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Social expiriment: NYC

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cainnabelspawn

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Oct 16, 2005
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So I'm in NYC for a few days, and I decide that I'm gonna make a determined effort to talk to as many strangers as possible, just to gauge people's reactions to a friendly stranger in a city where everyone keeps to themselves...

The results? If I had to sum up everyone's reactions in one word, it would be 'suprised'. I noticed after awhile that I was actually interfering with something that every New Yorker was activley doing, I'll call it 'isolating'. Everyone was making an effort to keep to themselves, to look straight ahead, to not touch each other on the subway, etc... And I came and disrupted that. Their suprise led to many different reactions; mostly short answers with a quick withdrawl back into their 'isolating' state; a few, if the circumstances were right, would open right up and talk in detal about their lives; some completley ignored me... one ignorer actually got aggressive after I made several attempts at talking to him about his photography equipment.

Has anyone else noticed this? Why do people behave this way? (I have my ideas but I want to hear yours, especially you city-dwellers)
 
When two people talk, there is a certain social balance that must be kept, have you ever talked to someone who was really really interested in you for no reason? When two people engage each other, they must be mutually interested in the other person.

For the most part I feel you on the whole isolation part, but I dont think its specifically isolated in the bigger citys. I think its just the majority of people are so boring that there's really nothing going on.
 
I think you are failing to appreciate the way advertising has damaged purely social interaction. In today's world, a huge percentage of the communications from strangers that people experience are attempts to solicit from or sell to them. From billboards to panhandlers to kids selling magazine subscriptions to the ads in magazines to tv commercials.

After a while, you just get sick of being "sold" all the time. It's like, "Just leave me the fuck alone, I don't want to give you my shit, I don't want to buy your shit." Have you ever had a stranger start talking to you and you start to feel pretty cool because this person was drawn to socialize with you, and aftera few minutes they turn it into some kind of solicitation and you like, "Goddammit, I should have known..."

Anyway, I think people hate the fundamental dishonesty and power-control aspect of sale-related communications and are just fucking sick of it, and have learned through experience that if some one starts talking to you for no reason, they probably want something from you. So these people learn to shut it down at the outset.

It's just one insidious aspect of the rampant commercialism in modern society.

~psychoblast~
 
My honest opinion is: people are not ideally suited for living in cramped, high-pressure urban conditions. Sure, we can pull it off, but I don't think it's what we were made for. We put up a series of barriers that make the environment easier to deal with, such as avoiding eye contact, not speaking, and basically pretending that the people around you don't exist.

Talking to someone disrupts this barrier, and forces strangers to deal with each other as human beings. Not everybody wants to do that, as in my op, it's much harder than ignoring people.
 
In such a big city like nyc, it would be impossible to take an interest in every person that passes you by. So there are not really any expectations of social interaction while you're walking down the street. The anonymity of it means that these people are almost in private, which may be why you said you felt like you were interupting something they were doing. They're off in their own little world, thinking about their life and their problems while letting everyone else do the same. You start talking to them and all of a sudden there's all these social expectations that they now are supposed to adhere to and it probably throws them a little. That, and they don;t want to get mugged. =D
 
I've lived in NYC for about 8 years and I can tell you that a huge part of it is fear of being beat up, mugged, killed, whatever else. A lot of crazy shit happens to people and you always hear about it on the news or from somebody you know. The problem is that people who tend to not keep to themselves are the same people who you would expect to mug you, hurt you in some way, try to sell you something, or ask you for money. The whole point is to blend in and draw as little attention to yourself as possible so as to avoid the aforementioned situations.

An interesting point is that because NYC is so culturally diverse it is not the clothes, style or appearance that draws a typical New Yorkers attention. It’s a persons actions. If you live in NY chances are you've pretty much come across every type of person that you can think of. Commuting to school or work on the subway, you might be sharing a car with a millionaire, some business people, a couple of punks, hippies, transsexuals, a bum, Hassidic Jews, thugs, skinheads, Asians, and Arabs all at the same time. I mean are YOU going to go ahead and start talking to them all? This brings me to my next point... People are a lot more racist then they like to admit ... as somebody who immigrated to this country I have witnessed this first hand.

Also, there is a whole shitload of immigrants in NYC...I haven't been to many places but I dont think there is that many anywhere else. I don't know for sure but I would go as far as to say that the majority of people who come into this country come into NYC.
 
i live in a small city and the behavior is just the same.

i think people behave this way not only because they are living in big cities but because they have lost touch with their inner-self...

this is the result of their reality being completely raped by the system...

we are being taught to study hard and become "succesfull" and shit, but none of that brings true happiness... the system is designed to keep us in a state of unhappiness and fear.

the system controls what we think and what we do in life, and so you become a robot that behaves like you have just described.

ones you are a robot of the system, chances are small you will ever become a "real" human being again. i was once a robot myself so i know what it's like, psychedelic drugs healed a big part of the damage done by conditioning done to me by my parents and society.


for more information: read this
 
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Great Thread!

It's pretty much the same thing here in Miami, i've been to NYC before and noticed this. Actually come to think of it, any city with a significant population i've been to is like this. When I go to really small towns though, such ass places in the mountains in North Carolina, or South Carolina, people are much more friendly and everyone says hello and asks you how you are doing. I'm not sue why this happens in big cities, but I don't have a problem talking to anyone, anytime, anyplace. If they have some kind of agenda (trying to get into my pockets, trying to convert me to their religion, etc.) then i'll just politely let them know i'm in a rush but i'd never get aggressive towards someone just for speaking to me, it's that kind of attitude that makes people bitter.
 
I think a lot of it has to do with insecurities. Social pressures and expectations have created this visage of what and how and who you are supposed to be in order to be socially adequate.

