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Scientology: redeeming values?

TheMiddleWay

TheMiddleWay

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Nov 5, 2011
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114
Few things are more controversial then scientology. The name implies the study of science, which runs.... a bit contrary to what they believe. I know the xenu story, but I've read places scientology is not about that literally. Are they saying that because once word got out, they knew they were screwed? Does anyone here believe that L. Ron Hubbard was more than a conman and mediocre writer?

Just curious for others perspective. I'd prefer if this doesn't turn into an anti-psychiatry/psychology discussion.

If what I wrote is a bit negative on them, defend away.
 
I opened dianetics for kicks once. Read that you can loose up to 15 pounds being audited. Because of some quasi-intellectual wannabe scifi garbage. Closed it. put it down. It's bullshit. Just as (even more) bullshit as mormanism.

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AIDS is a state of mind, not a disease. — Scientologist Jenna Elfman , Daily Radar, December 1999
 
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L Ron Hubbard was seen several times remarking he could make a lot of money by starting a religion.

from what i've been told, scientology is a 'behind the scenes' power sturcture. they are well connected. bit like the modern freemasons, if you're in, you'll get ahead in your chosen career even if you're weak at it.

went to see one speak twice- the same one. first time he promised there'd be space for questions at the end but 'ran out of time' so second time we jumped straight in and he squirmed. most honest people don't mind being questioned about their beliefs.

finally- the dianetics machine thing has been proved to do nohting (source- one of the disinfomration books, v well referenced books, don't remember which, plus even the speaker admitted it fails controlled trials). however i'd surmise that it does do something- other than make a shitload of money for the 'church' as it costs a lot. they recommend up to 8 hours per day of this shit. whilst preoccupied with that machine, how likely are you to engage your brain in other forms of scholarship/enquiry? it just reinforces brainwashing.
 
Not disagreeing with either of you in the slightest.

I just can't seem to understand whether these are weak minded people following the crowd, or results minded people pretending to follow for personal benefit.

Hubbard was second rate. Imagine if asimov had started his own belief system, he'd have been a bit better at designing something a bit less obviously fabricated. Seriously, when we audit the poor thetans with their brainwashed mind we help the eternal super creatures who were brought here on dc-8 looking aircraft which latent memories caused us to produce....

For being anti-social science they sure rely on it's terms.
 
It's a reasonable modern religion considering it is reflecting the values of the media driven society with which we are mired.
Which is a long winded way of saying I feel it faker than most older religions.
 
B9 said:
It's a reasonable modern religion considering it is reflecting the values of the media driven society with which we are mired.
Which is a long winded way of saying I feel it faker than most older religions.
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That kind off thought is extremely unsettling, and couldn't be more true.

Orwell looks less likely to have predicted the way, than the disgusting frivolities of Huxley. I find that more disturbing. In 1984, you could disagree, they could make you renounce it, but you still had the sanctity of the short time with contrary belief.

In Brave New World you openly accept this freakish shallow life. You indulge pleasure without passion, keeping busy doing fun stuff, without true joy. Sex without love. Unbelievably horrible, and the fact that you indulge in all of it without despair.

Social media is leeching our soul, but where are they taking it?
 
I'm anti-psychiatry too, but this Tom Cruise interview sucks. He makes a few decent points, but ultimately fucks it up because he's steeped in that scientology stuff.
But, Fuck Matt Lauer too, he's the ultra-conventional stooge of the mainstream media.
I certainly no fan of Scientology, but it doesn't bother me if someone wants to have it as a relegion.
 
It some what bothers me that a mediocre science fiction writer with out much special to say could wield the influence he did by claiming he knew the past further back then the estimated age if the universe. What trivial garbage. What mindless rubble. Auditing? Freeing yourself by utilizing someone freer than you? It obviously was Hubbard's idea as he was the first enlightened one so he goes through exertions in the process. What crazed shit.

As for anti-psychiatry, with no coercion, what is the problem with voluntary treatment? Do you feel the same about psychology?

It is kind of disturbing how close the pharmaceutical industry it's to psychiatry.

My father was a clinical psychologist, and didn't really like the psychiatrists views, as they tried to wipe out the psychology department at the major medical school he went to. My father believed in the humanistic approach to psychology (see Carl Rogers ).
 
chinup said:
finally- the dianetics machine thing has been proved to do nohting (source- one of the disinfomration books, v well referenced books, don't remember which, plus even the speaker admitted it fails controlled trials). however i'd surmise that it does do something- other than make a shitload of money for the 'church' as it costs a lot. they recommend up to 8 hours per day of this shit. whilst preoccupied with that machine, how likely are you to engage your brain in other forms of scholarship/enquiry? it just reinforces brainwashing.
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No the machine works, it is just a volt meter with two polar metal handles. if you connected a volt meter to a piece of copper and zinc and held it in your palms it would do the same thing.
 
hiphophippy the point of it not working is that the 'auditor' cannot perform the audit without being in the same room as the 'auditee.' so the information he gets is not from the machine alone. as you might have noticed, wiring yourself up to an electrochemical cell doesn't have much of a profound spiritual effect.
 
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chinup said:
hiphophippy the point of it not working is that the 'auditor' cannot perform the audit without being in the same room as the 'auditee.' so the information he gets is not from the machine alone. as you might have noticed, wiring yourself up to an electrochemical cell doesn't have much of a profound spiritual effect.
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I'm aware. I'm talking specifically about the Newtonian mechanics of it.
 
I'm starting to think they know it realty doesn't do shit, the people being audited are asked bizarre ass questions. "have you every had sex with an animal?"

They keep a file on responses, though say it's private with a purely verbal reassurance. Who would leave this crazy ass clon when they have compromising information about you. I'm sure many are less likely to.
 
