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Shelf Life of GHB/GBL/1-4B

Q

Quintell

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
48
as GHB is comonly only obtainable in large quantitys. If I were to have 2.5ml doses I would have plenty to store.
I'm wondering how long it can store it before it becomes inactive/toxic.
Also what are the ideal conditions in which to store the various chemicals solds as GHB?
 
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You should still re-edit what you have said. In regards to shelf life, I don't know of specific dates, but I know of it lasting several months (minimum), just make sure to store it in glass containers, not plastic.
 
If you have GBL or 1,4b it is fine to store it in a high density polyurethane container so that the solvent wont eat through it. If it is NaGHB or KGHB i have read that the sodium or potassium can become detached from the GHB after time reverting back to GBL. I think that is why it is best to keep it slightly acidic rather than having it ph neutral. Perhaps phase_dancer, Biscuit, or Maxi know more about that? Apologies if I am incorrect.
 
I could see the reasoning behind Cowboy Mac's suggested preventative measures for the storage of GHB in an acidic environment, but I find little from published reports. To find comment I turned to the only reliable source for this type of thing.

...although knowing i'd be very much a stung bee if I mention it... 8)

On the other hand, in light of the seen importance in disseminating this sort of info, here is a selected posts from the named thread, deemed to be the most accurate. Std disclaimer applies, and as I've had nothing to do with GHB, I can't personally validate anything. The forensics paper mentioned is listed underneath. Hope this offers some helps rather than confuses.



Selected excerpt from What to do with this old GHB


Chromic
(Synaptic Self-Mutilator)
08-25-02

>In my opinion you can't convert NaGHB back into GBL.

Wrong! Add water, and you'll get GHB in water (not GBL in water). Fractionally distill the mixture, and you can recover water then GBL. Heat drives off the water, pushes the equilibrium towards an intramolecular fischer esterification to form GBL from the freebase GHB. Some of the lactone, likewise breaks apart, and the GHB (being an acid) catalyzes more GBL to break down to form GHB in water.

There's been a study to show the relative rates of reaction of GBL with water to form GHB (as it's of interest to forensic chemists). With no added acid catalyst this happens in a couple weeks. With heat, a couple hours. With heat and acid, it happens in minutes.

>Acid hydrolysis on the contrary is a reversible one and therefore not interesting to make GHB.

Not true. I used acid-catalyzed formation of GHB from GBL/water for personal consumption of large amounts. I think it's a great way to make a product that's low sodium and good to get high off of. It also doesn't strip off your muscous membranes (unlike undiluted GBL).

Adding water to GBL causes a chemical reaction to take place between the water and GBL to form GHB and water.
Click to expand...


Stock #: JFS0111
Volume: 46
Issue: 6
Year: 2001
Pages: 1315-1322
Author(s): Ciolino LA, Mesmer MZ, Satzger RD, Machal AC, McCauley HA, Mohrhaus AS
Title: The chemical interconversion of GHB and GBL: forensic issues and implications
Keywords: forensic science, gamma-butyrolactone, gamma-hydroxybutyrate, gamma-hydroxybutyric acid, GBL, GHB, high performance liquid chromatography, interconversion, stability

Abstract:

In this work, the interconversion of GHB and GBL in a variety of aqueous media was studied. The effects of solution pH and time were determined by spiking GHB or GBL into pure water and buffered aqueous solutions, and determining the GHB and GBL contents at various time intervals. The degree of GBL hydrolysis to GHB was determined for several commercial aqueous-based GBL products, and further studied as a function of time. The effects of temperature and time were also determined for five commercial beverages spiked with GHB or GBL. GHB and GBL contents were determined using high performance liquid chromatography (HPLC). GHB and/or GBL confirmations were made using gas chromatography-mass spectrometry (GC-MS) and/or infrared spectroscopy (IR).

