Seeing true reality as it really is on psychedelics(especially on LSD and 5-meo-dmt)?

[veronika96]

Hello! I haven't taken any psychedelics myself yet, unfortunately, but I'm extremely into hearing about other people's experiences, and things like what is real, what is reality, the Universe and these kinds of stuff... Anyone who has ever tried LSD, DMT, 5-meo-DMT or any other psychedelic drug, PLEASE, feel free to respond here.
There is a very interesting quote by Federico Fellini, after he took LSD: "Objects and their functions no longer had any significance. All I perceived was perception itself, the hell of forms and figures devoid of human emotion and detached from the reality of my unreal environment. I was an instrument in a virtual world that constantly renewed its own meaningless image in a living world that was itself perceived outside of nature. And since the appearance of things was no longer definitive but limitless, this paradisiacal awareness freed me from the reality external to myself. The fire and the rose, as it were, became one.”
What I wonder is, do you think that psychedelic drugs remove the barriers of your human, emotional perception so that you see Reality and all the Universe around as it really is, in it's true essence, just like... it's Something... a thing?? I cannot explain myself but I wonder if these chemicals let you perceive all the stuff detached in complete silence from human's noise of emotions and thoughts that pollute and define everything??? Thanks for responding!!!

 

[pupnik]

Federico's comment was obviously formulated when no longer deeply under the influence so it is not an accurate description separate from his preconceived cosmology - which is a bit nihilistic and cornucopic.
But it is true that perception (the ability to recognize things) is altered and depending on dosage, you can have a veritable ocean of partially conceived recollections intermingled with the debris of your persisting environment and sensations.
Trails does not only apply to visual trails left behind when an object crosses you visual field, but it also applies to any mental content that arises including feelings, sensations, ideas, and memorable sequences, songs, etc.

the amazing new things that happen are artifacts of combinations of the usual layered together because of persistence, or echoes, or reverberance, of which there is much more (dosage dependent)

A nice thing that occurs with many people is that they follow sensation in the moment more to better handle tripping out tangentially on any and every issue. By being more in the moment (defensively perhaps to begin with) you hear and feel things approaching from further away which puts you more in touch with synchronous reality.

 

[mindseye888]

From experience only dissociative holes have crashed down the conscience barriers. Dxe, mxe and 3-meo-pcp are the ones that have done it for me.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

In my first mushroom trip I believed I could see every molecule of the air and all materials around me. Not quite at the atomic scale but I saw their spheres of influence and the effects they had on eachother.

That hallucination I believe was a reflection of my view of reality. I like to read about the interactions of particles, atoms, and molecules so it reflected that in my trip. If you believe that reality is time and space and there are concrete events that happen in the universe then your mind is just a tool to perceive these events.

When you alter your brain chemistry with psychedelics you are perceiving these events in a different way. They are still the same events but your mind is finding new meaning in them which makes them seem wholly different than what they once were. I think this also applies to your own thought patterns too. You can start with a simple thought and before you know it you've morphed it into something completely foreign. This is my take on it and it's definitely an interesting topic.

 

[Emptty]

I feel as if the one big thing I've learned in experimenting with psychedelics (specifically LSD and DOC) is that part of understanding life is understanding the limitations of the human brain to understand life in the first place.

I do think there is some extra understanding of reality we open up to when under the influence of psychedelic substances, whether that be seeing our existing reality from a new perspective or taking note of something entirely new. However the mind when not under the influence of psychedelics is no longer open to and able to process these things the same way, you can recall some revelations you may have had during a trip but integrating them all into a coherent understanding of their meaning isn't something the human brain can do on it's own because in our natural state we are limited to only understanding the world at a certain level. Approaching a trip with a state of mindfulness like pupnik mentioned helps to make it more enjoyable because you no longer are in a state of constantly trying to find answers to questions that you may not have answers for, but it also prevents a lot of the more deep revelations I feel psychedelics are meant to create.

I'm not saying nobody has ever successfully integrated an experience they had on psychedelics into a coherent revelation while sober, just that the trips that lead to forgetting your revelations seem to be more common than those that lead to a new understanding of the world. I noticed the inability to create a coherent understanding of the reality I experienced on LSD each time I did it, and even then I was only exploring concepts like human connection and sense of individuality. When I did DOC I tried to understand the concept of divinity and the one message I took back from that trip, that both stuck with me and was entirely coherent even once the trip was over, is that there are certain things that human beings cannot and should not seek an understanding of.

