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Shouldn't gabapentin attenuate the effects of other drugs?

thegreenhand said:
This synchronicity I was talking about is on the order of seconds, maybe even milliseconds. I was just musing on an interesting tidbit of neural encoding to expand Skorpio’s (-1)(1) analogy

So unfortunately there’s no real relevance when it comes to timing drugs for maximal benefits or anything like that
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If you have the literature on that I'd be interested in reading it. There was an outstanding paper on ketamine that really did a good job showing that specific oscillations in specific circuits are responsible for the dissociative effects.

 
Skorpio said:
If you have the literature on that I'd be interested in reading it. There was an outstanding paper on ketamine that really did a good job showing that specific oscillations in specific circuits are responsible for the dissociative effects.

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Meaningless gobbledygook. Reducing consciousness to circuits oscillating is the ultimate put down of what it means to be human. Reducing the brain and mind to solid state circuits is the same kind of fake science behind wearing a filthy nappy over your face for a respiratory illness.
 
6am-64-14m said:
This may be why I haven't noticed the opposite effects, then, maybe. Using on occasion may have afforded my experience with gabapentinoids and other substances.
I wonder (with tolerances) if raising the dose of the gabapentin would still give that "enhancement" of other drugs. I know the weight would get ridiculous fairly quickly and it would become a freakin' nightmare. I would opt for mgs over grams anyday but that is me.... <3
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True.

I have a tolerance to gabapentin. Although some days it does make me feel a little off balance still.
Only reason I think it's more than just tolerance though is the fact that a few times I've had to go without it, I noticed a more pronounced headspace and mood lift from my buprenorphine.

But then once I go back to taking the gabapentin, I do notice it feels alright for a day or so but then it starts to make me feel more tired & almost seems to make me feel more cloudy mentally, without enhancing any of the positives of my other meds.

And then after reading this article, it made me curious.
 
darvocet21 said:
Meaningless gobbledygook. Reducing consciousness to circuits oscillating is the ultimate put down of what it means to be human. Reducing the brain and mind to solid state circuits is the same kind of fake science behind wearing a filthy nappy over your face for a respiratory illness.
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No, it has meaning. That is the beauty of it - each of these terms is defined, their meaning is static because it is built up by so much other meaning. I do not call computer science meaningless because i do not know how to use a for loop.

Oscillations refer to eeg traces (and specifically the period of them decreasing from 1-3 Hz).

The term circuits just refers to groups of neurons that link different parts of the brain together (in this case the thalamus to the cortex).

The paper measured the effects of ketamine on the firing rate of the circuit linking the cortex to the thalamus, and came up with the hypothesis that dissociation is caused by that firing rate in that circuit.

They then tested this in mice by stimulating their brains with light activated neurons and fiber optics, and then they performed a similar experiment in a person who had epilepsy that caused dissociative effects, and had a deep brain stimulator implanted in the region they are studying.

They found stimulating brains at 1-3 Hz but not other frequencies would cause dissociation.

I would highly reccomend reading the paper from my previous post. It is rare for people to bring such an abstract hypothesis into humans. And by rare i mean it's surprising they were allowed to do that experiment.

Also, remember this isn't the lounge. I'd prefer to not bring this whole covid thing into this thread or even this sub forum without a damn good reason.

More generally, please don't shitpost here. I have seen you be real eloquent elsewhere in bluelight Darvocet, so i know you are capable of being a gentleman.


@DeathIndustrial88

Do you find other common drugs (ie benzos, cannabis, dissociative, or stimulants) potentiate or weaken opioid (especially bupe) effects for you?

Interesting data point.
 
Skorpio said:
No, it has meaning. That is the beauty of it - each of these terms is defined, their meaning is static because it is built up by so much other meaning. I do not call computer science meaningless because i do not know how to use a for loop.

Oscillations refer to eeg traces (and specifically the period of them decreasing from 1-3 Hz).

The term circuits just refers to groups of neurons that link different parts of the brain together (in this case the thalamus to the cortex).

The paper measured the effects of ketamine on the firing rate of the circuit linking the cortex to the thalamus, and came up with the hypothesis that dissociation is caused by that firing rate in that circuit.

They then tested this in mice by stimulating their brains with light activated neurons and fiber optics, and then they performed a similar experiment in a person who had epilepsy that caused dissociative effects, and had a deep brain stimulator implanted in the region they are studying.

They found stimulating brains at 1-3 Hz but not other frequencies would cause dissociation.

I would highly reccomend reading the paper from my previous post. It is rare for people to bring such an abstract hypothesis into humans. And by rare i mean it's surprising they were allowed to do that experiment.

Also, remember this isn't the lounge. I'd prefer to not bring this whole covid thing into this thread or even this sub forum without a damn good reason.

