• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet

Social phobia/anxiety and drugs/meds [long]

these types of threads always confuse me somewhat...some say THIS works, other say THAT works etc etc...all i can say is what i see first hand from people i know...of the people that have diagnosed social anxiety and depression, the majority of them seem to be quite dissatisfied with yer typical meds and therapy...2 of them have been going to CBT and medicating for years to no true success...they have always told me rec drugs is what helped them the most, whether it be alchohol or opiods..these people seriously want relief and thru tons of differet scribed meds and the recomended therapy they havent recived it... im not saying this works or it doesnt, im just going by what ive seen...

GHB always helped me with no real side effects...opiods as well...
 
I have more annoying problem-panic attacks/agoraphobia, xanax helps best, but no doctor will give it to me long term. Wellbutrin and 5-htp help the best without addiction.
 
I take cloanazepam, alprozolam, zyprexa, celexa & prozac but still no work on my phobias. I don't know what to tell to my doctor cause it's not working. They say it takes time, well time have passed and I have gained 12++kg. That ain't fun. What should I tell to my doctor they will say it's works and so on but they don't. I'm in mental institution right now so sorry if I don't respond so soon.
 
Phobias are not treated with drugs. Anyone who says they are doesn't know what they are talking about.
 
I suffer from social phobia and excercise makes me feel better about myself which makes me want to talk to people more.

Honestyl, if you need a drug to solve a problem in your life, you should really REALLY consider otherwise. Do you wanna take a drug tyhe rest of your life just so you can talk to people?

Im sorry to say, but socialising is over-rated anyways. 99.9% of humans are idiots and you feel better off not talking to them then you do when you talk to them.

If you cant heal it 'naturally', your doomed for a life of pain. Sorry, but its the truth. Pills dont fix problems, you gotta fix your brain, with, guess what, YOUR BRAIN!!
 
The only thing that I've found to work for social anxiety is opiates. My tolerance is way too high to have experienced whether tramadol actually works. Its unfortunate that I have to self medicate. Its not a healthy thing. But it works. What a catch 22.
 
cire113 said:
Pills id' say mask and cover up better than they fix

Yeah, but you still feel better? :)

Also, are the benefits/things you learn about socialization from SSRIs state-dependent? I was thinking about trying CBT, while tapering from SSRIs, but would that do any good (I don't wanna go off SSRIs before I start seeing benefits from CBT, but if I do 7 mos CBT and then stop SSRIs, will I still see the benefits?).

Also, how do you know who's a good person to see for CBT? I assume it's a lengthy process, so you can't just look at results to tell if they're good, and even so, you have no other docs to compare the results too, since he's your 1st.

Is there anyplace on the web I can find someone reputable who does CBT in my area?

I've been taking benzos, and now, as I taper off, my anxiety is worse than before. SSRIs used to mostly control it, but even ON SSRIs I feel about as bad as before the SSRIs (although I've learned more about handling/controlling it).

I'm just sick to death of all this (med) shit, and want to fix it.
 
blase deviant: i'd check out dr-bob.org, the "psycho babble" general message board is always loaded with all kinds of medication/psychotherapy questions and answers. i often see people posting to ask for doctor or therapist recommendations in their area, and the website draws a large enough crowd that most of the time people get a fair amount of honest results. check it out if you haven't already...
dr-bob.org
 
i posted a sentance about this before, but now i actually read all the posts

yeah, exercise makes you feel better in general, but guess what?
-when you are clinically depressed you can't even get out of bed,
-when you have agoraphobia, you can't even stand on your porch and smoke without feeling overwhelming fear and dread,
-ever had a panic attack? you feel like you can't breathe, your heart races, you get cold and hot, you get extremely scared, feel crazy like you are losing touch with reality
--one of you exercise people tell me how you go out and exercise or just "make your self go hang with friends" in this state.
-And some of you seem to think everything can be solved by talking-that is f-ing ridiculas some thing are caused by screwed up brain chemistry, you need meds for those things all talking will do is help you learn to cope with your problems a little better, not solve them
--alot of mental problems can be solved with therapy, but some things do require meds. I went to therapy, she explained to me why i was having panic attacks, but that didn't help. I read about CBT, i guess it might work for some people, but not in my case, as my problems were caused by an overwhelming amount of stress factors that were beyond my control. I lost my coping skills because terrible things kept happening to me, and now i can't tell myself everything will be okay, cuz experience has shown that it won't. I internalized everything for a long time, then i started having panic attacks randomly. now that some stress is gone it's not as bad, but i still need meds

--I DO NOT RECCOMEND EFFEXOR, it is highly addictive, and the worst anti depressant to w/d from
-MAOI's are pretty dangerous with all the food and drug restrictios
-I'm a huge fan of wellbutrin, 5-htp and AS NEEDED benzos, it's hard to resist the urge to abuse them though. Xanax has the best effect, but is short acting and more likely to cause dependance and rebound anxiety than other benzos. when you actually feel better then go out and exercise
-Also, even though things like alcohol, opiates, ghb will mahe you feel better at the time, it just increases your anxiety when you are sober(i'm not one to talk, i know this and i still do it)-
 
I recommend Effexor and tramadol out of the easy to procure meds. Then you have benzos and opiates that are less easy to obtain.
 
