sarms during pct?

In all honesty I think this “don't run orals alone” bullshit is unwarranted. My friend with about 6 months training experiance and a shitty diet ran a cycle of dbol for 6 weeks @ 50mg, he kept a stone of weight and that cycle ended at christmas he still hasn't lost the weight he gained and he's recomped a bit. His training and diet are average.
Oral only cycle logs online also are promising, especially for the dry orals though dbol also is surprisingly good for oral only cycles.

I'm not going to be running any oral only cycles myself, because I see the need to make sure I have testosterone in my system at all times and I think if your gonna do it, you might as well do it properly.

Though I don't understand all the oral-bashing.
Orals for people who know what their doing seems rewarding and very worth it.
 
nolys said:
In all honesty I think this “don't run orals alone” bullshit is unwarranted. My friend with about 6 months training experiance and a shitty diet ran a cycle of dbol for 6 weeks @ 50mg, he kept a stone of weight and that cycle ended at christmas he still hasn't lost the weight he gained and he's recomped a bit. His training and diet are average.
Oral only cycle logs online also are promising, especially for the dry orals though dbol also is surprisingly good for oral only cycles.

I'm not going to be running any oral only cycles myself, because I see the need to make sure I have testosterone in my system at all times and I think if your gonna do it, you might as well do it properly.

Though I don't understand all the oral-bashing.
Orals for people who know what their doing seems rewarding and very worth it.
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Your friend is a fucking idiot. And I call bullshit on him keeping all the weight because Dianabol causes considerable water retention. Not only his he foolish, but he is shit lipped as well. His "recomp" was merely losing all the water weight and bloat. Hardly a recomposition. If people could recomp with 50mg of Dianabol there would be no need to spend cash on 150mg of Anavar ED for 8 weeks.

See the problem with oral only cycles is that they shutdown Testosterone production. That means no Testosterone. Your levels drop. Testosterone is a hormone necessary for proper biological function.

Orals are fucking great. I love them. But they shut you down and some fatigue you pretty badly. That's why you run them with Testosterone. It could even be 150mg of Test E a week, a mere TRT dose. Exogenous Testosterone is needed with orals.
 
Tussmann said:
I've been flamed for this before, but it's just my take and opinion on AAS. FOR ME, it is optimal. I run short cycles of strong oral anabolics. After 4-5 weeks on something like Epistane, my T-levels will still resemble that of a hypo-gonadal person and my E levels will be very high. But, in those 4-5 weeks, I can accomplish A LOT, and usually retain about 80% of my gains if my PCT is in line.
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And you will continue being flamed for your foolishness.

Your E levels will be very high? Then it isn't optimal. Furthermore the only reason you T levels are okay is because Epistane increases free Testosterone and has anti-estrogen effects similar to Proviron. You would probably retain more of your gains and make even more if you used some Testosterone. Add in another injectable and you will learn what gains really are.
 
-Guido- said:
Your friend is a fucking idiot. And I call bullshit on him keeping all the weight because Dianabol causes considerable water retention. Not only his he foolish, but he is shit lipped as well. His "recomp" was merely losing all the water weight and bloat. Hardly a recomposition. If people could recomp with 50mg of Dianabol there would be no need to spend cash on 150mg of Anavar ED for 8 weeks.

See the problem with oral only cycles is that they shutdown Testosterone production. That means no Testosterone. Your levels drop. Testosterone is a hormone necessary for proper biological function.

Orals are fucking great. I love them. But they shut you down and some fatigue you pretty badly. That's why you run them with Testosterone. It could even be 150mg of Test E a week, a mere TRT dose. Exogenous Testosterone is needed with orals.
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To be fair a lot of the oral only sucks stuff comes from the fact that most people who do oral only are ones who don't know how to train&eat in the first place. Dbol + high rep only + lots of carbs = your muscles fill with glycogen, make you big while you're on, but lose a lot when you come off, since you can't maintain those glycogen levels without extra hormones. With good training and nutrition oral only isn't that bad (mind you not as good as oral + injectable, just not as shitty as a lot of people claim).
 
Tussmann said:
"Ostarine Clinical Data"


There are a lot of rumors and broscience claims about this stuff...it's not suppressive, it raises estrogen, etc. that maybe can be put to rest if we look at the actual clinical data from a human trial.

