Small ecstasy use 'harms brain'

Skyline_GTR

Skyline_GTR

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Aug 28, 2002
Messages
4,326
Location
UK
Even small amounts of the illegal drug ecstasy can be harmful to the brains of first time users, researchers say.

The University of Amsterdam team took brain scans and carried out memory tests on 188 people with no history of ecstasy use but at risk in the future.

They repeated the tests 18 months later, and found for the 59 people who had used ecstasy there was evidence of decreased blood flow and memory loss.

Long-term ecstasy use is already known to be harmful.

The class A drug is used by about 500,000 people in the UK, mostly on the club scene.

Lead researcher Maartje de Win said: "We do not know if these effects are transient or permanent.

"Therefore, we cannot conclude that ecstasy, even in small doses, is safe for the brain, and people should be informed of this risk."

Research has shown that long-term or heavy ecstasy use can damage neurons and cause depression, anxiety, confusion, difficulty sleeping and decrease memory.

However, no previous studies have looked at the side-effects of low doses of the drug on first time users.

The study, presented to the annual meeting of the Radiological Society of North America, said there was no evidence of damage to the neurons or alteration to mood and it was unclear whether the effect of early use of the drug was permanent.

Blood provides the brain with energy, and decreased flow can lead to memory loss and attention problems.

Of the people who were tested who had taken ecstasy, the average use was six tablets.

Dr Fabrizio Schifano, professor of pharmacology at the University of Hertfordshire, said it was clear that early use of the drug did have some effect, but what there was not a consensus on was how long that would last.

He said: "We know long-term use has a lasting impact, so it makes sense that damage starts as soon as someone starts to use the drug.

"But we cannot say exactly how much damage is sustained at the start and need more research to be categorical about this."

----------------------------------------------------------------

Small ecstasy use 'harms brain'

BBC News
28 November 2006

Link
 
i dont know what to think now...i just watched Ecstasy rising, yesterday and felt happy to think that i might have not killed my brain yet...but now this article...shit...that sucks dude...
 
Skyline_GTR said:
Even small amounts of the illegal drug ecstasy can be harmful to the brains of first time users, researchers say.


Of the people who were tested who had taken ecstasy, the average use was six tablets.



Small ecstasy use 'harms brain'

BBC News
28 November 2006

Link
Click to expand...


Since when is six tablets considered a small dose?! That sounds like an awful lot of E to me.....a small dose is a single pill or less!!
 
This does not prove that using small amounts of MDMA causes significant harm. It is well known that ecstasy pills often contain other drugs instead or in combination with MDMA. It also does not account for possible harm caused by other drugs that may have been used. Ecstasy pills sometimes contain methamphetamine, which is known to be neurotoxic.

Unless they do a controlled experiment with pure MDMA and make sure the test subjects use no other drugs during the experiment, their findings will not mean much.

I'd also like to see how severe the changes in memory and blood flow to the brain were.

I don't mean to say that I believe MDMA is safe, but I really doubt that just a few uses will cause any significant harm. I've never used it myself, so I can't say from experience.

JollyRoger said:
Since when is six tablets considered a small dose?! That sounds like an awful lot of E to me.....a small dose is a single pill or less!!
Click to expand...
Unless they meant six tablets over the entire 18 months. But that is probably not what they meant. Even if the tablets contained only 50mg each, that would be a large dose. Many are stronger than that, but I don't know what the average is.
 
Last edited:
I wonder how the figures would relate to cannabis and whether the memory problems were cannabis related. Seems like such a small study would be inconclusive as to what factors directly led to the damage. Do cannabis and MDMA usage coincide? Is it possible that the patients in this "controlled" study did not use control substances and might've attained damage through other drugs they still thought of as being E? How does acid compare to E because I doubt that the spiritual aspect attained with E (that I've only heard of) compares to that of acid.

Peace,
PL
 
they mean the person dropped 1 pill six times or two pills 3 times, etc. in other words, taking e six times over the course of 18 months harms your brain according to this article. ive always assumed that e caused brain damage but i didn't realize such little use could have an affect.
 
[edit: too many rapid posters, meant for JollyRoger]
^
I think they mean six pills in the 18 month period, not all in one session :)

Just had a look for this study on Medline, doesn't seem to be there yet. An earlier study by the same researcher defined moderate use as <55 pills, lifetime; so defining 6 pills in 18 months as light seems to fit with that logic.

In response to TryptamineDreamer's comment about possibly adultered pills. This is a fair point. Remember, though, that we know that pure MDMA has negative effects on animals' memory, so it seems like a reasonable hypothesis that this is the case in humans too. Also, I believe there have been studies that controlled for cannabis use.
 
Last edited:
has anyone got access to the original data, from what I can see the study hasn't considered poly drug or other drug use as a factor, I would also be curious to see if this is a cohort study where the ecstacy users are compared to the non users or whether it is a longditudinal study where the ecstacy users results are compared to their own earlier results.
 
Sim0n said:
[edit: too many rapid posters, meant for JollyRoger]
^
I think they mean six pills in the 18 month period, not all in one session :)

Just had a look for this study on Medline, doesn't seem to be there yet. An earlier study by the same researcher defined moderate use as <55 pills, lifetime; so defining 6 pills in 18 months as light seems to fit with that logic.

In response to TryptamineDreamer's comment about possibly adultered pills. This is a fair point. Remember, though, that we know that pure MDMA has negative effects on animals' memory, so it seems like a reasonable hypothesis that this is the case in humans too. Also, I believe there have been studies that controlled for cannabis use.
Click to expand...


well i think its obvious that mdma has a negative affect on memory, ive read so many posts on here from people saying their brain were fried from taking it but of course these people were taking lots and lots of pills.
 
vecktor said:
has anyone got access to the original data, from what I can see the study hasn't considered poly drug or other drug use as a factor, I would also be curious to see if this is a cohort study where the ecstacy users are compared to the non users or whether it is a longditudinal study where the ecstacy users results are compared to their own earlier results.
Click to expand...

