Slipped up during Sub withdrawals...did I hit “reset?”

[harlemspikes]

I’ve been abstaining from Suboxone for over three weeks now. I used some low-level (for me) dosing of Oxy and 30 mg morphine sulfate pills to avoid the worst of the Sub withdrawals, as I jumped off at a very high dose (16mgs after being on the strips for 3 1/2 years. This was done out of necessity). I was down to literally nothing for almost a week and having a shit time, as prior, I hadn’t gone a day without opiates in probably six years.

So last night I went to make myself a protein shake and I found a little packet of Oriental Pleasure H (some strong stuff) that I apparently hid in there a long time ago and forgot about. The temptation was too great and I wound up snorting half and plugging the rest.

I feel exhausted this morning, as the insomnia of withdraw has been killer for me, but otherwise I feel significantly better than I have in weeks. I’ve been taking comfort drugs like Gabapentin, Kratom and Klonopin for RLS, muscle aches, anxiety, etc, but I still was having a pretty rough go of it.

Did I just f*ck myself by completely restarting the withdrawal process? I’m so mad at myself. Trying not to be as I can’t go backwards, but if I have to start this hell over, I’m going to be really pissed.

Did I hit “reset” on my recovery?

 

[Jabberwocky]

No, the time you made process detoxing won't vanish because you had a little one off slip.

You'd make a great candidate for an outpatient methadone detox BTW. Are you familiar with that involves? Would probably be more helpful than trying to manage the symptoms of coming off 3+ years of highish dose buprenorphine use. An extended outpatient methadone taper would actually probably work even better, but certainly a normal month long methadone detox would be more useful than what you're currently doing.

In your situation it can take quite a while for all the symptoms to resolve. Like a month or two. Which sucks, but the symptoms should be pretty manageable, especially with the comfort meds you're using. Not easy or comfortable, but easier than coming off a intense full agonist opioid kick like what you experienced with buprenorphine.

Perhaps try increasing your dose of kratom and then tapering off that. You might also find entheogens like NMDAr antagonists, mushroom, or iboga to be really helpful in dealing with a lot of the challenges related to what you're currently experiencing. It sort of helps with motivation and flexibility in approaching your current situation/experience.

But like I said, your best bet to do this most comfortably and with enough support to make it very manageable is a methadone month long or extended detox. Especially if you just CT'd something like 3+ years 16mg buprenorphine habit.

 

[harlemspikes]

TPD, I appreciate and understand what you’re saying about supervised OP methadone, br I’m not quite there yet. I really want to try to push through this and I think I can do it, despite my stupid, miserable failure of a fuckup. My mind is in the right place now: I think the bad shot experience was enough to X out that stupid need for one last rush before I’m clean for good. If I find it becomes too difficult, I’ll absolutelt look into a methadone clinic. There are tons where I live.

What is iboga? You’ve mentioned it before. Is it legal? Also, I’m not sure if I can “source” Kratom on here even though it’s legal, but I need to find a reputable online dealer with some quality stuff from Bali that I can have next-day delivered. If you know of a good retailer, maybe we could PM about it? I’m almost out of my supply, and my gabapentin is dwindling like crazy. So I’m almost out of comfort drugs and nervous about that.

The main thing I want and need to do is get back into the gym and into running outside, which I love. I think that’ll help immensely, both mentally and physically.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Spending time outdoors especially is helpful with this kind of thing.

Try not to be to hard on yourself with the lapse though, I'd say more something that is expected than stupid per se. But I hear you. Silly, given your deeper goals, for sure.

Iboga is a way some people get out of addiction. Check out the page on Erowid for more details.

Unfortunately we don't allow sourcing for anything outside HR stuff like needles and drug testing reagent kits. We can talk about it off site though. It isn't that hard to find a good online kratom source these days.

 

[harlemspikes]

I. Feel. Like. Death. Today.

I heard a fly buzz...

 

[Baron27]

harlemspikes, listen to TPD, he knows his shit. I asked him almost the exact same question not long ago about ruining my progress by slipping up after over a week and fortunately, it did not "reset" anything. It likely prolonged the withdrawal and set me back a but, but not by any lengthy means. Your case is a little different because you used a full agonist so you might feel a little worse in the next day or so. Be careful man, this is a stage that can be super discouraging and can easily lead to a relapse. There are mechanisms in your brain that you aren't in full control over and you've just teased them, if you will. Just do your best to forget about it and press forward. You can do it; there are thousands of people who get through this. People in much worse situations. As far as comfort meds go I highly recommend Kratom if you're geting nasty WD's., it made an IMMENSE difference in the initial stages of WD. I found the withdrawal to get less and less intense between Kratom doses. By the time I stopped I just had restless legs and insomnia and tiredness (that is pretty much a guarantee coming off of opiates, at least in my experience.) but I felt 100x better than I did in the beginning stages of WD. It took two days of being off bup for the Kratom to have an effect on me so if you've taken any suboxone I recommend waiting two days, otherwise massive doses are required which is wasteful and hard on your stomach (and probably straight up bad) Stay away from extracts, they can be more addicting. Also, if you do decide to try the Kratom, discontinue after about 2 weeks or once you find your symptoms aren't noticeably improving anymore between doses because Kratom can be habit forming.(thanks again for that advice TPB) (initially you'll need it every 5-8 hours but toward the end I was able to take it every 12-14 hours without much trouble) Don't buy from headshops either, the product is inferior. If you choose to do this, feel free to ask me about how much to dose, schedule, etc. and I can tell you what worked for me. No sourcing though but it's not hard to find.

