SARMs for opioidergic-mediated hypogonadism?

[Limpet_Chicken]

Granted selective androgen receptor modulators are primarily intended for bone and muscle mass type anabolic activity, there is SOME gonadotrophic activity in some of them. Whilst on opioids there is of course a hypogonadotrophic action due to them, so should the SARMs retaining some of this side of endocrine activity be active in remedying this?

 

[Ligaturd]

If they increase levels of testosterone/dihydrotestosterone then yes but you run inti the same problems you would run into if you were using anabolic steroids. You have to cycle it properly and watch for excess estrogen when you come off. I looked into these when I was in active usage but decided against fucking with my endocrin system even more. Damage from opioids reverts itself after you stop using and let tour body return to a state of homeostasis. In my opinion it wasn't worth the risk of encountering more imbalances in various body hormones/neurotransmitters.

If you have a script for opioids you should just ask to speak to an endocrinologist and get androgel or something instead of messing around with these? They are relatively new from what I have read.

 

[CFC]

SARMs won't normalise your gonadotrophic output or attenuate the deleterious effects of opioids on the HPTA, they'll simply supplement normal androgenic activity (aka replacement therapy). They're actually quite suppressive - some have been considered as male contraceptives. You may have better luck with SERMs.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Pretty sure they do not increase test or DHT. They are designed to directly activate androgen receptors, some of them are steroidal, but most are nonsteroidal agents. And the vast majority, if not all of the currently known ones are active orally. Some conventional anabolic steroids are active orally but tend to be hepatotoxic.

This is not the case for SARMs, they are direct agonists of androgen receptors, orally active and without hepatotoxicity. They show functional selectivity, primarily targeting muscle mass, so do not have many of the side effects associated with steroidal anabolic agents of the androgenic type.

They show a significant bias towards gain of muscle mass rather than affecting the nadgers. Its actually the opioid-mediated effects on lessening muscular mass and functioning, and also the cognitive effects of lowering test levels that I am interested in. I really, really care almost nothing whatsoever on effects on fertility or on sex drive. In fact if the cognitive and effects on strength can be remedied and I can avoid provocation of a sex drive then so much the better. I have not even SEEN the one I truly do love, my former fiancee since we were both a lot younger than we are/she will be now, although I am much older than she, still, loved her, and lost her. There has been only one girl I've seen not long distance since and nobody has ever proved her equal, bar this one lady, 50-51, long dark hair all the way down to her cute little behind, hazel eyes, this GORGEOUS accent (montana), extremely intelligent, classic autism (Kanner's). I kinda 'reverse-cougar'ed'' her and we were in a relationship, but was too far a distance between us for it to work longterm. I still do care about her, but of those I could get with now, of my two former fiancees, the much younger one of the two, she is the only one I've ever truly, deeply and who was on my own level.

Very cute special ed girl, EXTREMELY attractive, sexy, kind-hearted, sweet and utterly wonderful girl; who I would do absolutely anything, bar only give up my lab, in order to be back and worn by her again. Would love her hand once more upon a dog lead attached to my collar, because there is simply nobody who will ever even come close.

Haven't had a relationship since, aside from one that didn't work out; and I was 19 at the time, its been more than 11 years since. If not my former fiancee I doubt I'll ever have another relationship.

So the sex drive and fertility issues are moot. Permanent damage I would sooner avoid all the same. But combating the muscle wastage, and fighting off deconditioning are main aims, but as well I want to do something about the neuro-cognitive and memory issues that result from low test levels.

Excess oestrogen is due to aromatiization of the steroids, is it not, in people who use conventional anabolic steroids? these agents are not test secretagogues, nor are they androgenic steroids themselves, but rather are nonsteroidal (most of them), orally active, and non-hepatotoxic selective agonists of androgen receptors, primarily of muscle type receptors, as well as bone density. Some but not all of them do possess some gonad-type steroid-mimetic action but with a fairly high to extreme bias towards other androgenic functions. A SMALL amount of such effects is to me, desirable, just not very much., Muscle tissue, bone density and importantly cognitive effects are what is desired.

