Sign a petition into the Social and Economic cost of the War on Drugs

[thestudent14]

Sign our petition for a Royal Commision
Well intentioned as the current drug prohibition policies may be, they do not protect children. Illicit drugs are more readily available than ever.

We need your help to convince the government that the war on drugs has failed and does more unintended harm than intended good. The war on drugs is actually harming our children.

We call on the Honourable President and members of the Senate assembled on the first day of the new Parliament to establish a Royal Commission to enquiry into:

The health, social and economic costs associated with the criminalisation of recreational drug use including costs associated with organized crime, terrorism and corruption.

http://www.druglawreform.com.au/petition

Currently sitting at 2,232 signatures out of 10,000. Please sign and pass this on.

 

[Oldred3s]

That's 2,233 now.

 

[poledriver]

2,288 now

 

[poledriver]

http://www.druglawreform.com.au/petition

 

[pisspotnrock]

the worst thing is, due to the fact you have to give your personal details, many people would be put off signing it thus making alot less signatures than there could be

 

[teological]

Yeah, agree with pisspot on the anonymous thing.

I can not wait for the day drugs are legal. I just watched an episode of cops and it just angers me. All of the arrests are drug related and the police look both worthless an stupid as the hand cuff the guy for "getting high". It is just so absurd it becomes funny.

 

[gimpan]

the worst thing is, due to the fact you have to give your personal details, many people would be put off signing it thus making alot less signatures than there could be

Yeah phone number and address?

Im also not a big fan of the drug money funding terrorists line as well, oh well I put my name down anyway.

 

[thestudent14]

Yeah phone number and address?

Im also not a big fan of the drug money funding terrorists line as well, oh well I put my name down anyway.

It most certainly does fund terrorists, an estimated 90% of the worlds Heroin/Opium comes out of Afghanistan and into the hands of terrorists. Exports estimate are 7000 tonnes/year. More money for terrorists annually then in their country's annual budget. Incidently it's suggested that this is driving corruption through their government and also exporting Opiates to combat the terrorists. I've seen some compelling evidence but not enough to make me certain of it.

 

[teological]

Well another thought of why drugs WILL NOT BE LEGALISED in relation with the terror funds mentioned above; the CIA and US government have a habit of helping militant/terrorist groups raise funds, to topple a regime the US want overthrown in another nation state, by selling/producing drugs. It is actual fact that the CIA has done this...Afghanistan, Nicaragua, Cuba - almost always there is evidence. We all know what that means - the US won't legalise, and that equals the world won't either. Fucking bastard dogs.

There is always more to the story that meets the eye. The US was also once friends with the Afghan Mujahadeen they are now killing. In fact, the US CREATED them.

 

[gimpan]

It most certainly does fund terrorists, an estimated 90% of the worlds Heroin/Opium comes out of Afghanistan and into the hands of terrorists. Exports estimate are 7000 tonnes/year. More money for terrorists annually then in their country's annual budget. Incidently it's suggested that this is driving corruption through their government and also exporting Opiates to combat the terrorists. I've seen some compelling evidence but not enough to make me certain of it.

So whats a realistic option? Tasmania producing Australias heroin needs to keep the money out of Afghanistan?

I was hoping this petition was aiming to review drug laws and maybe look into decriminalising "soft" drugs.

 

[Black Rabbit of Inle]

2426 signatures now.

If you're that paranoid about putting your address and phone number on there make one up

 

[thestudent14]

So whats a realistic option? Tasmania producing Australias heroin needs to keep the money out of Afghanistan?

I was hoping this petition was aiming to review drug laws and maybe look into decriminalising "soft" drugs.

If currently our money is going into criminals and terrorists then I absolutely think our current system needs to be reviewed. I believe "this petition was aiming to review drug laws and maybe look into decriminalising "soft" drugs." This is the aim just the fact that the terrorism aspect is also a real one.

Well another thought of why drugs WILL NOT BE LEGALISED in relation with the terror funds mentioned above; the CIA and US government have a habit of helping militant/terrorist groups raise funds, to topple a regime the US want overthrown in another nation state, by selling/producing drugs. It is actual fact that the CIA has done this...Afghanistan, Nicaragua, Cuba - almost always there is evidence. We all know what that means - the US won't legalise, and that equals the world won't either. Fucking bastard dogs.

There is truth to this, however I'd strongly suggest that these are caused by the acts of corrupt individuals over the organisations themselves, the CIA famously were selling cocaine to one of the kingpins of the Crips but it was a corrupt man behind this (who further employed more corrupt people) trade not the CIA as a whole.

There is always more to the story that meets the eye. The US was also once friends with the Afghan Mujahadeen they are now killing. In fact, the US CREATED them.