 

[pupnik]

like your basic sense of timing (clock rate) has shifted - alternative synchronization takes over - when time gets funny you will encounter things that do not occur normally, and when you return to this state you re-encounter similar things that you had not seen since the last time you were so stoned. In this way it really seems to be another place, or universe, it can become familiar, it is a bit like home, a place I knew in childhood's dreams.

 

[pupnik]

...the one message I took back from that trip, that both stuck with me and was entirely coherent even once the trip was over, is that there are certain things that human beings cannot and should not seek an understanding of.

this is very funny, and that "certain things exist that some human beings cannot and should not seek understanding of" can be interpreted many useful ways:
1. practical stoner insight - stay in the groove of the moment and don't trip out tangentially on trying to understand that which is at a meaninglessly different scale of reality.
2. in this state of mind I actually can't think linearly, and parallel simultaneous concepts (like when really stoned) are not logical (like Alice's Looking Glass world).
3. the momentum of a (group) discussion is proceeding into a direction that does not accommodate clear thinking (those speaking cannot be reasoned with)
4. a person can't understand their own question because they are too "excited" (sometimes the mind goes in circles - does not rise for a breath of fresh air, and nothing new can get in)

 

[Emptty]

this is very funny, and that "certain things exist that some human beings cannot and should not seek understanding of" can be interpreted many useful ways:
1. practical stoner insight - stay in the groove of the moment and don't trip out tangentially on trying to understand that which is at a meaninglessly different scale of reality.
2. in this state of mind I actually can't think linearly, and parallel simultaneous concepts (like when really stoned) are not logical (like Alice's Looking Glass world).
3. the momentum of a (group) discussion is proceeding into a direction that does not accommodate clear thinking (those speaking cannot be reasoned with)
4. a person can't understand their own question because they are too "excited" (sometimes the mind goes in circles - does not rise for a breath of fresh air, and nothing new can get in)

First off I appreciate the correction in adding the word some to what I said and not allowing it to remain a universal statement, I was definitely writing that post from my own perspective and my own conclusion that I am not equipped to seek that understanding. I have less experience with psychedelics than with most drug classes and chances are they're simply not the best drug class for me to be messing with. Others may be perfectly able to handle what comes of the things they experience during a strong trip and I shouldn't have made such a blanket statement there.

During that particular experience I reached a state that was arguably severe psychosis, not simply a psychedelic trip and I do believe that affected what I took from it. The conclusion I came to was more along the lines of divinity is on a different scale of reality that, were I to try, I may be able to understand however it would require going beyond my capacities as a human thus putting myself through a great deal of pain to understand something that throughout the trip seemed to insist it did not want to be understood. It was somewhat along the lines of what you describe in the first point on that list but it was less stay in the groove of the moment/don't trip over things you can't understand and more don't seek answers to questions until you're truly prepared for the answer, however terrifying or unexpected it may be.

I had jumped the gun in taking DOC as my only prior psychedelic experience was with LSD which is on a massively lower level of strength during most trips. I still feel I've never pulled any useful insight from and acid trip but I enjoyed them so feel no opposition to doing LSD again in the future. When it comes to DOC and other stronger psychedelic substances I'm pretty much done. I wouldn't go back on the experience I had by any means, I feel it was an important thing for me to have gone through at least once. To see god in a mirror and feel what it's like to have the inherent divinity of the universe channeled through you is an awful yet mind blowing experience. But as much as I appreciate having done it once I don't feel eager to repeat it. I'll leave that to those with more experience and stronger ability to handle the more difficult insights about reality that can arise during a trip.

 

[pupnik]

In case #4

4. a person can't understand their own question because they are too "excited" (sometimes the mind goes in circles - does not rise for a breath of fresh air, and nothing new can get in)

one needs compassionate patience, the looping is defensive, the self needs to feel unthreatened before they can see what is in front of them. Can apply to self as well as others, and may pertain to #3 too (groups can seem stupid, like science deniers in the white house colluding with alternate facts).

Rome was not conquered in a day.

 

[samm2]

I like this Federico Fellini already

Another quote "There is no end. There is no beginning. There is only the infinite passion of life."

another "A different language is a different vision of life."