Alot of this labeling/diagnosing seems to me to be reinforcing mental health problems as opposed to helping to alievate them. Just my opinion, I'm not a doctor. But I have experienced a period of my life that alot of doctors would have referred to as moderate depression. I had a psych. reccomend anti-depressents to me and I declined. I eliminated the pattern of depression from my life by making a life change (moving, basically starting over with new people, and going to college) and looking foward.

Obviously I understand that this doesn't work for everyone or isn't practical for everyone, but I believe from personal experience that alot of this stuff can be solved best by being proactive and taking natural solutions that provide lasting impact as opposed to taking drugs to mask them.

This is just my personal experience, but maybe consider trying to work some of this stuff out in your head or via therapy before trying even more drugs. Alot of the ones you listed are pretty damn hardcore, if Xanax doesn't ease your anxiety I don't know what would, really, as far as drugs go.
 
^^i agree, i know of way too many people that arent even 20 years old and they take more scripts than my dad does..im not saying some shouldnt be on certain drugs but i think some are just overboard to the extreme....

we are so quick these days to go to a doc to get scripted sumthing..evryone goes thru depression, but most seem tomake it out without drugs...why is that??is it chemically related or situational?is a messy issue.
 
BilZ0r said:
^ Pills "fix" problems for lots of people.

Let me rephrase that:

Pills TREAT problems for lots of people. But on their own, they rarely offer a lasting CURE :\

The thing with fear is if you avoid what you fear - your fears will get stronger.

If you confront your fears progressively - you will build confidence - the opposite of fear.

As you get more experience and social skills under your belt, you relax more and do even better. If you keep at it long enough, one day, you will realise you are over it - a great day indeed.

The power to conquer fear rests in your hands - in YOUR ACTIONS.

I should practice what I preach ;)
 
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A lot of good posts here.

I agree about exercise: it makes you feel good about yourself, gets your blood circulating -- I do it in the morning, and uninhibitivly and vigerously dance in the evenings.

Everyone should take B-vitamines with C and drink only one cup of coffee per day.

Alcohol and pot help.

The psychiatric labeling damns you to the mental health hell by calling attention to your faults.

Phobias, depression, obsessive-compulsive, panic attacks, agoraphobia are caused by irrational thought. I have a friend who suffers from it. She likes it when I tell her to calm down.

However, many people are logically depressed and paranoid after certain events. You should be able to work it out, get over it and move on, evolve, mature.

Maybe some LSD would clear those cobwebs out of your mind?
 
From benzo.org.uk

Thie following quote is from the website which is the recognized "bible" website upon benzodiazepine usage.
This is only touching on the tip of the iceberg of what these drugs do including one of the most serious side effects which be "emotional blunting". Listen Dear ones, please don't dig yourself deeper than that what surface, you might be already in. There be plenty of threads about the horror of benzodiazepine usage, & also withdrawal, (including Benzodiazepine withdrawal(Holy mother of God!)), So please look after yourselves.I have been to hell and back with benzodiazepines and I would not wish any of the nightmares that I have experienced upon anyone. My heart goes to all that need it.
Peace and blessings,

Best wishes.
:)
O.

P.S. Paradoxically, atm there is a program on T.V. about a lady suffering from the horrors of sudden drug withdrawal, and they are painting a much darker picture than what I am just saying.
2.5.4 Dependence

Dependence on benzodiazepine hypnotics can develop if the drugs are taken regularly for several weeks.[4] Many long term users are reluctant to withdraw the drugs because of rebound insomnia. Withdrawal from benzodiazepine hypnotics in dependent users may also give rise to anxiety and other typical withdrawal symptoms.[31-35]

2.5.5 Respiratory Depression

Benzodiazepines can cause respiratory depression and decrease the ventilatory response to hypercapnia[34] and increase hypopnoeic episodes during; sleep.[35] Like other drugs which depress respiration they should be avoided in patients with severe chronic obstructive airways disease.

