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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Safest Psychedelic?

howlongisthenight said:
Burning out serotonin receptors is not worth a few nights of fun, in my opinion, and individual reports of neurotoxicity in regards to LSD have limited my interest in the substance.
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hmm... I was unaware that LSD was neurotoxic. I thought it was (physically) one of the safest / least harmful recreational drugs you could use.
 
I, too, am wondering where you got the LSD toxicity thing.

But hey, if you ask me, the safest "psychedelic" both mentally and physically is Ketamine, although it is technically a dissociative - so although its insights are similar to those of psychedelics, the trips themselves are polar opposites. Oh and btw, Olney's Leisons are history - so don't bother worrying about that one in particular. The only danger with Ketamine is its dependence potential. By safe on the mind I mean it is the least likely one to cause any kind of traumatic experience.

ps. If you feel that salvia has taught you all there is to teach, I must say I doubt other psychedelics will teach you anything new, since Salvia is one of the most powerful ones out there.

pss. ^ mescaline is supposedly easy on the mind, yes, but from what I read, it is not too body-friendly as all reports I have read include some sort of vomitting action.
 
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Mescaline is easy on the mind, but the taste of the cactus tea is traumatic in and of itsself. Not recomended for a first trip also due to the long course of action it has. That is a plus for psilocybin, it lasts half as long. Think about how bad it would be to freak out at the begining of a mescaline trip, and be stuck in it for 12+ hours.
 
7zark7 said:
hmm... I was unaware that LSD was neurotoxic. I thought it was (physically) one of the safest / least harmful recreational drugs you could use.
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i wouldnt count on it, for a long time people didn't think thc was neurotoxic either. one thing many people on these boards dont understand is that because a drug hasn't yet been shown to be neurotoxic, does not mean it isn't neurotoxic. however i doubt there would be any significant neurotoxicity from a single usage.
 
burn out said:
i wouldnt count on it, for a long time people didn't think thc was neurotoxic either. one thing many people on these boards dont understand is that because a drug hasn't yet been shown to be neurotoxic, does not mean it isn't neurotoxic. however i doubt there would be any significant neurotoxicity from a single usage.
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While cannabis may be very slightly neurotoxic in some areas, it's extremeley minute and modern science has even shown that it can be the opposite, neuroprotective, in many cases.

I think it's only proven to be neurotoxic to hippocampal neurons, which are the neurons involved in memory retention. (in the most basic sense. and correct me if im wrong).

Still, it's good to know. Even though cannabis users shouldn't worry too much about their drug being neurotoxic, as long as they are preaching moderation "every so often".
 
Ecstasy as a psychedelic primer

I would say that even though MDMA has gained an awful rep as a neurotoxic brainholerater (yeah, I made that word up all by myself!), it can still be a wonderful introduction to the wide world of psychedelics AND a lot of research shows it is not neurotoxic in any way at normal recreational doses, kept to a maximum usage of once per 3 weeks / month. The case for MDMA's non-neurotoxicity is made here by the well-informed Nathan Luno: http://thedea.org/neurotoxicity.html. New research, he adds, (the so-called massive NeXT Study being done by the government of the Netherlands) confirms this: " Every test to look for the sort of brain injury that has been seen in lab animals failed to find any sign of damage in the people who had used 'ecstasy.' "

But why is Ecstasy such a good introduction? First of all, a bad trip is almost impossible -- I think most people would consider a psychotic experience quite "unsafe." Second of all, it isn't called Ecstasy for nothing -- it's fun if nothing more. Third, most people dabbling in psychedelics are looking for that "something more," and users habitually experience a deep, profound connection with the world and its inhabitants without the possibly alienating effects of a stronger psychedelic like LSD.

I concede, however, for a true full-on introduction you should probably try shrooms, because they're very safe, have few side effects (except nausea sometimes), and don't last for as long as LSD. With shrooms, you'll get the nice visuals and the pretty patterns that you might be looking for. The "big 3" to try, IMO, would be shrooms, LSD, and MDMA. They're all fairly safe and honestly, if you're going to enjoy psychedelics, you should probably be ready to take some risks.... your mind is a big place to explore, and there might be some pitfalls.

PS-As a dissociative, couldn't ketamine be rather scary for a first-time user? I've seen people in k-holes and they're not always loving it. But if you have experience with Salvia, another dissociative, then maybe you'd be good.
 
Then as a psychedelic, wouldnt cannabis experimentation, followed by MDMA, followed by salvia be a good learning curve as far as 'psychedelics' are concerned?
 
Salvia may have a short duration, but is not a good introduction to a true psychedelic headspace (mdma is a true psychedelic, but far more gentle). It's effects are often described as disturbing, and can be fully visionary, similar to n,n Dmt. Salvia is not a toy. If you are just begining your psychedelic explorations, you are not prepared for ego death( not that you ever truley can be).
 
Salvia because in most states it won’t get you thrown in prison, huge court fines and probation from it. And you can’t physically die on it.
 
^it's pretty hard to die from one use of any of the psychedelics listed, let alone salvia. The legality issue is hard to stand on simply because as many people on this board have seen, the odds of being caught are much smaller than the odds of being totally fine
 
Physically - mushrooms or mescaline, maybe even LSD.

Mentally - mushrooms hands down.

Mescaline is pretty long-lasting. Don't forget that your mental well-being is a big part of things, not just physical well-being.

