Searching for Vinyl? I can get you ANY SONG ON VINYL!

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PhreeX

Bluelight Crew
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Wow, I didn't even know there was a forum here for music, I glanced at the topic and thought it was a code for something, since raves are about drugs, the music is just there to enhance the experience....

Anyway, it's been a long time since I actually purchased any vinyl, but a problem I had then, and one I understand is an even BIGGER PROBLEM at the current time, is finding that specific song on vinyl... you know, it might be that anthem that's been out of print for 10 years, or that song that's only available as the new "remix" that sounds nothing like the original .. or perhaps it's that track that was a limited release, or perhaps.....? You get the idea!

Well, in my never ending search for ways to make money I have one that seems to have potential.. sure, the whole MDMA/Meth manufacture thing was profitable, but in todays legal climate, and given my current status as a member of the "Supervised Population" I don't think I could stand having my door booted in again... besides, it's been so long since I used either drug I wouldn't know who to sell to ... that's just bad news, worse as I still have a few years on felony probation ... the whole selling my body thing showed great potential at first, but when I quit posing as an attractive 18 y/o female it kinda went to hell ... I can make some kick-ass stuff in metal (I made this really awesome Matrix style computer desk) but the shipping on something that weighs 500+lbs would cost a hell of a lot, plus even with my new MIG welder, the turnaround time would still be slow ... there was also a great amount of money to be made scamming faceless corporations, but again, even Mail Boxes Etc. got a little curious when I'd receive a Gateway or Dell computer box every day, often more then one box per day, each addressed to a different name ..

BUT THIS TIME I HAVE A GOOD IDEA - or so I think, I am posting this as I want some feedback to see if it's worth the investment...

In short - I will purchase a vinyl cutter, but not the cheap ones, rather one that actually uses heat and cuts into a heavier type of vinyl... while doing my research into this it seems that most of the at-home cutters simply slice into cheap vinyl and over time the record will degrade in quality, well, for my investment of around $7,500 total I can get the setup to produce something that will give a finished product as good or even slightly better then a pressed record you'd buy at your local record shop...

Ok, so I have the vinyl cutter, how does that get you the music? And the answer to that is simple - I can cut a record for ANYTHING .. you can send me music in any electronic medium (wave, mp3, etc..) and I can cut it ... you have a record you want a backup copy of? You can send that and I can make a perfect copy of that as well... now of course since we all know how wrong it is to pirate music, it is assumed that any source music you'd send me would be music you'd already own, hold the copyright to, or have express written permission from the copyright holder.... I would be taking your word for it so you wouldn't have to actually send me any documentation of this ... and yes, copyright laws do provide that the owner of the original is allowed to make a backup copy, in this case, I would simply be making the backup on vinyl VS another format ...

I have yet to make the purchase, but have done many, many hours of research into which setup is best and what all I need to buy.. this could also be a GREAT WAY for someone to get their original music out on vinyl (ie say you composed something and don't have the money to have a plate cut and records pressed, well, I can now put YOUR MUSIC on vinyl) ...

Yes, I have heard plenty of argument against this from people saying that if the record is out of press, then you shouldn't be entitled to it, or that if it's some famous DJ's "signature song" then you shouldn't be allowed to have it... sorry, you can't convince me that it's wrong - shit, do you think that DJ's that spin CD's own the original for EVERY TRACK THEY SPIN? Hell no, in fact a friend that spins CD's doesn't own a single one, ALL OF HIS are pulled offline, and I know this to be the case for many other CD DJ's (in the above mentioned case, he added a CD player to his tables because he needed some songs that are simply not available on vinyl anymore)

So, that's how this will work .. not sure about what the prices will be, but it will be a good deal - not much more then what current records go for, and if you have ever priced used vinyl (the rare stuff) this will be an INCREDIBLE DEAL ... you will be paying BY THE RECORD, so if you wanted 2 different tracks (or more, depends on the length of the song) it's all the same price ..

My questions to YOU:

1) If I do this I will setup my own website, where would one advertise such a service?

2) How much is a good price for your standard 12" record?

3) Any producers out there that would be interested in bulk deals? Pricing?

That's about it.. if the response I receive here is as positive as it was on IRC I will order everything and be open for business come the new year .. any specific questions can be addressed via this message, just post a reply, I will check it from time to time...

Thanks for your input!
 