I think people should be bothered that people want to follow Scientology because there are mountains of evidence of how they rob gullible people of all their money, use intimidation and criminal tactics against those who oppose them, and claim to provide services which are based on science fiction stories, so a lot of people will end up not getting help they really need because they walked by the Scientology place.

But the fact that they can build it up just like that and get followers I think gives additional support to the fact that all religions are man made.
 
dannymac said:
I think people should be bothered that people want to follow Scientology because there are mountains of evidence of how they rob gullible people of all their money, use intimidation and criminal tactics against those who oppose them, and claim to provide services which are based on science fiction stories, so a lot of people will end up not getting help they really need because they walked by the Scientology place.

But the fact that they can build it up just like that and get followers I think gives additional support to the fact that all religions are man made.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) Fair game policy? I met a guy who was fair game once. he has to move every few years to avoid being murdered.
 
hiphophippy said:
I'm aware. I'm talking specifically about the Newtonian mechanics of it.
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then call it an electrochemical cell, as it is, otherwise, especially by saying 'the machine works' you confound the issue at heart. its a well known piece of machinery that reads nothing about you. not sure what newtonian mechanics (laws of motion of rigid bodies and gravitation... ) has to do with it tbh, pure electrochemistry there if you wanna get into the specifics.

it should be clear in the context what i meant by 'works' but nevermind. thanks for clarification in case anyone else thought i meant 'physically does nothing' rather than 'proved to be incapable of offering insight into people.' by highlighting that its such a simple piece of not even high school chemistry that is very very well understood, you've substantiated my point.

dannymac i think you're totally right- the example of scientology does def support the hypothesis that religions are man made (have also found the fact that at least in some religions, man made god in his image, to be a big clue)
 
chinup said:
then call it an electrochemical cell, as it is, otherwise, especially by saying 'the machine works' you confound the issue at heart. its a well known piece of machinery that reads nothing about you. not sure what newtonian mechanics (laws of motion of rigid bodies and gravitation... ) has to do with it tbh, pure electrochemistry there if you wanna get into the specifics.

it should be clear in the context what i meant by 'works' but nevermind. thanks for clarification in case anyone else thought i meant 'physically does nothing' rather than 'proved to be incapable of offering insight into people.' by highlighting that its such a simple piece of not even high school chemistry that is very very well understood, you've substantiated my point.

dannymac i think you're totally right- the example of scientology does def support the hypothesis that religions are man made (have also found the fact that at least in some religions, man made god in his image, to be a big clue)
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That is a good point, the context was not clear though and I wasn't trying to contest your point that it does not "work."
Also, I meant classical mechanics which i just found out does not cover electricity. So what I really meant was Classical electromagnetism but whateves.

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^anyone want an e-meter?
 
TheMiddleWay said:
Few things are more controversial then scientology. The name implies the study of science, which runs.... a bit contrary to what they believe. I know the xenu story, but I've read places scientology is not about that literally. Are they saying that because once word got out, they knew they were screwed? Does anyone here believe that L. Ron Hubbard was more than a conman and mediocre writer?

Just curious for others perspective. I'd prefer if this doesn't turn into an anti-psychiatry/psychology discussion.

If what I wrote is a bit negative on them, defend away.
Click to expand...

The Godless cult of Sin and Greed is all that we Ex-Scientologists claim it is.
1. It kills, beats up, harms, harasses, stalks, and in always possible victimizes any ex-member and anyone else that opposes their evil agenda.
2. It forces its slave members to get abortions. It kills innocent babies so the mother can be more productive as a slave.
3. It uses its slaves to repair the new bought buildings for pennies an hour.
4. Its non-volunteer workers get the lowest wages (.10 to .40 cents an hour) in the civilized world and work the longest (70-80) hours.
5. It exposes all your own sins and secrets in your confessional/s to bring you harm, when you expose their evil Godless agenda.
6. It has its own prison camp (RPF) with Ronbot guards with automatic assault weapons, where you are sent if you fail to be very productive or angry or upset with your slavery. Slaves are not allowed to escape and will be shot if they try. 95% of the slaves that finally are allowed to leave soon leave the cult. The other 5% are sent to “fair game” the rest.
7. It has broken up hundreds of thousands of families by their Godless policies of Disconnection and Fair Game.

Please help us Independent Scientologists to bring back ethics, humanity, compassion, honesty and integrity back into the group. Help us stop them!!!
THE RONBOT HUNTER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
 
TheMiddleWay said:
As for anti-psychiatry, with no coercion, what is the problem with voluntary treatment? Do you feel the same about psychology?

It is kind of disturbing how close the pharmaceutical industry it's to psychiatry.

My father was a clinical psychologist, and didn't really like the psychiatrists views, as they tried to wipe out the psychology department at the major medical school he went to. My father believed in the humanistic approach to psychology (see Carl Rogers ).
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I'm not against voluntary necessarily, but doctors are pushing drugs on people with fairly minor problems and those who are having a normal reaction to their life's situations. Are patients getting the facts about the drugs? Are studies accurate - which ones at that? The side effects can be serious for plenty of people. There are severe withdrawal syndromes associated with many psych drugs.
I definately prefer psychology, and it is a shame it is getting eclipsed. Psychologists are providing low-risk therapies and working much harder than those who prescribe the "flavor of the month" pill. Few are quite good and very effective. There are good and bad aproaches. Good approaches help the patient to control feelings and prevent them from dwelling on problems too much while encouraging them to preserve their ability to feel. They also encourage the patient not to be in a constant state of self-examination but not entirely out of touch with oneself either.
I would also say that more traditional approaches and religious help can be effective for many too.

@hiphop, just what do they do to women and children?
 
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