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Should we go to war with Iraq?

This war is just so fucked up. FOX with their 24 hour dribble about how great the military and how righteous they are. Their press and government are so pro aggression. I wonder if there is even one senator who will even bother to watch Bowling for Colunbine. I doubt it. The sad thing about australia is that our press and government is so similar to america's. If it wasn't for SBS (and to a lesser extent the ABC), we'd never know an alternative opinion. Thank go I have BBC world here, now that is how to run a unbiased TV network.

As much as feel sorry for the millions of people who are somewhat suffering in the US, there are few things I'd love to see more nowadays that the collapse of the US economy. Even if it meant a worldwide economic meltdown, anything is better than having this situation where nearly every senator is literally drooling over the prospect of another early fourth of July Middle-East extravaganza. It's very sad, these hawks are loving this. FOX presenters are literally laughing through their coverage.

It's all very sick.

As for the HECS thing. It'd be great if they used that additional money back into improving education. But they won't of course. Way to go. Taking money out education is like the best way to advance australia fair. Sometimes I just wonder if anyone out that matters really cares... I guess I can only hope, even if it is false hope.
 
Fuckin ay no we shouldn't!

The further this war advances the thinner the facade of naked capitalism gets.

The more civilians that get killed in US (smart bomb) Missile attacks, the less the objective begins to look like matching up with the name Operation Iraqi Freedom, how do you free someone who doesn't wish to be freed, and secondly, what the fuck does freedom matter to dead children?

The more contracts that get awarded without any real competition to White House affiliated companies, the harder it is to believe the propaganda. Haliburton were awarded the contract to run the port city of Um Qasr, and that company used to have Vice President Dick Cheney as the CEO. Boots & Coots were awarded the contract to cap the oil fires, without any tendering process. They are also closely affiliated with the White House. I am sure that in time there will be many more examples.

Either way. This war disgusts me, and not only should we not be a part of it, we should be on the other side. We're the new world nazis ladies and gents, are YOU proud to play a part?

(More stuff HERE : http://audaciaveritas.blogspot.com/)

-plaz out-
 
I didn't even notice that this thread had turned into a place to talk about the war.

I just woke up and read about a suicide bombing in Najaf that's killed five U.S. Marines, as someone who has read a lot about this war already and has studied a lot of history, this attack plus the continuing guerilla tactics used by militia in the South, plus the continued resistance in Basra, plus the lack of Iraqis surrendering as opposed to 1991, all point to very bad signs for the Americans.

As America learnt 8) in Vietnam, you cannot fight a war that is unpopular on two fronts. The first being on the ground; every day that passes, every day that Saddam remains in power, every day a missile hits another market: it all makes Saddam look like a hero and the allies an invading enemy. More Iraqis will be motivated to defend their homeland.

The second front being back home; public opinion leading into this war was never high in support of invasion, while that support rose after the war started; every day that allied casualities rise, every day allies blow each other up in the deserts of Iraq, the more quickly support for the war will erode back home.

Either this war will end quickly one way or the other, or it's going to turn real ugly.
 
-Thoth, let me know how you go with getting that lecture hosted... I would LOVE to hear it.
 
At the end of the day, if Saddam can be felled by an assassins bullet I feel that momentum could shift back towards the US/UK and the war could come to a logical conclusion quite quickly.

I have my doubts as to whether suicide bombings will be as much of a factor as has been declared in the media, mainly due to the almost completely secular nature of Iraq (vs the fundamentalism of Hamas in Palestine, or radical groups in Indonesia), and the fact that the Americans are going to some pains to demonstrate that they are not there to occupy Iraq or annex great swathes of land (unlike Israel who have incurred the great ire of the wholly secular Fatah in Palestine).

Assuming that many Iraqis at some internal level believe that they aren't there to be occupied, and that they are not fundamentalists in any sense of the term - the most compelling motivations for launching suicide attacks are essentially removed.

Trying to expose and widen the divide that exists between the Iraqi people and their regime is going to be the most important goal of the Coalition in the weeks ahead in my opinion. Even within the Iraqi armed forces there is a culture of fear that mandates compliance, and if this disharmony can be exploited and used to isolate the Iraqi population, either by an assassins bullet, the elimination of the more prominent members of Saddam's coterie, or even by the disruption of communication mediums such as television etc.. the war will go along way to resolving itself.