 

[harlemspikes]

harlemspikes, listen to TPD, he knows his shit. I asked him almost the exact same question not long ago about ruining my progress by slipping up after over a week and fortunately, it did not "reset" anything. It likely prolonged the withdrawal and set me back a but, but not by any lengthy means. Your case is a little different because you used a full agonist so you might feel a little worse in the next day or so. Be careful man, this is a stage that can be super discouraging and can easily lead to a relapse. There are mechanisms in your brain that you aren't in full control over and you've just teased them, if you will. Just do your best to forget about it and press forward. You can do it; there are thousands of people who get through this. People in much worse situations. As far as comfort meds go I highly recommend Kratom if you're geting nasty WD's., it made an IMMENSE difference in the initial stages of WD. I found the withdrawal to get less and less intense between Kratom doses. By the time I stopped I just had restless legs and insomnia and tiredness (that is pretty much a guarantee coming off of opiates, at least in my experience.) but I felt 100x better than I did in the beginning stages of WD. It took two days of being off bup for the Kratom to have an effect on me so if you've taken any suboxone I recommend waiting two days, otherwise massive doses are required which is wasteful and hard on your stomach (and probably straight up bad) Stay away from extracts, they can be more addicting. Also, if you do decide to try the Kratom, discontinue after about 2 weeks or once you find your symptoms aren't noticeably improving anymore between doses because Kratom can be habit forming.(thanks again for that advice TPB) (initially you'll need it every 5-8 hours but toward the end I was able to take it every 12-14 hours without much trouble) Don't buy from headshops either, the product is inferior. If you choose to do this, feel free to ask me about how much to dose, schedule, etc. and I can tell you what worked for me. No sourcing though but it's not hard to find.

Baron, sorry for the late reply. Thank you for your thoughtful response. And TPD was a great help early on in this.

I have been using Kratom but ran out two days ago. I ordered more but it was delivered to my mom’s house which is out of state, so no access til I’m home for the holidays. I thought I was def through the worst of withdrawals but the last two days have been fucking hell and I don’t get why. I feel worse than I initially did jumping off the Subs weeks ago. And incredibly depressed, achey, listless, irritable, horrible GI issues which weren’t that bad before, etc. The depression alone is making me rethink whether I should go back on a low dose of the Subs just to save my sanity and consequently remain a slave to the drug companies forever. I really don’t know the right answer.

Maybe it’s because I was on it so long and at such a high dosage. I am really struggling/feel like I’m drowning, and it’s so hard knowing just a little strip would make me feel all better. But I want so badly to be opiate-free, even ORT-free. Almost four years is a long time to be dependent on something, and for years before that it was full agonist opiates. I just want my mind back. With Xmas approaching, I feel serious despair setting in. I have no energy to see my family. Or for anything. Or to “act happy” and pretend all is well when I feel like a miserable, sick-as-a-dog failure. Sorry to be whiny. I’m just tired.

I don’t want to slip up again on a full agonist just for short term relief, but I’m afraid if I take even a small piece of a Sub strip, like 1 mg or less, everything will just be prolonged—especially bc of bupe’s long half life and extreme potency.

Any and all help or suggestions appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Baron27]

Hey man, no apology necessary. I’m really sorry to hear that you’re struggling. May I ask why you jumped off at such a high dose? I’m on day 24 since I started my detox (I too, “slipped up” but with suboxone) but I jumped off at 1mg and it’s still really rough sometimes. 16mg a day really builds up in your system because of suboxones extremely long half-life. That’s likely why you’re having such a rough time.

Has the Kratom helped you at all? What strain/dose are you taking? Have you ever come off opiates before? It’s really tough man, the first time I did it, it was by far the hardest thing I’ve ever done. It gets better though. Your brain wants to be normal, it wants to gravitate towards a natural state.

There is no shame in going back on suboxone for the sake of a short taper. You’ve probably already lowered your tolerance significantly and could stabilize on a really low dose. You’re already weeks into it though so it depends on how you feel. It might be best to quit while you’re ahead.

You’ve made huge progress, regardless of how you choose to proceed. I know it’s hard to feel that way by ‘not’ doing something and then feeling like shit. Hang in there, it’s tough but you will get through this.