2.6 Choice of Benzodiazepine Hypnotic

For an hypnotic drug, a rapid onset combined with a medium duration of action is usually desirable. Temazepam, loprazolam and lormetazepam meet these criteria (Table II). Temazepam tablets act as rapidly as when the drug is administered in soft gelatine capsules. The tablets also have less abuse potential and can be cut in half to minimise dosage.

Rapidly eliminated benzodiazepines, such as triazolam, can impair memory the next day,[26,28] give rise to daytime anxiety,[25] and probably carry a greater dependence risk.[1] Oxazepam is not recommended as it has a relatively slow onset of action. Nitrazepam is only slowly eliminated. Diazepam acts rapidly and, although slowly eliminated, does not have a prolonged action when used in single doses.

Doses should be minimised to avoid residual effects (especially important for drivers, airline pilots, and machinery operators) and the patient should be warned about additive effects with alcohol and other depressants. Recommended dosage schedules are shown in Table II.

2.6.1 The Elderly

The elderly are especially vulnerable to adverse effects of hypnotic drugs. Rates of metabolism of benzodiazepines that are oxidised (diazepam, nitrazepam) decline with age.[35,36] Elderly patients are also more susceptible to CNS depression and may develop confusional states and ataxia, leading to falls and fractures.[37] They are sensitive to respiratory depression and prone to sleep apnoea and other sleep disorders.[38]

However, insomnia is particularly common in this age group and regular hypnotics may sometimes be indicated if sleep disturbance is distressing. Temazepam, lormetazepam and loprazolam (which do not have pharmacologically active metabolites) remain suitable choices. but dosage should be adjusted, usually to half the recommended adult dose.

2.6.2 The Young

Hypnotics are generally contraindicated for children. Sedative antihistamines are commonly used if sedation is required, but a single dose of a benzodiazepine, with suitable dosage reduction, may be more effective.

2.6.3 Pregnancy and Lactation

Regular use of hypnotics in pregnancy is contraindicated as the drugs readily traverse the placenta. Intermittent doses of relatively rapidly eliminated benzodiazepines have been shown to be safe during breastfeeding.

2.6.4 Disease States

Benzodiazepines are rarely helpful in insomnia due to organic disease and may depress respiration in chronic pulmonary disease. However, in terminal conditions, the possibility of drug dependence becomes less important and regular use of hypnotics should not be denied if they provide symptomatic relief.

2.6.5 Withdrawal of Benzodiazepine Hypnotics

Many patients who have taken benzodiazepine hypnotics nightly for years can have the drugs withdrawn successfully (see section 3.5.2). Often there is surprisingly little sleep disturbance if withdrawal is carried out sufficiently slowly. Many patients find they actually sleep better without the drugs. The use of liquid preparations of temazepam, nitrazepam or diazepam facilitates small dosage reductions. However, unmotivated patients (often elderly patients who have taken hypnotics for years) should not be forced to withdraw these agents against their will simply because they are dependent. Long term prescriptions (in minimal dosage) are sometimes necessary.

2.6.6 Alternatives to Benzodiazepines

Benzodiazepines compare favourably with other hypnotics in efficacy and safety. They have fewer adverse effects than chlormethiazole and chloral derivatives and are more efficacious than sedative antihistamines.[4] Zopiclone, which has a similar mechanism of action, is expensive and is not free of dependence liability and other adverse effects.[39,40] Although antidepressants and antipsychotics may improve sleep in patients with depression or psychosis, they are more toxic than benzodiazepines and should not be used as general hypnotics, but reserved for patients with disorders for which these drugs are specifically indicated.

3. Rational Use of Benzodiazepines for Anxiety

Official recommendations on the use of benzodiazepines in anxiety are similar to those for insomnia. The UK Committee on Safety of Medicines[2] advised that they 'are indicated for the short term relief (2-4 weeks only) of anxiety that is severe, disabling or causing unacceptable distress'. To a considerable extent this advice appears to have been heeded and yearly prescriptions for benzodiazepine anxiolytics have decreased in the UK from a peak of 18 million in 1978 to less than 10 million at present. There is no doubt that benzodiazepines can be highly efficacious in anxiety. The indications for their rational use in different types of anxiety disorders have become clearer in recent years. [41,42]

3.1 Prevalence of Anxiety

Anxiety symptoms are common in the general population. Uhlenuth et al.[43] estimated the prevalence of generalised anxiety disorder among US adults to be 6.4%, while another 3.5% experienced panic, agoraphobia and other phobias. Prevalence (often elderly patients who have taken hypnotics for years) should not be forced to withdraw these agents against their will simply because they are dependent. Long term prescriptions (in minimal dosage) are sometimes necessary.