1) If I do this I will setup my own website, where would one advertise such a service?
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any music forum, esp. those for electronic genres/djing with lots of aspiring artists around (the net is full of them)

2) How much is a good price for your standard 12" record?
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$8


3) Any producers out there that would be interested in bulk deals? Pricing?
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not being a producer i can't answer that one.



i'm not entirely sure about the durability... but sine you said you will get one that can actually work hard wax and not that wobbly 'jamaican 30 cent dubplate' crap i guess that might be fine.


add: the range of bitrates usually varies from 128kbps (unfortunately VERY common) to 192kbps (currently 'the' way to go, if done with lame & --alt-presets in 192) - anyway, if you press mp3s on vinyl it will sound rather bad on the dancefloor.. i'm a huge fan of mp3, but it's still a lossy format (check the hydrogenaudio forum for any deeper insights).. what i'm trying to say is, if you cut a 128kbps mp3 into a plate you can't use it on the dancefloor.. i would clearly state that either wav or any other 'uncompressed' format is required if the vinyl will be used in a club or similar environment.. i can see how it's very appealing to just slap some hard to find mp3 on wax, but it doesn't necessarily sound good.
 
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excellent, it would be nice to have some originals on wax. if you do this, oyull definitely get some business from me.
atri
 
The average cost is $10, for house/trance etc.

Hiphop is usually around $6-$7.

It's usually priced: $10 import, $6-$7 stateside made. Hence, local house would be $7.

As for advertising, I'm sure if all the djs/producers on this forum chipped in a couple webaddresses you would have a ton of places to post a thread. But...I wouldn't really want you to do that...because I am sure you will get nailed with some hefty fines or sent back to jail. My advice to you is, don't do that shit unless you know the people.

A better thing to do is to go to a local dj/hiphop/clothing/ store, musical equipment store, anywhere where djs/producers might hang out. See if you can post an advertisment to cut vinyl for people. Usually it's a real outrageous amount, so if you got people trying to break into the scene you could give them a good deal and get a lot of traffic.

I would advise checking out the local punk rocker hangouts. A lot of them collect vinyl, and they might be interested changing cds->vinyl for shit they could never get. And I know a lot of punk rock bands would love to have their own shit on vinyl.

Bottom line...don't copy for strangers over the internet. You will get busted eventually. And a lot of forums might not even want you there since you are promoting piracy. True, you can back up peoples already bought music. But you they can't prove they own it over the internet, and in court who is the judge gonna believe...the billion dollar record industry who has lost millions in profits due to piracy, or an ex drug dealer who once wrote up on bluelight how it feels to shoot up X?

I would suggest you burn originals for producers on the internet, stick to copying in person.
 
yO.. wussup phreex

thats a great idea man but check it... the biggest "concern" most will have i'm sure is the quality of the recorded track. clearly most people will send you mp3s as this is the format which most people use/ download.

people buy vinyl for many reasons, but most would agree they use vinyl because vinyl is noted for having a warmer cleaner sound to it. however depending on the format people send you (and nobody has a .wav format of a track unless they already ripped it from their pre-existing vinyl) the quality of the sound will be greatly diminished and therefore voids the whole point of getting the track on vinyl. did that make sense? hope so...
and lets face it, the scheme behind this setup isn't to make backup copies, its to get tracks on vinyl that you were not able to get for whatever reason. and if for some strange reason someone was doing this for the "backup" reason... it would be foolish because why make a backup onto vinyl, when cd is much cheaper/easier (unless they don't have a cd deck to mix from) but still, you get my point i think.

i wish there was a way to guarantee that the track is recorded from a .wav format, but obviously that isn't possible. let me know what you think of my "observations/comments". but i am still interested as it sounds like it could be a nice idea!
 
Figure out how much it'll cost you to cut 10 minutes of music (one side of a 12" can hold about 22 minutes of music at okay quality, 10 minutes at high quality), and charge by the minute at different quality levels. Take into account the cost of the machine, the cost of materials, postage, marketing and the opportunity cost of the time you'll spend cutting and checking each side of a 12" (probably 30 to 45 minutes a side). You'll have trouble charging more than $40 for one side (be it 10 or 25 minutes), as that's about as much as people will pay for acetate dubs.

My guess is that unless you have a lot of (working) DJ contacts or do promo work for some labels you won't make your money back. The sound quality may well be shitty without mastering, so pressing records for bedroom producers probably won't bring you too much business.
 
if the owners of the rights to any songs you make the records from find out, you'll probably be sued. But that said, its a good idea long as you don't get caught. Shit i know i have a few songs that are very hard to find/very expensive on vinyl.
 