No-one's going to have the original raw data. As I said in my previous post, it doesn't look like the paper's on MedLine yet. It may have been published somewhere else, I'll see if I can locate it later.

As for your second question - it looks like it was a longitudinal study with both users and non-users: "The... team took brain scans and carried out memory tests on 188 people with no history of ecstasy use but at risk in the future. They repeated the tests 18 months later, and found for the 59 people who had used ecstasy there was evidence of decreased blood flow and memory loss."

So a longitudinal study where they measure one group before and after ecstasy use, and compare those results. And presumably compare another group who hadn't used ecstasy, but were measured at the same times as the first group.
 
Sim0n said:
[edit: too many rapid posters, meant for JollyRoger]
^


In response to TryptamineDreamer's comment about possibly adultered pills. This is a fair point. Remember, though, that we know that pure MDMA has negative effects on animals' memory, so it seems like a reasonable hypothesis that this is the case in humans too. Also, I believe there have been studies that controlled for cannabis use.
Click to expand...

I don't think I have read any of those studies, but I'll search for some later. I'd like to see if the amounts used were in the typical range of what a human would normally use.

I don't doubt that MDMA can cause long term or even permanent memory impairment, I just don't think a few uses at reasonable levels would likely cause noticeable long term impairment.
 
^
Yeah, I tend to agree with your conclusions there. We're not really in disagreement :)

[edit] Had a quick look on Medline, found a few studies on memory/cognition impairment in animals. Very interesting one that showed that low doses of MDMA (around 1mg/kg) had no significant effect, but that even low doses had a synergistic effect when combined with THC. High doses of MDMA (5mg/kg) did have an effect:

Young JM, McGregor IS, Mallet PE. (2005)
Co-administration of THC and MDMA ('ecstasy') synergistically disrupts memory in rats.
Neuropsychopharmacology. 2005 Aug;30(8):1475-82.
 
Last edited:
ECSTASY users at rave parties can be causing long-term brain damage, while even small amounts can be harmful to first-time users, research has found.

A study by University of Adelaide pharmacologist Dr Rod Irvine is the first time researchers have been able to measure the drug's effects on humans, after dozens of tests showing the effect on lab rats.

The research, collected from clubbers at Australian rave parties, was presented yesterday to the Australian Health and Medical Research Congress in Melbourne.

Dr Irvine said his findings showed humans and rats had the same physiological reaction to the drug.

He said until now, the long-term damaging effects of ecstasy had only been modelled on rat research.

"The data that has been shown in animals suggests there are long-term effects of taking these drugs which might result in cognitive impairment," he said.

"So this means people taking ecstasy might have problems with their memory and things in the long term."

Dr Irvine is now looking to recruit 80 ecstasy users for a new study investigating the link between body temperature and high drug concentration levels in the blood.

He said a spike in body temperature was the most severe and sometimes fatal outcome from using ecstasy.

A study presented at the annual Radiological Society of North America, found a decrease in blood circulation in some areas of the brain in young adults who just started to use ecstasy.

University of Amsterdam researchers said long-term or heavy use of ecstasy could damage neurons and cause depression, anxiety, confusion, difficulty sleeping and impairment of memory.

"We found a decrease in blood circulation in some areas of the brain in young adults who just started to use ecstasy," said lead researcher Maartje de Win.

"We also found a relative decrease in verbal memory performance in ecstasy users compared to non-users."

Ecstasy increases the amount of available serotonin - an important neurotransmitter - in the brain.

Serotinin helps regulate several brain functions, including mood and memory.

The study examined 188 volunteers with no history of ecstasy use but considered at high risk of taking ecstasy.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Ecstasy poses long-term risk
LOUISE TRECCASI, KATELYN JOHN
November 29, 2006 01:15am
The Advertiser
Link
 
As far as I can tell so far this study hasn't been published in the peer reviewed literature, until it does I for one will treat the rather sensationalist results with caution. I wish the scientific community would publish the study and the supporting data, then whip up the media circus. at least that would alllow informed debate and consideration of the truth.
I have looked at the study principles but not the results, this is a cohort study mdma users are compared to non mdma users, rather than the before and after study it implies it is. indeed in a 2005 paper Maartje de Win calls for a longitudinal study to enable causality to be investigated.
is the neXT program short of money?
 
I have all the symptoms listed and have never touched extasy(I can't even spell it). However, having done a myriad of other drugs I would argue that long term regular drug use can cause that. I doubt it's unique to XTC though.
 
This study hasn't been peer-reviewed fully since all the details the final manuscript will contain aren't present. Questions for the reviewers might include when memory tests were conducted (e.g., were subjects tired, off their usual sleep-wake cycles, etc.--all of which might affect memory, other drugs being used, etc.), The abstracts for the 2006 meeting are not up yet, let alone the full text.

I traced some of the previous work of these researchers and found egregious (orders of magnitude!) errors in citations to other studies (MDMA is fatal in 1 of 2000 first time users!). I think we might have the George Ricuarte of Europe here.

B
 
vecktor said:
I have looked at the study principles but not the results, this is a cohort study mdma users are compared to non mdma users, rather than the before and after study it implies it is.
Click to expand...

You sure about that? It says in the BBC article that they tested people who had not used ecstasy, then repeated the tests 18 months later (by which time a number of the subjects had used ecstasy). [2nd and 3rd paragraphs of the original post]. Are you saying that the BBC article is wrong? What's your source?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top