More generally, please don't shitpost here. I have seen you be real eloquent elsewhere in bluelight Darvocet, so i know you are capable of being a gentleman.


@DeathIndustrial88

Do you find other common drugs (ie benzos, cannabis, dissociative, or stimulants) potentiate or weaken opioid (especially bupe) effects for you?

Interesting data point.
Click to expand...
I should have known better than to pick an argument with you again @Skorpio
 
Skorpio said:
If you have the literature on that I'd be interested in reading it. There was an outstanding paper on ketamine that really did a good job showing that specific oscillations in specific circuits are responsible for the dissociative effects.

Click to expand...
I’d start with:

Phase-of-firing coding of natural visual stimuli in primary visual cortex

It’s old (2008 ) but it’s probably the ‘foundational’ paper for this kind of work. Check out the ‘cited by’ for more modern work expanding on this that has become more specialized in recent years. But I’ll admit I haven’t read much err.. actually any of this new stuff beyond some of the abstracts

And yeah that ketamine paper (I assume you mean this one) was incredible. It introduced a very distinct change in how neuropharmacology has traditionally been conceptualized imo
 
Skorpio said:
No, it has meaning. That is the beauty of it - each of these terms is defined, their meaning is static because it is built up by so much other meaning. I do not call computer science meaningless because i do not know how to use a for loop.

Oscillations refer to eeg traces (and specifically the period of them decreasing from 1-3 Hz).

The term circuits just refers to groups of neurons that link different parts of the brain together (in this case the thalamus to the cortex).

The paper measured the effects of ketamine on the firing rate of the circuit linking the cortex to the thalamus, and came up with the hypothesis that dissociation is caused by that firing rate in that circuit.

They then tested this in mice by stimulating their brains with light activated neurons and fiber optics, and then they performed a similar experiment in a person who had epilepsy that caused dissociative effects, and had a deep brain stimulator implanted in the region they are studying.

They found stimulating brains at 1-3 Hz but not other frequencies would cause dissociation.

I would highly reccomend reading the paper from my previous post. It is rare for people to bring such an abstract hypothesis into humans. And by rare i mean it's surprising they were allowed to do that experiment.

Also, remember this isn't the lounge. I'd prefer to not bring this whole covid thing into this thread or even this sub forum without a damn good reason.

More generally, please don't shitpost here. I have seen you be real eloquent elsewhere in bluelight Darvocet, so i know you are capable of being a gentleman.


@DeathIndustrial88

Do you find other common drugs (ie benzos, cannabis, dissociative, or stimulants) potentiate or weaken opioid (especially bupe) effects for you?

Interesting data point.
Click to expand...
I find that all of those drugs potentiate opioids for me. Although which part of the opioid experience they potentiate can vary.

Benzos though, I have noticed can really diminish the euphoria from other drugs. Which makes sense, since they're suppose to lower the amount of neurotransmitter release I think.
But oddly at other times, I've noticed that benzos can have paradoxical effects and actually be kind of stimulating and euphoric, but it's kind of rare to have it happen.

I've also noticed that taking bupe in the morning makes me lazy and wanna go back to bed. However taking it at night stimulates me and keeps me interested in doing something (which is what I would like it to do in the morning). I wonder if the chemicals released due to our circadian rhythms can have an effect on our drug experiences. Maybe they don't, but I have asked around on here and have had a few other people say they feel the same way, so there could be something to it.
 
I'm on 600mg gabapentin 3x a day, 300mg monthly subq bupe shots (sublocade), and regularly use ketamine. I have no idea what you all are talking about. Never felt the absolute need to take my gabas, I forget to even sometimes, no wds at all. My shot remains very effective, although I don't experience euphoria (as I shouldn't). Ketamine tolerance doesn't even build for me, which is odd. So I guess this combo works pretty well in the scientific side of things.
As for your main question, no I don't think gaba is affecting the bupe at all, maybe the ketamine stops the gaba wds and maybe gaba stops the ketamine tolerance.
 
DeathIndustrial88 said:
"Gabapentin increases non-synaptic GABA responses from neuronal tissues in vitro. In vitro, gabapentin reduces the release of several mono-amine neurotransmitters."



Shouldn't this mean that gabapentin should reduce euphoria from stimulants/opioids?

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Mechanisms of action of gabapentin - PubMed

The chemical structure of gabapentin (Neurontin) is derived by addition of a cyclohexyl group to the backbone of gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA). Gabapentin prevents seizures in a wide variety of models in animals, including generalized tonic-clonic and partial seizures. Gabapentin has no...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


What causes the euphoria from gabapentin then? It at least gives some in the beginning or at least a mood lift.
But after several months on it, I'm starting to wonder if it effects the weak dopamine release from buprenorphine? Making opioids cravings worse?
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I’d say it’s from the increase in serotonin in the whole blood and the negative voltage for the gaba receptor ᙈṈḳṈṎᏔṈ ꋪꏂꍏꌚꂦꈤꌚ
 
darvocet21 said:
This is a good thread. Sorry about stim posting on it before
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I had forgotten all about this thread for awhile.