Solution pH, time, and storage temperature were determined to be important factors affecting the rate and extent of GBL hydrolysis to GHB. Under strongly alkaline conditions (pH 12.0), GBL was completely converted to GHB within minutes. In pure water, GBL reacted to form an equilibrium mixture comprising ca. 2:1 GBL:GHB over a period of months. This same equilibrium mixture was established from either GHB or GBL in strongly acidic solution (pH 2.0) within days. A substantial portion of GBL (ca. &fract12;) was hydrolyzed to GHB in aqueous-based GBL products, and in spiked commercial beverages, after ambient storage for a period ranging from several weeks to several months.

Heat increased and refrigeration decreased the rate of GBL hydrolysis relative to ambient conditions. These studies show that hydrolysis of GBL to GHB does occur in aqueous-based solutions, with samples and time frames that are relevant to forensic testing. Implications for forensic testing and recommendations are discussed.
Click to expand...

From:The chemical interconversion of GHB and GBL: forensic issues and implications

The bottom line being; if you intend to keep GHB for long and it is not kept as a very dry salt, you will need to alter it's storage conditions if you wish to prevent formation of GBL (intramolecular esterfication).

But seeing as this occurs each and every time GHB is dissolved in std water anyway, what exactly will you acheive? There will still therefore, always be some doubt as to the correct dosage of GHB as you may not know just exactly what the ratio of GHB to GBL is.

Something which isn't mentoined is that intramolecular esterfication often produces a mixture of products. I can't say for certain if this would apply here (in fact probably not with pure GHB or GBL). But impurities in either GBL or GHB may produce other products via fischer esterfication or other pathways.
 
I guess my questions was more refering to 1-4b as it has become more common than GHB or GBL.

Note: I think I need to get a basic grip on chem to truly apreciate phase_dancer's responce , Any suggested entry level reading?
 
afaik, it is very stable, tho most reports state that it is highly hydroscopic (absorbs water easily) so the best bet is to keep it in a tightly sealed container... preferably not plastic

Maxi
 
Quintell, if your basic knowledge is at year 11-12 level, then one of the best things you could do short of enrolling in a science course at Uni, is to get the study guides an texts from someone who has previously done the course. Chem 101 A & B or the equivalent, (Introduction to Chemical Sciences & Essential Chemical Principles)

If you then want more organic chem, get either text by Brown or Mc Murry and ask lots of questions. Good luck and good on you for wanting to learn more and be one of the smart users who knows the nuts and bolts of his poison of choice
14.gif
 
A couple of threads back someone posted the MSDS for GHB, 1-4, and GBL and that has a fair bit of info in it too.
 
phase_dancer said:
Quintell, if your basic knowledge is at year 11-12 level, then one of the best things you could do short of enrolling in a science course at Uni, is to get the study guides an texts from someone who has previously done the course. Chem 101 A & B or the equivalent, (Introduction to Chemical Sciences & Essential Chemical Principles)

If you then want more organic chem, get either text by Brown or Mc Murry and ask lots of questions. Good luck and good on you for wanting to learn more and be one of the smart users who knows the nuts and bolts of his poison of choice
14.gif
Click to expand...
I did phsyics in yr 11 and 12 so I haven't even got that level of understanding
I realy need to start from scratch. I'll see if I can find a friends old Yr 11 and 12 text books

Thanks
 
Most Universities have a revision course based on year 11 & 12.

If you want to pay for the postage, I'll send you my old study guides and the text for free. That way I'll have space for my new texts on my overburdened bookshelfs :)

They weigh just under 1.1kg and I live in Qld. If you're interested, PM me.


There is one condition. With the exception of one question, it's all pretty easy stuff. Just don't ask me to explain the one question which is far above the course level. It concerns a balloon; you'll know it if you see it. I don't know why they threw this in, but for whatever reason, the question was also in the exam.

I did this course in 96 at a cost of $400. It's still relevant, because it's nuts and bolts stuff and doesn't change much over time.
 
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OK, but I possibly steered this thread way off course. Let's now return to subject; Shelf life of GHB/GBL/1,4-B
 
Phase_Dancer, you are quiet possibly the coolest person alive.

That is all.

/Sorry about the re-hijack:)

Kid_Cisco.
 
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