3.2 Classification of Anxiety

There is still some controversy about how anxiety states should be classified. Anxiety disorders recognised on the DSM-III-R criteria [45] include generalised anxiety disorder, panic disorder, agoraphobic disorder, social phobia, simple phobia and post-traumatic stress disorder. Generalised anxiety is the most common of the disorders, but Tyrer [46,47] stresses the considerable overlap of symptoms between different anxiety disorders, as well as the co-occurrence of depressive symptoms. He argues for a simple descriptive term, the generalised neurotic syndrome, to encompass most categories.

Acute stress reactions and post-traumatic stress disorder, which may persist as adjustment disorders, are clearly precipitated by major life events, but the reasons for anxiety in generalised anxiety disorder, panic and phobias is usually not known.[47] Vulnerability to stress may be linked with genetic factors[48] and environmental influences. Most patients with anxiety symptoms have a long history of high anxiety levels going back to childhood.

Management of anxiety conditions, however classified or caused, usually calls for nondrug measures that may range from simple counselling to specific psychological techniques. The latter may include anxiety management training, behaviour or cognitive therapy. Drug treatment may also be indicated and the range of effective drugs includes benzodiazepines, antidepressants, antipsychotics and (ß-blockers, each with its own advantages, disadvantages and specific indications.[47] Possible alternatives include buspirone and some newer anxiolytics likely to be introduced soon (alpidem, suriclone and others).[49,50]

3.3 Effects of Benzodiazepines on Anxiety

Benzodiazepines are potent anxiolytic agents and are effective both in otherwise-healthy patients undergoing stress and in anxious patients. Anxiolytic effects are exerted in doses that cause minimal sedation, although the hypnotic, muscular relaxant and perhaps amnesic actions may all contribute to relief of associated tension and insomnia. The relatively selective effect on anxiety is probably related to the fact that benzodiazepines suppress activity in many limbic and other brain areas involved in anxiogenesis, including the septal area, amygdala, hippocampus, hypothalamus, locus coeruleus and raphé nuclei. They also decrease the turnover of acetylcholine, norepinephrine (noradrenaline), serotonin (5-hydroxy-tryptamine, 5-HT) and dopamine in these areas.[51] Suppression of noradrenergic and/or serotonergic pathways appears to be of particular importance in relation to anxiolytic effects.

The major clinical advantage of benzodiazepines as anxiolytics is the rapid onset of action, usually apparent after a single dose. This immediate effect contrasts with the delayed anxiolytic effects of antidepressants, buspirone and psychological treatments. In addition, benzodiazepines are relatively non-toxic and safer than most of the alternative drugs. Their immediate efficacy and safety combine to make benzodiazepines the drugs of first choice for rapid relief of anxiety that is unacceptably distressing, whatever the cause.

As in insomnia, benzodiazepines provide only symptomatic treatment for anxiety; they do not cure the underlying disorder. Nevertheless they can provide valuable short term cover, allowing time for more specific treatments to take effect, and can alleviate exacerbations of anxiety which are often self-limiting.

3.4 Disadvantages of Benzodiazepine Anxiolytics

3.4.1 Tolerance

Tolerance to the anxiolytic effects of benzodiazepines seems to develop more slowly and less completely than to the hypnotic effects. There is, however, little evidence that they retain their effectiveness after 4 months of regular treatment.[52,53] While some studies indicate that anxiolytic effects are maintained for at least 22 weeks in chronic anxiety states,[54] clinical observations of long term recipients of these agents suggest that the prolonged benzodiazepine use over years does little to control and may even aggravate anxiety states.[55]

The question remains controversial.[44,56] but there is general agreement that benzodiazepine use in most anxiety states should be limited where possible to short term (ideally not more than 4 weeks) or intermittent courses.[2,41,42,47]
 
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Tongue said:
..evryone goes thru depression, but most seem tomake it out without drugs...why is that??

I'm yet to finish reading through this thread, so if this point's been made, I guess I'll be ticking the 'delete' box pretty soon.

Please don't take this as any form of personal attack.. I've read a lot of your posts and you come across as a decent, intelligent person.

But (!) - "everyone goes thru depression"?!?! WTF? "Everyone" goes through sadness/despondency/grief at points in their lives, yes.. but depression? No frickin' way. Anyone who's had genuine (diagnosed) clinical/major depression will back me up here.. feeling 'down', even for extended periods, is a "normal' (as much as I f'n hate that word) part of the human experience.. but if you're going through genuine depression, you'll fucking well know about it, and it's most likely that without professional help (including, more often than not, drugs) the only other way you're going to "make it out", even if it takes years for it to eventuate, is via suicide.

Sorry for ranting.. it just shits me intolerably when I see the term 'depression' being thrown around as if it carries no more weight than being 'sad' or 'melancholy'..
 
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