I think the isolation is actually a fear of not meeting certain social expectations. When you are talking to someone and are feeling uncomfortable, would you not agree that the thoughts going through your mind fall into categories like "Am I saying the right thing?" or "Will I look/sound stupid if I do/say this?"

And so immediately, a barrier is thrown up and escape tactics are sought.
 
^will not be so in the Sabbath Year, when a man's soul will be counted more precious than a golden wedge of Ophir. whole cities will be cleared to clean and prepare their quarter and dwellings, hospitality and charity among neighbors and strangers: only necessary labors, and all things needful generally without price. Liberty for a year from all debts and bills, so people may seek and serve God for real, and gather in three intervals, setting up their booths, demonstrating skills - and wherever the grounded staff passes, poetry slams, speaking of the minds, teachers as the scholars, and the great and small alike. in nyc your word is the sword that proceeds from your lips: is it worthy? probably not. wherefore beat your ink pens into liquid swordz, and sharpen, quick to hearken, slow to speak, and presence meek.
 
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^^ whoa... sounds a bit like a scary movie I saw the other day.

That or some great and fantastic story MAN has written over time.
 
Ah, the big apple core...

Yes, I would say Newyorkers are cold until you've gotten a formal introduction. It's a coping mechanism for living in such a fast-moving, densely populated place. If privacy in the form of a physical space is hard to come by, people are going to create a "private space" in their own heads, in order to keep sane.

The flip side is, NYC is a pretty safe place as long as you follow a few very basic rules about respecting strangers' 'private space':
* Don't make eye contact with people who aren't talking to you. Eye contact means "I have a problem with you." in NewYorkese.
* Don't point. Period. Pointing means "I'm not a local here and this place hasn't earned my respect yet."
* Don't take up a lot of space, e.g. stretching out your legs or unfolding a map completely.
* Never touch a New Yorker, or his things, on purpose. This means "I'm gonna steal from you." or "I could kick your ass."
* Keep smiling to a minimum. Smiling means "I'm a newbie here. Rip me off."

I found this effect even stronger in cities in Japan. You could morph into a giant robot and tell the most interesting story in the world at the top of your lungs, and most people's behavior wouldn't even register your existence. I never witnessed anyone strike up a conversation with a stranger in Tokyo or Nagoya.

If this bothers you, best stick to more sparsely populated places, where the proximity of (almost) any fellow human being is a something of a treat to most.
 
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^ Yeah, I understand the rules, but I purpously went about breaking some of them. I'd make eye contact and be real friendly and social, and smile alot, too.

See, where I come from, people are seemingly aware of people around them. If your eyes meet someone else's, a greeting is expected. If you don't say anything, that's rude.

I was pretending to be ignorant, but I wanted to see how people would react... I like to study people's behavior, but I didn't really like what the city life was doing to it's inhabitants.
 
we are being taught to study hard and become "succesfull" and shit, but none of that brings true happiness... the system is designed to keep us in a state of unhappiness and fear.
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Ah come on....you really think that is why we avoid the eyes of others on the subway?

Although commercialization does seem to be a factor, I would argue from a naturalistic perspective. Humans (like many primates) use eye contact to establish friendship, dominance, attraction, and fear. A "stare" is not a trivial thing to be given out to anyone...in reality it is a social tool.

Like for example, dogs perceive a direct stare to be an act of aggression (as do many mammals). When you meet a new possibly threatening dog, you always play it safe by avoiding eye contact at first, letting him sniff you for a while...then maybe petting him.

This elaborate "play" can be seen in young mammals playing with each other (especially cats). They will pretend to "not see each other" and then suddenly clash together as if one had just come "out of nowhere."

Turning your back on someone...or looking away, can sometimes be a sign of good will, representing a lack of fear.

Another example is the old guy who works with grizzly bears. His strategy is to convey a "lack of fear" by standing out with the bears in their natural habitat. What he does is...he wades around in the shallow water looking down at his feet and patting the water with his hands. To the bears, his behavior screams "I'm no threat to you. I'm just playing around in the water over here." The strategy works.

I don't see our mass public behavior as being "isolating." Living in large groups is kind of the holy grail of evolution. Humans live in such large groups that we of course encounter lots of people in our day to day lives. Our primate "social graces" are still real, and we still use them. It's not like we behave that way with our families, friends, or loved ones right?
 
protovack said:
I don't see our mass public behavior as being "isolating." Living in large groups is kind of the holy grail of evolution. Humans live in such large groups that we of course encounter lots of people in our day to day lives. Our primate "social graces" are still real, and we still use them. It's not like we behave that way with our families, friends, or loved ones right?
Click to expand...

I grew up in a small city in the south USA; It seems you have lived in a large city for a long time? Maybe that is why we see things a little differentley. (It certainley didn't seem like a holy grail to me =D )
 
^^^
Yes, I'm a city dweller :)

And truthfully, the idea of living out in a small farm town seems a little "isolating" to me. In the city I am always wrapped in a blanket of people. You get used to the steady supply of friendly humans everywhere.

Strange that we could feel the same away about both the city and the country!
 
I really feel that people act this way everywhere.

In small towns, which I have lived in, one finds plenty of people to talk to about nothing.

Typical conversations in the small towns in the south include half ass wishes of wellbeing, questions of one's current condition (where people will be shocked by any response in which you detail your personal life), and idle banter about things such as the weather. No REAL information is exchanged. Same goes for cities, just minus the talking.

That said I had quite a few nice conversations (intelligent and interesting) on a bus ride and subway rid in New York...
 
protovack - The part of your post where you talk about communication between the animals, I totally agree with. So much of conversation is unspoken.

Psy Gleam- You gotta understand that when I meet someone, I try to cut through the mask to the real person underneath, and talk with that person. I find that a lot harder to do with people in the northern cities.
 
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