 

[Tryptamite]

I will use conventional anabolic steroids again in the future, probably while still on ORT.

I have had success with them in the past. I do not love the gym bit seeing results from a little work spurred me on to go a few times a week. I'm not talking huge doses. Maybe 250mg test a week with a small amount of dianabol for the first 4 weeks of the cycle. Also with proper PCT afterwards and anti-aromatising measures during.

I could never put on weight but after my first cycle I had a nicely sculpted body. Now I need to lose some excess fat and improve my cardiovascular health before I do another cycle.

Limpet_Chicken; I know it is easy to forget about sex when heavily or moderately opiated but it is really an enjoyable part of life.
I would see myself as a bit of a romantic as well, but sometimes you just need a fuck to affirm your manhood!! That's sounds terrible I know, i am not a chauvinist pig, but man's three greatest needs and to kill, eat and fuck (procreate).

My sex drive comes.back if I do steroids or cut down on opiates and benzo and I do enjoy fucking a girl. Otherwise I need some really kinky shit to get me going.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

I am quite simply, not at all interested in conventional anabolic steroids.

Corticosteroids...well yes, those are necessary if I wish to forego being flayed alive. Ever tried, for example, having to walk using feet that have been literally flensed down to the bare, pink and plama-leaking muscle? It doesn't come highly recommended. And the feet are the worst place for it to happen too, short of eyes, dick, chocolate starfish etc (never happened, never want it to either)

I did once get my hand 'degloved', which is pretty much what it sounds like, when I was just out of my teens. I was wearing gloves too at the time, but they weren't what the term implies.
Spilled quite a bit of thionyl chloride over my hand, and it ate right through the steel spiked leather gloves I was wearing at the time, then continued on to eat ME. I quickly removed the glove of the affected hand, and it took my palm with it. Or what was left of it. That wasn't so bad as having it happen to my feet, which it will do if I don't use the corticosteroid (clobetasol propionate), because I could at least walk around and do things using the unburnt hand after the SOCl2 spill. Hurt of course, but nothing like having all the flesh fall off the soles and sides of my feet. Docs just put me recently on the clobetasol to replace the one I was using, mometasone. I just looked it up (clobetasol propionate that is) and for this kind of thing its the most potent corticosteroid listed in the BNF. I don't like to use it often at all due to its strength, so I only use it at the beginning of a flare of this fucking autoimmune shite, when I get warning that things are going to kick off; such as my ankles swelling up like overfilled balloons.


As for the body weight, there is absolutely no fat to loose. I'd like to be able to build up again though. I CAN'T drop the opiates (oxy for breakthrough, morphine for my regular, workhorse pain med), if I did, I would barely be able to leave the house. When I have to get on the bike to go to the docs after running out so as to pick up my refills (no limit, other than quantity over given time, there isn't a set number of refills, its just done automatically on repeat) its absolute agony if I'm having a bad day, and its been bad enough before I've had to have the pharmacist give me my oxy and chlormethiazole while I sit waiting for the rest of everything to be filled, and then insufflate 50-70mg of oxy right then and there, although I sometimes leave the pharmacy itself and go round the corner to do that if I have to.

I'm alright getting back home, but getting to the pharmacy itself is NOT pleasant. Without the pain meds, I can't lie down a lot of the time, either on my front, on my back or either side, because its just fucking murder.

 

[Tryptamite]

I know some of your situation man. I know you need the pain mens and you're smart enough to f ignore out what's best for you.

Give Me a shout on Skype I'd like a proper chat man.

 

[CFC]

Ok, so you're not trying to reverse the opioid effect on the HPTA, you just want to supplement with an exogenous androgen with limited androgenic effect?

So a SARM will fit that bill, although they're not actually very selective nor ultimately greatly different from several oral steroids (eg oxandrolone).

As using a SARM will almost completely suppress your HPTA, your testes will shrink and natural test production will reduce to almost nothing, as well as your DHT levels, which may make your mood worse, particularly as DHT and a couple other metabolites of testosterone are neurosteroids.