Someone said shrooms are a "complete" psychedelic, and that's definitely right on the mark. You get the intensity of the come-up, the visuals, the altered reality, and the comedown is the most amazing body high!
 
paradoxia said:
I would say that even though MDMA has gained an awful rep as a neurotoxic brainholerater (yeah, I made that word up all by myself!), it can still be a wonderful introduction to the wide world of psychedelics AND a lot of research shows it is not neurotoxic in any way at normal recreational doses, kept to a maximum usage of once per 3 weeks / month. The case for MDMA's non-neurotoxicity is made here by the well-informed Nathan Luno: http://thedea.org/neurotoxicity.html. New research, he adds, (the so-called massive NeXT Study being done by the government of the Netherlands) confirms this: " Every test to look for the sort of brain injury that has been seen in lab animals failed to find any sign of damage in the people who had used 'ecstasy.' "

But why is Ecstasy such a good introduction? First of all, a bad trip is almost impossible -- I think most people would consider a psychotic experience quite "unsafe." Second of all, it isn't called Ecstasy for nothing -- it's fun if nothing more. Third, most people dabbling in psychedelics are looking for that "something more," and users habitually experience a deep, profound connection with the world and its inhabitants without the possibly alienating effects of a stronger psychedelic like LSD.

I concede, however, for a true full-on introduction you should probably try shrooms, because they're very safe, have few side effects (except nausea sometimes), and don't last for as long as LSD. With shrooms, you'll get the nice visuals and the pretty patterns that you might be looking for. The "big 3" to try, IMO, would be shrooms, LSD, and MDMA. They're all fairly safe and honestly, if you're going to enjoy psychedelics, you should probably be ready to take some risks.... your mind is a big place to explore, and there might be some pitfalls.

PS-As a dissociative, couldn't ketamine be rather scary for a first-time user? I've seen people in k-holes and they're not always loving it. But if you have experience with Salvia, another dissociative, then maybe you'd be good.
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I kindly disagree with this.

First of all, many people (myself included) find MDMA more as an insightful stimulant rather than a psychedelic. There is very little I find in common between the MDMA headspace and that created by any of the psychedelics I've tried, and I've had a fair share of variety.

Another thing is the "impossibility" of a bad trip. Well, I had a total of about 7 or 8 experiences with E. Only two matched what most people talk about when they discuss E. 2 were weak. And the rest? All were bad experiences - ie, panic and emotional turmoil. That mostly happened with pills that I later found out were MDA, which I consider is significantly more psychedelic than MDMA. (needless to say, I probably take pills only once a year at the most, and usually only if I had opiates for the comedown).

Mind you, I recommended Ketamine which, although I consider closer to psychs than MDMA, is still pretty far. And to address the question above - no, this would not be a good introduction to the psychedelic mind-state, but the OP asked about safety. People mind find the dissociative experience scary after the fact, so it wouldn't leave any kind of trauma - it will simply make the user decide not take it again, and any disturbance would go away within a few hours.

I also think shrooms are a bad candidate in terms of bad-trips since a SIGNIFICANT number of people find them Anxiogenic.

If you want my opinion on the "safest" psychedelic in terms of bad-trip risk, I'd say 2C-I... no matter how intense it gets, I find that it has a solid entactogenic "safety-net". Mind you, no one knows anything about 2C-I's physical safety or long-term effects.
 
^^ Weird, I get way too stimulated with 2c-i in doses above 25mg. I have had far more experiences border on unpleasant with 2c-i from overstimulation than with higher doses of 2c-e, but I dont recomend that as a 1st psychedelic.
2c-c or 2c-t-21 would be good choices, but obtaining them can be a bitch nowadays:(
 
please dont take 2ci lightly - ive done lots of psychs and one of my most frightening trips was on 30mg 2ci. I woke up the next morning amazed to be alive, searched for a car for an hour and was so thankful to find it not crashed or towed. Im still in awe that im ok... havent touched anything hard sense then.
 
^^ It does not seem to be the "feel good" phen it is known for being, at least not in me and about 25% of people who have tried it.
 
You people are taking WAY too much 2C-I. I found 15mg more than mindblowing. I have no intension on going higher, if I ever take 2C-I again (it does tend to lose its magic after a few uses, I found).
 
I found I am very tolerant to the mental and visual effects of the 2c-i, but highly succeptable to the stimulation. I have since stopped all work with 2c-i due to this fact. 15mg woulg give me a weak +2 if I was lucky.
 
Psilo707 said:
While cannabis may be very slightly neurotoxic in some areas, it's extremeley minute and modern science has even shown that it can be the opposite, neuroprotective, in many cases.

I think it's only proven to be neurotoxic to hippocampal neurons, which are the neurons involved in memory retention. (in the most basic sense. and correct me if im wrong).

Still, it's good to know. Even though cannabis users shouldn't worry too much about their drug being neurotoxic, as long as they are preaching moderation "every so often".
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the problem is many cannabis users are using cannabis every day or at least several times a week and are not aware that it is neurotoxic. the moderation thing applies to almost any drug, you can get away with using some prety toxic drugs if you only use them once in a great while. i just think we need to stop all this "marijuana does not cause brain damage" nonsense, when scientists are really only beginning to understand how this drug affects the brain and the most recent findings indicate that it does indeed cause brain damage. of course smoking once in a while wont turn you into a retard, not even heavy smoking will but you may find yourself with noticeable deficits in learning, memory and attention if you are a heavy user and they don't necessarily dissapear with abistence, at least not completely.
 
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