Bulldozing into Baghdad using sheer force without achieving any of the above first will be a major mistake and contribute to a prolonging of the current conflict.
 
gousa,0.jpg


from the Sydney Morning Herald

Really sums up the entire situation perfectly don't you think? ;)
 
BushCo Reams Nation Good
No WMDs after all, no excuse for war, too late for anyone to care anymore. Ha-ha, suckers
By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist

Wednesday, May 14, 2003





Ha-ha-ha oh man did we ever get smacked on that one. Conned big time. Punk'd like dogs. Just gotta shake your head, laugh it off. They reamed us but good, baby! Damn.
Turns out it really was all a big joke after all. The war, that is. All a big fat nasty murderous oil-licking lie, a sneaky little power-mad game with you as the sucker and the world as the pawn and BushCo as the slithery war thug, the dungeon master, the prison daddy. You really have to laugh. Because it's just so wonderfully ridiculous. In a rather disgusting, soul-draining sort of way.
See, there are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. No WMDs at all. Isn't that great? What's more: There never were. Ha-ha-ha. Gotcha!
No warehouses teeming with nuclear warheads, no underground bunkers packed with vats of boiling biotoxins, no drums of crazy-ass chemical agents that will melt your skin and turn us all into drooling flesh-eating zombies -- unless, of course, you count the sneering vat of conservative biotoxin that is, say, Fox News, in which case, hell yeah baby, we gotcher WMDs right here beeyatch.
Go figure. Those lowly U.N. inspectors were right after all. Who knew? It was all a ruse. We've been sucker-punched and ideologically molested and patriotically sodomized and hey, what the hell, who cares anyway, we "liberated" an oppressed people most Americans secretly loathe and fear and don't understand in the slightest, even though that was never the point, or the justification, or the goal. Go team.
But wait, is liberation of a brutalized and tormented people now the reason? The justification for our thuggery? That is so cool! So that means we're going to blow the living crap out of Sri Lanka and Sudan and Tibet and North Korea and about 47 others, right? Right? Maybe Saudi Arabia, too, second only to the Talilban itself in its abuse of women? Cool! As if.
Ah, but screw the liberal whiny peacenik U.N. inspectors, right? Let's ask the U.S. search teams themselves, ShrubCo's own squadrons of biologists, chemists, arms-treaty enforcers, nuclear operators, computer and document experts and Special Forces troops who've been in Iraq for weeks now, searching frantically.
Surely they've found something, right? Surely we can now prove that Saddam was fully intending to fillet our babies and annihilate Florida and poke the eyes out of really cute kittens on national TV for sadistic pleasure, right? Gimme a hell yeah!
Whoops. Bad news. As The Washington Post reports, the 75th Exploitation Task Force, the very serious-minded group heading up all U.S. inspections in Iraq, the group absolutely certain it would immediately find steaming neon-lit stockpiles of WMDs piled right next to Saddam's personal stash of gay porn and Britney Spears posters and opium pipes, is coming home with its tail between its legs. Found nothing. Nada.
Psychopatriots are a little nonplussed. Bush is merely "embarrassed." Peace advocates are sighing and drinking heavily. We have done this ghastly horrible inane hate-filled entirely unprovoked thing in the name of power and petroleum and military contracts and strategic empire building, our nation is numb and more bitterly divisive than ever and our leaders are not the slightest bit ashamed.
But of course you're not the slightest bit shocked. You knew it all along. The WMD line was just a ploy that, tragically, much of the nation bought into like a sucker pyramid scheme after being pounded into submission with hammers of fear and Ashcroftian threats and bogus Orange Alerts and having their tweezers confiscated at the airport.
And of course the capacity to be outraged and appalled has been entirely drained out of you, out of this nation, replaced by raging ennui and sad resentment and the new fall season on NBC. This is what they're counting on. Your short attention span. WMDs? That's so, like, last February. Hey look, the swimsuit model won "Survivor"!
Because now it's all done. Like a bad trip to the dentist where your routine cleaning turned out to be a bloody excruciating root canal and 50 hours of high-pitched drilling and $100 billion in god-awful cosmetic surgery, now the bandages come off. Smile, sucker. We're at peace once again. Sort of. But not really. Don't you feel better now? No? Too bad. No one cares what you think.
It's all over but the shouting. And the screaming. And the endless years of U.S. occupation in the Middle East, the quiet building of U.S. military bases in Iraq so we can keep those uppity bitches Syria and Egypt and Lebanon in line, forge ahead with the long-standing plan to strong-arm those damn Islamic nuts into brutal compliance with Bushco's bleak blueprint for World Inc. What, too bitter? Hardly.
Should we care that Osama, the actual perp of 9/11, is still running around free? That terrorism hasn't been quelled in the slightest? That the Mideast is more of a U.S.-hating powder keg than ever, thanks to BushCo? That the economy is in the worst shape it's been in decades?
Should we care that we just massacred tens of thousands of Iraqi (and Afghani) civilians and soldiers and suffered a little more than 100 U.S. casualties and have absolutely nothing to show for it except bogus force-fed pride and this weird, sickening sense that we just executed something irreparable and ungodly and karmically poisonous?
Nah. Just laugh it off. Have a glass of wine, make love, go play Frisbee with the dog. Breathe deep and focus on what's truly important and try to assimilate this latest atrocity into your backstabbed worldview, add it to the list of this lifetime's spiritual humiliations, as you wait for the next barrage, the imminent announcement that we're about to do it all again.
Steel yourself. Protect your soul. Because man, they reamed us good. Slammed this nation like a bad joke. Gotcha! Ha-ha-ha.
Click to expand...