Also since LH/FSH will tank with a SARM, the activity of enzymes responsible for many other naturally occurring steroids will be suppressed. Supplementing with pregnenolone and DHEA may help alleviate some of this.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Well as long as it would reverse the neuro effects (muscle gain being a side benefit) of the opioid use.

How about intermittent, pulsed use of the SARM, similarly to how for example, I use the glucocorticoid (clobetasol propionate), when shit flares, although in this case, wouldn't pulsed androgen input help somewhat given the fairly long actions of the androgenic steroid release?

Also pregnenolone is REALLY something that does not fucking appeal whatsoever. its a GABAa antagonist or inverse agonist, presumably at the neurosteroid binding site. Have often wanted to try pregnAnolone, as its an agonist, but not pregnenolone. It sounds as though its probably anxiogenic and proconvulsant, and I already am taking chlormethiazole for the purpose of seizure prophylaxis (and ending them when they happen, as soon as I become capable of physically grabbing and opening the bottle or measuring from a vial of non-pharmaceutical chlormethiazole base without simply dropping it or throwing it everywhere.

Its just that I am really fed up with the HPTA effects of opioids, but the opioids, I may not cease. One of the injuries they are taken for cannot spontaneously heal, and nor will nerve damage. Not that opioids are great for neuropathic pain, but a solid belt of dipropionylmorphine will certainly put me out hard enough for the neuropathy to be of no consequence.

Speaking of opioids, do different ones have much of a different degree of HPTA inhibition?

 

[CFC]

The trouble with a pulsed SARM is that you're still going to degrade the HPTA, just more slowly. SARMS shut the axis down hard. And considering you're already inhibiting gonadotrophin release via opioids, the overall effect will probably be enhanced.

Is there some reason that you don't want to try a SERM? It should restore at least some of the LH/FSH and a semblance of normality to HPTA function.

 

[RedRum OG]

SARMs will do the opposite of what you want. They will further suppress testosterone and throw off HPTA.

Look into TRT. Really your only option if you will be on opiates long term. Otherwise, SERMS (maybe thats what yoy meant) and Trestolone (MENT)is a new AAS that seems very promising to replace TRT. Though testosterone is an established and proven method.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Ive been meaning to get test levels analysed so as to do that. Ideally I don't want anything thats going to have prosexual effects.

Not too familiar with SERMs.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Sorry for bumping this old thread, but it was the only similar topic I found.

I seem to be very sensitive to the anti-test effects of opioids. Have been on maintenance now for a good 3 years and in this comparatively short time I and my body messed up. Put on like 15kg and pure fat instead of muscle (I am lazy. Fucking lazy, and of course after the initial stimulation faded, the opioids put me down even more, tricking me into believing they were good for me) and became severely depressed ... too late I figured out that it'd be downstream effects causing this, then I was already addicted and no more dissociatives to counter that at the moment.

Switched to kratom now, have no scale but it's about 3-4 spoons every day, so maybe 15g. Switch was completely flawless, I feel more energetic now and need less sleep but I didn't get the boners like when skipping morphine, so I guess unfortunately kratom at least at this amount & strength continues to suppress T.

I'm really thinking about adding some other chem. Hell, I've done a handful of RCs before they were public and am still there (bad mindset, I get it, and want to change.. at least I'm taking bisoprolol now to get my tachycardia down - also something that came or exacerbated with the opioids. Dissos were taxing on the body but very different and shorter lived.)

There was this SARM which simulated exercise, no? "Exercise in a bottle" for rats, in development for people who can't exercise due to heart problems. Will have its downsides and probably when I read about them I'll stay clean of it but it sounds, of course, very promising. I want to exercise, fuck I'd love to have a good body and live a long healthy life but the lethargy, that's the catch, no? For me, lethargy is like pain. Something which I suffer from and wanna go away but instead I am feeding it with itself.. so for me it isn't a lifetime solution but akin to amph maybe, to get my fucking ass up ... it is SO SO MUCH easier to exercise when you're already in good shape. Only learned this when I put fat.

But so even SARMs will further cause downregulation?
What about triptoreline which was seen to restart test after steroids?