Ostarine Phase II study, fulltext.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3177038/

Some interesting tidbits...aside from the expected increase in FFM at 3mg/day, ostarine had some other effects very similar to oral AAS...reduced TC, TAG and HDL, increased LDL (non-significant). Ostarine 3mg caused some transient increases in ALT numbers although this apparently resolved itself over the course of the study for most of the subjects who experienced it and only occurred in some subjects.

At 3mg it was mildly suppressive of total and free testosterone in men although the change in LH was not significant. It also pushed estrogen levels down significantly...by about 30% in the 3mg group...SHBG was also depressed in a dose-dependent manner.

Ostarine is not magic, you can't take it in meaningful amounts without suppression and it shares many of the same side effects similar as traditional AAS.

I think the take home message here is that this stuff should be treated like any other fairly mild oral anabolic compound...AAS were the original SARMs after all and some of the new designer compounds like epistane are actually more selective than ostarine."
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wasn't aware of that lol. i never felt too much suppression, even 3 weeks in. what i meant was to use it IN pct not AS pct. so if i do cycle again, you're saying something like clomid + osta wouldn't work?

i've only tried it once and thought osta was pretty good for muscle tone, not so much for strength though...
 
-Guido- said:
Epistane increases free Testosterone and has anti-estrogen effects similar to Proviron.
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People's blood-work doesn't really support these supposed anti-estrogen effects of Epistane...

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/41200-5wks-epistane-blood-results

-Guido- said:
You would probably retain more of your gains and make even more if you used some Testosterone. Add in another injectable and you will learn what gains really are.
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Yes as well as a new understanding of hypogonadism at the ripe age of 23. Not really what I'm going for. I want short anabolic bursts 2-3 times a year. I'll probably go for straight test in my 30s.
 
^^^your still shutting your nuts down man. still gonna deal with hypogonadism, why not make it worthwhile.
 
Tussmann said:
People's blood-work doesn't really support these supposed anti-estrogen effects of Epistane...

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/41200-5wks-epistane-blood-results



Yes as well as a new understanding of hypogonadism at the ripe age of 23. Not really what I'm going for. I want short anabolic bursts 2-3 times a year. I'll probably go for straight test in my 30s.
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EPI is in no way an AI, i know from experience, it flared my pre-existing gyno from a pea to dime sized lump.... very strange compound too, somewhat stimulating for me, felt very energetic and had bursts of energy coupled with extreme facial flushing
 
Serotonin101 said:
^^^your still shutting your nuts down man. still gonna deal with hypogonadism, why not make it worthwhile.
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You're right. But, I just don't want to inject stuff everyday or every week for that matter, especially if its grey-market. People have plenty of success with just orals...because well, they're actual AAS.
 
also there's something called set-point theory. injectables with longer half lifes/longer cycles keep the body at the new weight for longer so the body adjusts to the new body size, thus allowing you to have a new "set point" allowing you to keep more gains. works similar to a diet, longer but slower dieting keeps weight off better than quick rapid changes.
 
Lopez said:
EPI is in no way an AI, i know from experience, it flared my pre-existing gyno from a pea to dime sized lump.... very strange compound too, somewhat stimulating for me, felt very energetic and had bursts of energy coupled with extreme facial flushing
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Epistane indeed isn't an aromitase inhibitor but it is an anti-estrogen. Your gyno flare up might of been a result of possible progesterone effects from Epistane or the aromization of extra Testosterone. I can't really say. Epistane in an energetic substance but the facial flushing I can't put my finger on.
 
-Guido- said:
Epistane is a methylated derivative of the Japanese anabolic/anti-estrogenic steroid mepitiostane. It increases free testosterone levels. Fuck Mindandmuscle.
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I can't find any literature on the anti-estrogenic properties of mepitiostane. If you cite some studies, I might be inclined to actually believe you.
 
yeah pretty much. I've read a lot of conflicting data with it so I'm undecided on Wtf to classify it as. I've read some that said they didn't get gyno with it or masteron but when combined gyno flared up. those were all personal accounts as I couldn't find any academic journals really or something "scientific" if you will.
 
Serotonin101 said:
yeah pretty much. I've read a lot of conflicting data with it so I'm undecided on Wtf to classify it as. I've read some that said they didn't get gyno with it or masteron but when combined gyno flared up. those were all personal accounts as I couldn't find any academic journals really or something "scientific" if you will.
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Fair enough. I just feel like there is a lot of unknown qualities to epistane.
 
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