg doses. The Cmax of meprobamate was 2.5 ± 0.5 ug/mL (mean ± SD) after administration of a single 350 mg dose of SOMA, which is approximately 30% of the Cmax of meprobamate (approximately 8 ug/mL) after administration of a single 400 mg dose of meprobamate.

Simply put, Meprobamate is not the primary source of Carisoprodol's recreational value.

20-30 minutes is not an unreasonable amount of time for an oral drug to get converted by first pass metabolism through the liver to meprobamate depending on bioavailability. We are talking about Phase I reactions that are especially short (dealkylation.) The CYP450 enzymes do not take extensive amounts of time to do this. The addiction potential of Soma putatively lies in its conversion to meprobamate, and there are examples of high dose users (One in Pub-Med who was taking 30 Soma a day for 3 weeks and had severe hallucinatory withdrawals.) who had high levels of meprobamate in their system

Well, sure, 30 minutes would be plenty of time. In this case, though, it's not. Meprobamate doesn't even come on that fast. Carisoprodol has a halflife of 8 hours. So in 30 minutes, maybe 6% of that half will be converted. That'd mean that 72mg (or would that be 36mg?) would have been metabolized out of a 1200mg dose. Even if we were to assume 100% of Carisoprodol is metabolized into meprobamate, which it isn't, that's not much at all. Take into account that Meprobamate is typically dosed at 600 to 3600mgs, there's just no way.

The CYP450 enzymes do not take extensive amounts of time to do this.

Well, in this case they do.

The addiction potential of Soma putatively lies in its conversion to meprobamate, and there are examples of high dose users (One in Pub-Med who was taking 30 Soma a day for 3 weeks and had severe hallucinatory withdrawals.) who had high levels of meprobamate in their system

Again, that's just not backed by any evidence. I realize it's said over and over again, but the data says it isn't true. And of course the guy had high levels of meprobamate in his system. With 30-40% being metabolized into Meprobamate, of course it's going to build up with ultra-high doses over an extensive period. And there's no way to say that it was the meprobamate causing the withdrawal effects and not the carisoprodol he would have had in his system at even higher levels.

And I don't know how you can claim that it's the first true anxiolytic. In effects it differs from barbs, but they have the same mechanism of action, and there are barbs without tons of sedation. Butalbital comes to mind. Though I haven't checked if that was on the market before of after meprobamate.

 

[Psych0naut]

Soma's probably the best prescribed depressant around. Better than benzos, better than barbs, better than EtOH, better than.. Well, everything.

It's better than meprobamate, even, imho.

I preffer Rohypnol over Soma, and I preffer GHB/GBL over Soma for shure, Soma can't even compete with those, nor with the short acting barbiturates probaply, though I wouldn't know, since I never have taken any short acting barbies.

I've not has triazolam, but clonazepam is pretty lame.

I'd love some right now, but it doesn't compare to Soma.

I regard Rivotril taken orally, and on it's own as lame as well, same goes for any benzo orally, except for Rohypnol. But when you IM/IV Rivotril, it's a whole different level :D

 

[Ham-milton]

Benzos are only good if you're looking to get drunk and forget what you've done. Soma is a lot more than that.

And I'd put it over short acting barbs as well. If you haven't had any, you really can't say, no? I've only had one short acting one, I think one of the hexitals, in the hospital, but i had some benzos already, though I didn't notice them. I'd have to get my medical records, though.

I'd take GHB over carisoprodol, though.

Besides potentially methaqualone (which most of us will likely never see) I can't think of anything I'd take over GHB..

 

[sonic]

Benzos are only good if you're looking to get drunk and forget what you've done. Soma is a lot more than that.

I disagree, although the effects of benzos are highly subjective. Personally I find that benzos don't make me feel drunk/impaired and they only give me serious amnesia in really high doses. I find some benzos such as clonazepam and diazepam to be somewhat euphoric and recreational. I also suffer from anxiety, so I get a lot out of benzos. I'd take almost any benzo (with a few exceptions) over soma given the choice.

 

[Ham-milton]

See, I've never noticed any euphoria except in doses where I'm bound to forget everything. Though I only have a lot of experience with diazepam, clonzapam and lorazepam. If I had access to alprazolam frequently, I might feel a bit different.

 

[DirtyMike]

I ate 4 soma's and drank a whole bottle of wine. I ended up shitting my pants and waking up in my neighbors bushes.

Yeah.. I really shit my pants.

 

[Ham-milton]

You know, I think that might be something you just don't tell people... LOL

 

[DirtyMike]

You know, I think that might be something you just don't tell people... LOL

I have no shame haha. Everyone shits there pants once in a while... I hope... oh man...

 

[sonic]

Gotta love the anonymity of the internet.

 

[Psych0naut]

I have no shame haha. Everyone shits there pants once in a while... I hope... oh man...

You made me spit out my food in a burst of a laughter. Serious, you made my day :D

 

[MobiusDick]

SMRs

I am not saying there is no CNS potentiation from Soma from its (Skeletal Muscle Relaxant) SMR effects or other metabolites. With all the different CYP450 enzymes there are large numbers of metabolites that may have extremely strong effective actions. For example, even though coffee has less caffeine that tea, coffee has some potent hypoxanthines that putatively make it a lot stronger than tea. Soma does have more (putatively active) metabolites than meprobamate, and any of these could be the difference.

But as far as the psychopharmaphenomenology (i.e, the subjective way a drug makes you feel), it is really an individual thing. I cannot say that you are wrong in liking carisoprodol more than meprobamate, just as you cannot say I am incorrect in liking meprobamate more than carisoprodol. The subjective effects of what one feels about a drug are why so much addictionology refers to a "drug of choice."

What I can say though is that in ex vivo studies on muscle tissue, Soma works by similar mechanism of action as spasmolytic non-depolarizing SMRs (with the exception the hydantoins like dantrolene. Also, an example of a depolarizing SMR would be succinylcholine, and a non-spasmolytic non-depolarizing SMR would be curare.)

But the reason that only Alabama in the US (and possibly Oregon. They were considering it, but I am not sure of the current status) has made Soma a controlled substance (Schedule IV in AL.) is because it is not self-administered in animal models of addiction, but meprobamate is. But one thing that does support your assertion is that meprobamate will substitute for benzodiazepines in animal models (and Soma, since it is not self-administered, will not.) But this is not necessarily proof that meprobamate is not the main CNS euphorigenic aspect of Soma, because, for example, if the SMR effects of Soma caused the animal too much ataxia to get up and press the lever as the meprobamate began to work, then the substitution effect would not be observed.

The bottom line though is we each like what we like. (Or as Popeye would say "I likes what I likes!"

MobiusDick

 

[_psychoBone_]

shat your pants !!!!!!!!!! :-/)))))) hhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa

Once i slipped in a pile of dog-sh!t and landed on my ass in it !!

Though i was probably 12 at the time !!

BTW - I go to see my GP 2day - and I was going to try for Tramadol but as I take bupropion It came up with quite a conflict - And seisure is no joke !! - So based on many threads I will try for Carisoprodol or "soma" in the US !!

THX - ................................... *i hope, cough !!

 

[Pillthrill]

I just got some soma. I took one and had nothing but a heavy feeling in my body none of the drunk feeling I get with Xanax...normal? Up the dose? I just don't know what to exspect or how much to take.