Around here (Central Florida) any new releases or "hot" pieces of vinyl go for between $8-$15, given then the extra heavy blank discs cost about $2 each, and given that I could be possibly the ONLY WAY to get an old track on vinyl, I would probably charge around $15 + s/h - and I think that's fair, especially if you have been looking for that "special track" for 5 years but it's been out of press for 10, your only other option might be to buy it off a DJ that has it, and having bought rare vinyl off fellow DJ's (back when I was spinning on open deck night at a local club, I wasn't that good) .. if you're lucky enough to find a DJ that has the track you want and is willing to sell, you could pay over $50 ... so you gotta take into consideration that there is more to this then buying a piece of vinyl, the contents are where the money really is ...

As for not being able to get a WAVE (.wav) of the file, an mp3 at 192kbps at some ultra high MHz (I don't even know what the range is) will almost have the quality of a .wav ... also, if anyone out there happens to be good with any music editing software that could be another service - having the quality of the song tweaked with .. i know nothing about that type thing but I'm sure there are people here that would be willing to do that if their time and efforts were compensated ... also, you can rip a track off a CD as there are some of those "ultra rare songs" that CAN be found on a CD - you could rip it ... of course EVERY RECORD I cut will be played back to ensure that it really sounds good, if it sounds like shit I wouldn't want my name tied to it (more so, the name of the company I decide to make up, "PhreeX" won't be apart of that)

And as for "security" - I NEVER register a domain name with any legit information, I have a list a mile long of HTTP proxies as well as FTP proxies, and there is no shortage of hosts outside the US.. for cosmetic purposes I would have the obligatory page long disclaimer about this being for backup purposes.. the return shipping address as well as the address to which payment would be sent (money order only, "Pay To" line left blank) as well as the return address on the packages would be, well, lets just say this doesn't present a risk to me, and you'll just have to take my word for it ... furthermore, I won't be doing something like hosting a site full of pirated music, nor will I be offering a list of records I have cut or songs I have available - so really, the website itself could be read into as offering an illegal service, but that's only speculation... all of these people that are being sued by the RIAA (remember, that's an American Corporation, so my .de, .tk or .ru website that would trace route to a foreign host would fall outside of their jurisdiction) .. all info like the payment mailing address wouldn't be published on the site, so an inquiry would have to be made.. furthermore, payment can even be sent to a re-mailer service located in Germany that I have used before (they will re-mail a letter for only $1.25 + postage, so for like $1.75 you can have it re-mailed via USPS to a private mail box - and the re-mailer won't ever let the destination address be made public to the sender, then for double redundancy the mailbox in the US isn't even in my name - but as I said, the sender wouldn't even have this address! Paranoid? No, it's just taking the needed precautions.

Of course with any correspondence I would AGAIN be disclaiming the service as a BACKUP SERVICE ONLY, and if I REALLY wanted to be paranoid I could refuse to do business with anyone that would openly ask me to make them a record of a track they didn't own - you know, it's all in the verbiage... you don't email me saying "damn I have never been able to find this track before, maybe you can help me by cutting a record" - rather you say "here is a track I'd like backed up onto vinyl" ...

Again, these are details that would be worked out if I decide to actually setup a website - a private message I just received said that I could easily do 100-200 copies of a record that this individual produced.. it only takes a few of these 200+ record orders to make this pay off, and for bulk orders, I could drop the price so it's profitable for the artist as well as myself, in fact, while starting up, I might have to do bulk orders with myself making minimal or no profit (just break even) until the initial investment is paid off..

But keep the feedback coming so I can decide if I want to drop the money on it.. there is also money to be made for "advertising assistants" given I can name you 30 message boards for drug related issues, I can't name more then 2 (this site included) for DJ's and music producers.. so yeah, I'd be happy to pay people to generate hits and in turn sales..
 
you could just have the djs send it to you in .wav format only. If the quality isn't that good, they can just put it in sound forge and tweak it a bit.
 
PhreeX said:
a private message I just received said that I could easily do 100-200 copies of a record that this individual produced..
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Are you getting a vinyl cutter or a press? Cutting 100-200 records is going to take a looooonnng time.


Mystic Styles said:
If the quality isn't that good, they can just put it in sound forge and tweak it a bit.
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You have to know what you are doing to properly master sound for vinyl, the majority of people would fuck it up if they tried to do it in sound forge. If he's getting a cutter, he might get away with just tweaking...but the sound quality will never be as good.
 
