Shoplifting

[lostpunk5545]

^ Fair enough. So blame the government. And still steal shit. Honestly who's losing out. I'm sure stolen stuff is probably even factored into the budgets of corporate chains.

 

[keystroke]

stolen goods is factored into budgets of companies, but it still doesn't make it right.

 

[lostpunk5545]

I realise that the same two points are just getting thrown back and forth here so this will be my last post in this thread.

But just to reiterate:

Stealing is not right -> Corporations steal off us all the time -> Stealing off corporations is right.

Cheers

 

[keystroke]

corporations hardly steal off anyone, and I put it down to anyone to show me hard facts otherwise....


it's not justified to STEAL anything, off of anyone, stealing is not right, no matter how you try and justify it.....

 

[Bent]

Stealing is not right -> Corporations steal off us all the time -> Stealing off corporations is right.

Give me ONE instance where a "Corporation" has STOLEN something from YOU. Just one....

 

[lostpunk5545]

Stop drawing me back in damnit. Here's my example-

A huge sort of golf resort, rich hangout thing is currently being built not far from my house. To build this they have obliterated a huge section of Melaleuca wetland, which if you know anything about wetlands is important habitat for all sorts of species of plants and trees, and also integral to breeding habits of a lot of birds.

Therefore the corporation responsible for the development (which would not have been approved nowadays when we realise the importance of wetlands - but was approved in the 80's) has stolen from me the aesthetic attraction of a beautiful piece of bushland I used to enjoy walking around in and taking photos.

Not only that but they have stolen lots of habitat and marginally resulting in a loss of biodiversity in the area. This affects everyone - they have stolen from us all. I bet most rate payers in my area dissaprove of a bunch of rich twats cutting down all our trees and building private golf resorts - where they can walk around in their flat, uninteresting, utopia pretending that nothing exists outside of their locked gates.

So anyways, does anyone want some lumber? I feel like taking a night drive

 

[anna!]

So if you are sitting in a seat on a train and someone else is standing up, you're effectively stealing a seat they could be sitting on and therefore it's okay if they steal from you.

It is NOT okay to steal. Someone having more money/property/inventory than you is NOT a legitimate target for your petty thievery.

 

[Naughtiest_Maximus]

^^^ [edit mant for lostpunk]Not really but i think that once the course has been built some late night walks with some herbicide could make for some pretty funny comments on thier brand new greens.

 

[lostpunk5545]

^ Godamnit man (I'm a doctor of journalism) you're a genius.

Done and done... Well I guess it won't be finished for at least a year, but I'll keep the thought in my mind

Oh I love the words "petty thievery" too. I guess when someone like Christopher Skase steals a whole bunch of old peoples money and then runs away to spain, that should be respected, right?

And sorry anna but no way I look at that seat comment seems to make it any more contextable to anything I've said.

A train seat is designed for sitting on. And if it looked like someone else needed it more than me I would quite gladly abandon it and in fact have done in the past.

The bush that covers this earth is part of my natural heritage, as a product of this planet. Who can give away permission to come and take that away? (Yeah, yeah, the local council/government, but we are speaking non-literally here).

Being the only species with enough sentience to be able to comprehend that, should mean that we should take action against it's loss.

 

[drEaMtiMe*@#]

Give me ONE instance where a "Corporation" has STOLEN something from YOU. Just one....

your not seriously saying that corporations aren't evil are you?

and um, have you ever heard of 'sweat shops'? i.e. those nikes that you bought cost $2.50 to make and you payed $150 for them... is that not stealing?

its not RIGHT to steal and doing it just to stick it to the big corporations wont achieve anything but it is technically justifiable when you look at it in the above terms.

 

[keystroke]

Oh I love the words "petty thievery" too. I guess when someone like Christopher Skase steals a whole bunch of old peoples money and then runs away to spain, that should be respected, right?

that shouldn't be respected, at all, that's what we are trying to tell YOU stealing isn't justified no matter how small or large it is.....

 

[keystroke]

and um, have you ever heard of 'sweat shops'? i.e. those nikes that you bought cost $2.50 to make and you payed $150 for them... is that not stealing?

DO SWEATSHOPS OFFER SOME ADVANTAGES TO WORKERS?

Sweatshops offer workers some advantages in foreign countries. In Malaysia, women have an opportunity to work at Motorola instead of working in the rice fields. The average pay in Malaysia is $108 per month. However, if you work for Motorola, you are paid $300 per month. Women are changing their culture and learning to speak out and voice their opinions. They are setting goals to own a business, to go to college, or to be independent (Greider, 1997, p38). The economies of third world countries are also improving due to American money being spent there.

Consumers in the United States also benefit from sweatshops because companies are able to keep their prices low.

 

[lostpunk5545]

^ In my books you justifying sweat shops has negated any sort of relevance you might have brought to the debate at hand. Sweat shops are a way of undermining the workers in the country of the corporation by taking their shit overseas where they can let poor people do all the work for next to nothing. I can't debate the point that what they are paying may be more than tilling a field, but they are still wages that in America, the home of motorola would be laughable when compared to minimum wages.