This is also miss interperetd in my opinion, because a bunch of people were trained by the US does not mean that the US's intentions were to act against them. It would have been racist not to train them like any other individual and if you want training for a way to get around the safe guards in the US is to be trained by the US. I don't believe for a second that the US's intentions were to create terrorists so that they could fight them and spend billions of dollars in doing so. The fact that they now have gained control may be positive in some politicians eye's but I don't believe they would go to the extremes they have unless they had been prompted by attacks.

 

[opi8]

It's complicated, but facts are facts. US hates Russia. Russia invades Afghanistan. US Helps Afghans. Turns out that was a bad idea in hindsight, unless of course, you would like to see Russia ruling Afghanistan. Same thing with Iraq. U.S. helped Saddam Hussein because it suited them at the time, when they were at war with Iran. When someone needed to be blamed for everyone knows what, Saddam, who was an evil dictator, was the person who took the blame.

Everyoone should know this world is fucked, it won't get any better until the majority of the population either care enough, such as happened in some places recently (with very varied, and not what I would call successful results) or mother nature needs to decide that enought is enough and just start again. I don't care either way, but I'm not holding my breath or expecting anything at all to change any time soon.

 

[drug_mentor]

I am pretty sure it was a lot more than just a few corrupt CIA officials that had to do with the Iran Contra Affair dude, Oscar Blandon who sold Freeway Rick Ross all his cocaine was a CIA asset during the whole time he was supplying that cocaine, eventually served a measely two years in prison (which is RIDICULOUS for the level of drugs he sold in the United States) and then went on to be hired by the DEA and accepted as a US citizen, I mean that is more than a few corrupt individuals at work to get him that kind of treatment. This dude is now supposedly totally off the radar as well, probably living it up in anonymity somewhere.

Manuel Noriega was the former president of Panama who had ties to Oliver North who was one of the main orchestrators of this affair (as well as other high level CIA officials), he later served considerable time in US Federal Prison for numerous charges, including cocaine trafficking.

Oliver North for his role in this load of shit was sentenced to a three year long suspended prison sentence, which was overturned two years later anyway. He now has his own television program on the Fox News Channel.

One CIA director has said on the record that the CIA was involved in cocaine trafficking during this time period I am pretty sure, a while since I refreshed my memory on this stuff and I would have to look up specifically who that was, even without that admission the evidence is completely damning. I wont comment on Afghanistan or Cuba but I don't think there is any question that this was going on during the 80s with Nicaraguan Contra's. I have also seen a documentary where a guy who was working for the DEA at that time says he personally saw senior officials ordering DEA agents to let certain batches of cocaine through.

I don't think teological was trying to say that the US Government created the mujahadeen in the 80s just so 20 years later they could turn around and start a war in the middle east, more just pointing out that the US will chew up and spit out fucking anybody for their own agenda, they trained them 20 years ago when it suited their anti soviet agenda and now that going to war with them suits their oil grabbing agenda they have done just that.

Almost forgot to mention the kicker with that Iran Contra affair, a journalist named Gary Webb wrote an investigative piece into the Iran Contra Affair called 'Dark Alliance', I believe it was the first one of its kind and definately the first one to get the kind of exposure that it did. Eventually this guy turned up dead with two gunshot wounds to the head and this was ruled to be a suicide. Admittedly, this did take place 7 or 8 years after his initial article, and there are some reports he was depressed, however, I do find it incredibly suspect he needed two gunshots to his own head to kill himself and I am not so sure that someone sore over his exposure of this incident wasn't ultimately responsible for contracting the deed.

 

[teological]

thestudetn14, I do not think you are well versed with the CIA/US and its role in drug trafficking and consequent support of militant groups in foreign nation states. I have studied this in university and some facts escape me. I was going to type a lengthy response and have a look back, but having read drug_mentor's reply, he just took the words straight from my mouth I suggest you do some reading if you are interested.

This is why deep inside, I really have no hope for drugs ever becoming legal. The US, the unilateral world leader, will not allow it. The obvious front used is "health reasons", but militant groups, mobs, gangsters etc all need drugs to remain illegal to keep the prices up and provide them large amounts of primary income. The US needs these militant groups to flourish in foreign countries, it is part of their foreign policy, and the only way these type of groups survive and buy arms is through drugs. The police/dea etc need criminals to arrest. Again, the prison system is full of drug users/sellers. Drugs make the world go round, therefore they will never be legalized.

Here(au), one guy got caught importing ICE and has just been given 15 years imprisonment, whilst murderers and child molesters are running around on parole and suspended sentences, re-offending. Where is the justice? Importing ICE is really that bad? Is it so evil, that it is worse than someone who murders innocent girls or rapes children? Really? It just gets me so angry...this is injustice and everyone is fucking blind.