At first I was told that the cutters could never comeclose to matching the quality of a press, but after doing a lot of research on it I found an (expensive) cutter that does, in fact, produce records of quality on the same level of any pressed record ... ofcourse pressing would be impractical as you first have to cut a di then press, and that it like $20,000+, just cutting the di will cost you a shit load of money - DEFINITLY not practical for one record unless yer willing to pay hundreds if not thousands for that single record ... but I'm also not cutting into the weak vinyl that most of the < $3,500-$5,000 cutters work with ... those are "cold cutters" where the cutting tip uses no heat, and the grooves are not as deep as a pressed record, the setup I am looking at uses heat and cuts into a much harder and thicker material, its a mix of vinyl actate, lacquer and polyvinylchloride (PVC) .. the groove cut is about 3/4th's deeper then you get with the cold-cutting machines (like the one Vestex makes that hooks up to a regular turntable) .. now this cutter can be adapted for either, and if you want the BEST SOUND you need the DEEPEST CUTS and that limits you to about 6-8 minutes per side, if you're willing to go for a more shallow cut you can fit about twice as much on a 12" record ... as for how long these last - according to some of the forums where I have talked to people that have the setup, it will last you as long as any pressed record .. again, I am going to send a .wav of a record I have to one of the guys I have been talking to that has the setup I am thinking about, he said if I paid him $20 he would do it... I will then compare it to the real record and see how it sounds ...

Again, the idea of this thread is to see what type of intrest there is, specifics will come if I decide to get into this investment... thats a lot of money and I could furnish my metal shop with all the stuff I still need for that much...
 
first of all no you won't get sued. nobody gives a fuck if you sell a record to someone of their song for 20 bucks. second, you would have to charge a lot more than 7 bucks per record if you did it. I would charge $25-$50 a record and put up to 4 tracks on it. If anybody bitches that would be stupid because its worth that much to have 4 of your favorite songs that you don't have on vinyl all on the same record. thats a fair price for being able to mix and match A sides of dope records. and last but not least, i'm sure you would have to do some extensive mastering. the phono input on a mixer boosts your low end by 15-20 dbs and takes your high end down about 15-20 dbs. so you would have to put it onto vinyl with tons of highs and no bass pretty much or it would sound like complete shit and skip around on the vinyl from all the bass.
 
In case you don't feel like reading my entire reply, here's a short summary...bad idea, will never work.

Ok, here's the long explanation:

First off, cutters are NOT for vinyl format. Cutters are used for making acetate dubplates, vinyl is made through pressing which requires substantially more equipment and know how (the exact reason that imports are better sound quality than domestics.) Depending on the quality of the acetate and the cutting job, a dubplate will last 20-50 plays. After that, the sound quality will begin to drop off as the needle tears up the metal plate.

Acetate cutting services already exist, and will cut anything you send to them. Normal prices are $50 for a 12" and $40 for a 10" due to the cost of mastering (which is something that MUST be done, you can't just cut whatever somebody sends you and expect it to sound good.)

If it's the Vestax "vinyl" cutter (the vrx-2000) that you're talking about, this is an entirely different ballpark. Rather than the acetate plates, that cut what they like to call Harm Plates which they sell exclusively. The claim is that they don't have the short lifespan of acetate. However, I have heard cuttings on these things, and they sound like absolute crap. PC Synergy (you guys who know house know who they are) live here in Jacksonville and run a local studio, and they have one in there. Trust me, these things sound like total crap, and any respectable dj is going to hate the product you send them.

The world of dubplates is quickly dying, even in the bigtime dj world, people are moving to cd's and/or mp3 players like Final Scratch for their playing of unreleased tunes. What's happening these days are the very first copies of a track that are sent out (or even just played by the producer themselves) are on cd until the initial promo pressing is done.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend trying this, but hey, it's your money.
 
don't these vinyul cutters only give you like 20 plays???

I do 20 plays in my bedroom let alone travelling gigs...

i would just invest in a CDJ...
 
^^^ or Final Scratch


you'd do better to invest in one of the CD towers-printers
thingies and charge folks for Dj demos and whatever...
 
i can't possibly see this idea working:
-illegal (for repressing rare tracks)
-poor sound quality
-low profit
-increase of CD-R's
 
im not going to lie i didnt read most of that never seen so many long posts 8)

anyways whover said 192 kbs was equal to sound quality of wavs was dead wrong just so ya know and this would have been a good idea..... maby but theres final scratch so whats the point? and yea its going to cut shittier quality the dam things analog you have to get setting exactly right and u can break the dam things just by pumping to much sound into them

i diod some research like a year ago
 
I rip my vinyl at the MAX KBS... don't waste your money... I have a vestax and like already stated, it's complete shit.
 
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