Oh and motorola a company that seemed to have no problem making the plastic components for landmines (until the media ran stories about it and suddenly they were unaware of the uses of the parts they were selling?!!?) is not the greatest example of a friendly corporation doing their best to end world poverty.

And I will clarify - I don't steal things myself, I'm too lazy to take stupid risks. Obviously the lumber thing was a joke. I just don't find it morally reprehensible to take things off people who are undeserving of them in the first place.

"Every week from Moscow to Madagascar, Ronald McDonald's smile warms the hearts of all people regardless of race, colour, creed, sex and social status. By opening 3 new restaurants as ambassador of my country, America, Ronald personally invites you to join him on his quest to end world hunger. Enjoy!"

- Guttermouth

 

[drEaMtiMe*@#]

Keystroke: what you quoted there is nothing more than one intellectuals attempt to sugar coat the concept of exploitation.

the point which i was attempting to make is that gross profit is none different to stealing. it may be idealistic to a degree but still i maintain that its not right and never will be. essentially it is the abuse of power.

 

[keystroke]

I just quoted that, cause it was relevant to the way this thread was going,

notice the part at the bottom,

Consumers in the United States also benefit from sweatshops because companies are able to keep their prices low.

Companies like these, as lostpunk said, are stealing from people (by not paying decent wages, by hiking up their prices of a 2 dollar product to 200 dollars and not giving fair working conditions) making that a good product to sell in the USA, cause it costs nothing to make elsewhere.

but even still, if these corporations exploit works in sweatshops like they do, how does that justify a person going into KMart of Big W and stealing a dvd or a bar of chocolate?

sure some people have it bad, and sure some people need to steal to live [in third world countries, this might be somewhat acceptable]

but in Australia, it's nothing more than a joke - because even if you can't afford to live, there's things setup (government aide, independant shelter, food, etc) that help you out. so stealing still isn't justified.... and especially more so because the only reasons given are "companies steal from workers in sweatshops"

I'm sure the junkie that stole my CDs and my mates detachable face CD-Player out of his car was thinking about the sweatshops when he broke into the car.

 

[kryalkastleE]

*walks into thread to tell of her daring exploits at "shoplifting" a $2 lip gloss*

*walks out after she gets scared about all the corporation talk*

 

[Bent]

your not seriously saying that corporations aren't evil are you?

and um, have you ever heard of 'sweat shops'? i.e. those nikes that you bought cost $2.50 to make and you payed $150 for them... is that not stealing?

its not RIGHT to steal and doing it just to stick it to the big corporations wont achieve anything but it is technically justifiable when you look at it in the above terms.

Darn straight I'm saying corporations aren't inherently evil. They're a business, plain and simple. They are out to make a profit. So long as they are LEGALLY doing it, then they are not stealing.

And for you to have moral objections to their methods is a bit rich when you're advocating theft, which as far as I'm aware is ILLEGAL in every single country.

You might not share the capitalist ideals of businesses, but for the moment at least its the way the world works.

Therefore the corporation responsible for the development (which would not have been approved nowadays when we realise the importance of wetlands - but was approved in the 80's) has stolen from me the aesthetic attraction of a beautiful piece of bushland I used to enjoy walking around in and taking photos.

Fair enough then, off you go to steal from K Mart...that'll teach the bastards. 8) 8)

(I'm not arguing that wetlands should be protected, but if you're going to justify stealing from K Mart, come up with something a bit better than that.

 

[onetwothreefour]

^^^ yes, because we all know the LAW IS THE BE-ALL AND END-ALL OF MORALITY.

i assume, as a bluelighter, that you are currently a drug-taker or have taken drugs in the past? well gee-whiz, shock-fucking-horror, ya know it's illegal? it shouldn't be.

you know this.

i know this.

everyone with half a brain knows this.

point being: the law isn't always right, and to use that as the *only* justification for your pointless, hole-filled argument shows just how baseless it is.

 

[keystroke]

^^^ yes, because we all know the LAW IS THE BE-ALL AND END-ALL OF MORALITY.

i assume, as a bluelighter, that you are currently a drug-taker or have taken drugs in the past? well gee-whiz, shock-fucking-horror, ya know it's illegal? it shouldn't be.

you know this.

i know this.

everyone with half a brain knows this.

point being: the law isn't always right, and to use that as the *only* justification for your pointless, hole-filled argument shows just how baseless it is.

drug taking [pills, amphet] should never become legal unless there are regulations put in place and a standards and only then it shouldn't just be handed out willy nilly. I think legality of these drugs would cause more problems than the country can learn to deal with. look at all the idiots overdosing on alcohol every night, imagine ecstasy overdoses everyday? I'd dare say it'd be a huge medical bill for the country.

Shoplifting is still wrong though, how would you like it if someone broke into your house and stole a stash of money you had hidden away for a rainy day or stole your CD player or Playstation or something.... it doesn't feel nice haven't shit stolen, regardless of whether it's a huge corporation or not, you're ultimately stealing someones money and that is why it can't be ever looked upon as being good.

 

[shal]

I've shoplifted.

I was caught.

This was many years ago.

I stole Monopoly on Floppy disk from the reject shop.

This big fat lady grabbed me when I walked outside.

I got a belt around the ass for that! Ouch!

shals :D