taken from here
 
Instant-Mix Imperial Democracy

from a speech by Arundhati Roy

Some of you will think it bad manners for a person like me, officially entered in the Big Book of Modern Nations as an "Indian citizen," to come here and criticize the U.S. government. Speaking for myself, I'm no flag-waver, no patriot, and am fully aware that venality, brutality, and hypocrisy are imprinted on the leaden soul of every state. But when a country ceases to be merely a country and becomes an empire, then the scale of operations changes dramatically. So may I clarify that tonight I speak as a subject of the American Empire? I speak as a slave who presumes to criticize her king.

Since lectures must be called something, mine tonight is called: Instant-Mix Imperial Democracy (Buy One, Get One Free).

Way back in 1988, on the 3rd of July, the U.S.S. Vincennes, a missile cruiser stationed in the Persian Gulf, accidentally shot down an Iranian airliner and killed 290 civilian passengers. George Bush the First, who was at the time on his presidential campaign, was asked to comment on the incident. He said quite subtly, "I will never apologize for the United States. I don't care what the facts are."

I don't care what the facts are. What a perfect maxim for the New American Empire. Perhaps a slight variation on the theme would be more apposite: The facts can be whatever we want them to be.

When the United States invaded Iraq, a New York Times/CBS News survey estimated that 42 percent of the American public believed that Saddam Hussein was directly responsible for the September 11th attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. And an ABC News poll said that 55 percent of Americans believed that Saddam Hussein directly supported Al Qaida. None of this opinion is based on evidence (because there isn't any). All of it is based on insinuation, auto-suggestion, and outright lies circulated by the U.S. corporate media, otherwise known as the "Free Press," that hollow pillar on which contemporary American democracy rests.

Public support in the U.S. for the war against Iraq was founded on a multi-tiered edifice of falsehood and deceit, coordinated by the U.S. government and faithfully amplified by the corporate media.

Apart from the invented links between Iraq and Al Qaida, we had the manufactured frenzy about Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction. George Bush the Lesser went to the extent of saying it would be "suicidal" for the U.S. not to attack Iraq. We once again witnessed the paranoia that a starved, bombed, besieged country was about to annihilate almighty America. (Iraq was only the latest in a succession of countries - earlier there was Cuba, Nicaragua, Libya, Grenada, and Panama.) But this time it wasn't just your ordinary brand of friendly neighborhood frenzy. It was Frenzy with a Purpose. It ushered in an old doctrine in a new bottle: the Doctrine of Pre-emptive Strike, a.k.a. The United States Can Do Whatever The Hell It Wants, And That's Official.

The war against Iraq has been fought and won and no Weapons of Mass Destruction have been found. Not even a little one. Perhaps they'll have to be planted before they're discovered. And then, the more troublesome amongst us will need an explanation for why Saddam Hussein didn't use them when his country was being invaded.

Of course, there'll be no answers. True Believers will make do with those fuzzy TV reports about the discovery of a few barrels of banned chemicals in an old shed. There seems to be no consensus yet about whether they're really chemicals, whether they're actually banned and whether the vessels they're contained in can technically be called barrels. (There were unconfirmed rumours that a teaspoonful of potassium permanganate and an old harmonica were found there too.)

Meanwhile, in passing, an ancient civilization has been casually decimated by a very recent, casually brutal nation.

full speech here
Click to expand...
 
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^^^^^ LOL! :D
Funny shit.. And disturbingly true I'd say!
I gotta show this one to my dad, he'll love it.
 
TheT

The US is awesome.

Let them kill, blowup, maim, toruture and destroy anyone they damn well feel like, especially sand-niggers.

As long as my petrol stays under $1 per litre I dont give a fuck who dies.
 
Re: TheT

Energizer said:
The US is awesome.

Let them kill, blowup, maim, toruture and destroy anyone they damn well feel like, especially sand-niggers.

As long as my petrol stays under $1 per litre I dont give a fuck who dies.
Click to expand...
your joking right ?
 
Read

Yes, but i am in a foul mood and hope that some people may get a laugh out of my sick sense of humour that I feel I should write.
 
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