I'm still undecided on whether gabapentin ruins other drugs or not. I think it can if you take it daily, but if you have low tolerance or no tolerance to it, it can some times potentiate other drugs. Except hydrocodone. I learned the hard way over Christmas, that taking gabapentin while actively feeling hydrocodone is like being thrown into precipitated withdrawals.

On the other hand I find when gaba does potentiate opiates (mostly bupe for me), it generally just makes them more sedating as well. Not exactly a fun time.
 
DeathIndustrial88 said:
I had forgotten all about this thread for awhile.


I'm still undecided on whether gabapentin ruins other drugs or not. I think it can if you take it daily, but if you have low tolerance or no tolerance to it, it can some times potentiate other drugs. Except hydrocodone. I learned the hard way over Christmas, that taking gabapentin while actively feeling hydrocodone is like being thrown into precipitated withdrawals.

On the other hand I find when gaba does potentiate opiates (mostly bupe for me), it generally just makes them more sedating as well. Not exactly a fun time.
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Yeah sedating or nothing at all
 
darvocet21 said:
Yeah sedating or nothing at all
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Exactly

Most drugs people claim "potentiate" opiates, just make them more sedating. And I don't particularily like the sedation from opiates (unless it's accompanied by full blown euphoria & contentment ).
 
It just makes me down and low not sedated. And leaves me not really sure. And sorry I just wanted to mention too Pregabalin is even worse amplified from the Gabapentin excursion. It's just a little bit of a tilt. I wouldn't mind it if it weren't such a strong chemical that kind of outweighs the benefits. That's just me though.

Btw, i wish I could take one right now but I am terrified of it because of my other medication right now. I would take a Norco with no worry what so ever. Except for the fact that I will get instantly addicted again. Lol. My dope and much needed medicine that is no more. Until further notice. Oh I have so much to do. It helps to have a boost from what real medicine can do. Sorry rant over. I am just used to my things.

I'm sure it's not bad but if I knew I would make it through the day on a hit of GabaP I would take one. But it's always a bad experience for me. And I would much prefer it over rgat hallucinogenic Pregabalin. I was having visuals from it when I was trying to drive. If I want to hallucinate I will take what I need to and when. However, I took the Pregabalin for pain relief. So yes, I have to have a real opioid for my existence. Sorry rant really over this time. It's just all too foreign to me. Lol. Sad but true. <3 coke's even messed up now and with the fentanyl it's a very criminal world right and are my sentiments exactly.

I am just saying the less adjunct the better. But that's how the pharma mix's sometimes. I am just saying if I knew it would help more than harm I would love one right at this moment's second !! I have a Gabapentin right now but it don't do me no to take one. Maybe this is more like a question about drugs. Specifically the on topic GabaPentin. I wish I knew.
 
i was titrated up to 800mg of Neurontin 3x a day as a mood stabilizer with the added benefit of helping chronic pain. It helped neither and after almost a year I had a couple months of hypomania which I enjoyed honestly but then I had bad insomnia and had to switch off. Stopped it and started back on lithium never had any withdrawals.
this was before gabapentin became the hot new drug to abuse
and before the company that makes it got sued for it not really doing the shit that they said it does (bipolar, pain) it works for seizures…but like this article says its sales continue to soar. People think it does something. Or it does do something? Or this is the placebo effect gone wide.

unethical but I would love to take a couple people who do gaba and empty out a capsule and fill it with an inert substance and give it to them and see if they still had the effect of taking a gabapentin

i know I do react to and process sugar caffeine, alcohol, and drugs differently then other people because of the way my brain chemistry is. I used to think that was my imagination but it’s not.


Pfizer, the world's largest drug maker, pleaded guilty on 13 May to numerous civil and criminal charges for illegally promoting the off-label use of gabapentin (Neurontin). It has agreed to pay a $240m (£136m; €200m) criminal fine and $152m to state and federal healthcare programmes.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Pfizer pleads guilty, but drug sales continue to soar

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

edited to fix a slew of typos :hammer:
 
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It absolutely caused my methadone to stop working, while I was taking it and for the next week or two afterwards. I've actually mentioned this in other posts and was curious as to why.
 
The first time i was prescribed gabapentin i was already on morphine. For the first month the combo hit me so hard id nod off while tying my shoes or while eating. So it increased euphoria for me. didnt seem to have much of a effect of coke when i took it with it
 
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