 

[veronika96]

Thank you to Everyone who responded, I appreciate it!!! I hope someday I get to get that feeling myself and experience it... Sadly I have no idea how do I find LSD or DMT or anything, I live in Eastern Europe (Bulgaria) and it's hard to find it + I have no friends who do drugs but... I don't lose hope...
Do you think that this door of the perception or of the mind, could be opened also with meditation and not with drugs?? I remember when I starved myself for six days (not for losing weight, I felt like something inside me "forced" me to do this as I suffered from depression back then), just closed myself and didn't talk to anyone, didn't even turn on the lights and TV and in the 6th evening, I felt the most incredible peace and feeling of being here in the moment, I felt like I and the most distant place in the universe were one - like it could be my home!!! And I didn't need anything physically... I had some peaceful and loving insight, I even grabbed a pen and wrote a poem about the stars, I felt that this night, after the depressions, it changed my life!!! And since then my interest in spirituality, meditation, psychedelics, self-improvement started..... Do you think that one can get in touch with reality and the beauty of existence even without the drugs???

 

[pupnik]

yes

 

[veronika96]

What I forgot to mention is that from then, I started thinking a lot about the Universe, about different philosophies like Nihilism, Existentialism and etc. and I started having this insight or, I started looking upon everything - everything, and people and myself includingly, like it's just... Something... Uff I can't explain myself... I just started having these "flashes" that reality is really strange... like I'm in one dimension that is weird and that could be ANYTHING???

P.S. Thank you, pupnik!

 

[LucidSDreamr]

^ some people say that you can with many many years of hard practice and meditation...but whats the point when you can take a psychedelic and get there instantly.

I would look into lucid dreaming if I were you and you can't access drugs. You can train yourself to do it and although its not really like psychedelic drugs at all, it is quite a trip and fun way to experience an alternate reality.


I would imagine there are drugs like mushrooms in bulgaria, or you could order the spores and grow them yourself if its legal to do so there (not the growing, but the ording of the spores is legal even in the US)

 

[veronika96]

Well, there are all kinds of drugs here too, I know about people who've smoked dmt or taken LSD and mushrooms but it's really hard to find them when you don't know such people... People here are more close minded... My biggest dream is to take 5-meo-dmt... Thanks for helping me, I believe that those who search - eventually find....

 

[spacejunk]

Do you think that one can get in touch with reality and the beauty of existence even without the drugs???

yes, absolutely.
but i don't really think psychedelic states are as revelatory as they often feel at the time.
i think some feelings of revelation and expanded consciousness on psychedelics like LSD are 'genuine', but sometimes it is more of a feeling, and a delusion.

From experience only dissociative holes have crashed down the conscience barriers. Dxe, mxe and 3-meo-pcp are the ones that have done it for me.

hehe, i've experienced that from those 3 dissociatives as well - and agree, they better fit that Fellini quote
i have taken so much acid that i've had periods where i lose touch with reality altogether during the trip, and end up kind of dissociated and not-all-there, but didn't really glean much from it.

 

[veronika96]

Hey people, may I use this thread, to ask you something that I've wondered about since I remember??? Can somebody tell me, why when I go to sleep sometimes, or when I just close my eyes for a while (not always, however) I see these neverending indescribable patterns, pictures, colors, fractals, I wonder why is that, it's been since I was a little kid?? People say that your eyes do this but I think it's the brain??? Could it be DMT in small dosages released in the brain as you're falling asleep???

 

[spacejunk]

nobody knows, but i'm sceptical about claims like that.
i'd say it's the transition into sleep from a waking state, but that's just me. DMT's effects are a lot more profound and consciousness-altering than seeing a few closed-eye patterns

 

[pupnik]

Falling asleep and waking up are interesting - you go from waking consciousness into unconsciousness and back:

consider this
go to sleep and wake up:
waking consciousness ---------patterns &c-------- unconsciousness ----------dreams-------waking consciousness

vs getting extremely stoned and then coming down again:
waking consciousness -----stoned ---v.stoned----- unconsciousness ---v.stoned---stoned---waking consciousness

just saying.

 

[veronika96]

pupnik, this is very interesting really!!! What do you think we become, or where do we go in your opinion, while being unconscious??? Do we go anywhere? Do you think while we have REM sleep, we might have DMT experience and just don't remember it? Just please, share anything you think about sleeping!!