 

[opi8]

Come on d_m, that's all conspiracy theories and if you mentioned the facts of the matter in the U.S.A. you'd be persecuted, or like you said executed. Such is life.

 

[thestudent14]

I have read into the topics, but not I would think not as lengthy as you teological, and top post as always D_M. But I don't think the majority of people who join groups like the CIA have corruption in their mind when they start. Wide spread corruption is far less likely then less corruption who have risen to power and then give promote other corrupt people to powerful positions. But if it was the CIA's interests to sell drugs to criminals opposed to CIA individuals/criminal groups of the CIA they would surely be whistle blown. I know that the recent high profile cases like Assange/manning/snowden are all likely to be brought down and hunted for whistle blowing. But these were people against the Military, the US have a long long history of supporting whistle blowing. If corruption was widespread throughout the CIA surely there would be more people whistle blowing. I'm not questioning the fact that their were was 100% corruption and selling of drugs to criminals and overseas but I don't believe that it is fair to say that the whole organisation is corrupt, I simply do not see anywhere near enough evidence to see otherwise.

Manuel Noriega was the former president of Panama who had ties to Oliver North who was one of the main orchestrators of this affair (as well as other high level CIA officials), he later served considerable time in US Federal Prison for numerous charges, including cocaine trafficking.

Considering the 10's of millions of dollars he had squandered a two year sentence, whilst ridiculous, top criminal lawyers get people to have minor sentences. I'm not saying I at all agree with this notion, but it is a reality of the world we live in.

I don't think teological was trying to say that the US Government created the mujahadeen in the 80s just so 20 years later they could turn around and start a war in the middle east, more just pointing out that the US will chew up and spit out fucking anybody for their own agenda, they trained them 20 years ago when it suited their anti soviet agenda and now that going to war with them suits their oil grabbing agenda they have done just that.

In that case I agree, but alot of people do have the naive' view which I rebutted against.

This is why deep inside, I really have no hope for drugs ever becoming legal. The US, the unilateral world leader, will not allow it. The obvious front used is "health reasons", but militant groups, mobs, gangsters etc all need drugs to remain illegal to keep the prices up and provide them large amounts of primary income. The US needs these militant groups to flourish in foreign countries, it is part of their foreign policy, and the only way these type of groups survive and buy arms is through drugs. The police/dea etc need criminals to arrest. Again, the prison system is full of drug users/sellers. Drugs make the world go round, therefore they will never be legalized.

militant, groups mobs and gangsters need drugs to remain illegal, well I'm sorry but they shouldn't be the focus of what makes any grounds of common sense. Creating revenue would be a far more effective tool for helping militant groups and re-enforcing where neccessary. Instead we have a mess where Drugs fuel both sides of the same wars. The Police/dea need criminals to arrest because they've created a business behind it. If the drugs were legalized you instantly have 10,000's of people looking for jobs, they should be focused on creating jobs opposed to imprisoning because they don't have them.

To keep people in prison it costs $31,000 US to keep someone in prison every year. As there is currently 219,000 people in prison http://www.ipsnews.net/2013/02/u-s-prison-population-seeing-unprecedented-increase/
that equates to 6.8billion dollars every year spent not on creating something, of wasted money. Why do you think California started releasing prisoners in 2009-11(cant remember specifically), because it was too expensive to do otherwise. Furthermore the private prison industry is thriving, but they are paid by the government, so it's not generating money for them, they lose money just to keep people imprisoned. There's no doubt that some industry's depend on the drugs trade and imprisoning people, but it's on a slope that will cost them billions in the long run. The only answer is drug reform. This is why I can't see any option other then eventual reform. I don't think Drug Law reform is only important I think it's essential for the future of the US to survive. The military I can understand (whilst not agree with) in the sense that why they spend 100's of billions of dollars on it annually, it gives them a sense of security and power that they can use against the rest of the world, this couldn't be less true for the drug trade. Instead they have people imprisoned, dying and losing money that if implemented in the right way would see less harm across the board.

Not only do I believe this to be true, the more I read on the topic the sooner I think change will happen. One problem is that America is still majority Republic, and most (certainly not all) still have the belief that fear of punishment is still the best deterant when statistics certainly oppose this. I think we're still decades off any kind of real reform, but the recent legalisation of Marijuana in America is definitely a major first step to breaking down these barriers and fear mongering that has been thrown out for nearly half a fucking century.

I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna continue in this discussion as I'd actually prefer this thread stay on the topic of Australian drug reform and I'm too busy with uni studies to be spending time rebutting. But if in two months time one of you guys wants to open a new thread about this topic more in depth I'd love to get involved. My opinion on this topic is not unmovable, if I'm given enough evidence and reasonable thought I would change my mind, but with all the time I've spent looking into the topic I am as of yet to be persuaded.

Lovely talking with you gents.