• MDMA &
    Empathogenic
    Drugs

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Safer forms of Ecstacy

Taking any drug orally is by far much safer than snorting, smoking, or injecting. So in a way we are already using the safest method. Soon enough someone will create a smokable form of MDMA. Its like the difference between takin some desoxyn (meth in a pill) or smokin some shards.
 
What comes close to non-neurotoxic? It needs to be approved by the FDA, Ecstacy was used by psychiatrists before '85 until people used it for different purposes.
 
no don't mess with it it would lose its actual use. Take lower dosage long term effects are still not proven. :(
 
The problem is that to achieve the effect there's going to have to be some serotonin release, and there's very few classes of drugs which have primarily serotonin releasing properties... there's the phenethylamines such as MDMA... some of the piperazines, etc, but not much is known about them...

its hard when the method of neurotoxicity isn't even fully understood to design something that doesn't have it
 
Bad_Boy_Blue said:
Why can't they develop safer non-neurotoxic analogues of MDMA?
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Perhaps the mechanism by which MDMA works goes hand in hand with neurotoxicity, so its impossible for have the euphoria without the damage :\
Bad_Boy_Blue said:
Pharmaceutical companies could patent them and sell them legally.
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If its got recreational potential, it'd be scheduled, thats how the system works unfortunately.
 
AlphaNumeric said:
If its got recreational potential, it'd be scheduled, thats how the system works unfortunately.
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I've sent a letter to the NSW government on this matter recently.
 
Neurotoxic potential seems to be inherent to the amphetamine class of drugs; anything is toxic at high enough levels, and amphetamines are actively drawn into the neurons (concentrating them.)

In terms of making a modified MDMA pill with less neurotoxic potential, there's good reason to believe adding MAOI drugs could be effective, but mixing MAOIs and MDMA can kill you (and has killed a number of people.) So...no free lunch there. Creating other drugs or drug cocktails that could mimic MDMA's effects convincingly is probably possible; a very elegant combination of receptor agonists could in theory provide virtually identical effects. Such a beast would, however, be difficult and expensive to develop (ie. a pharmaceutical industry scale problem, hobbyists need not apply.)

Since FDA regulations specifically require a drug to have a therapeutic benefit (ie. it can diagnose, cure, or help a medical problem) there is no mechanism in place to approve a recreational drug; fundamental changes in the laws would be needed.

Fortunately, there's pretty convincing evidence that MDMA is not neurotoxic in humans when used with moderation (even pretty heavy users don't show clear-cut evidence of neurotoxic.) Seeking a less neurotoxic version doesn't seem necessary.
 
TheDEA.org said:
Neurotoxic potential seems to be inherent to the amphetamine class of drugs; anything is toxic at high enough levels, and amphetamines are actively drawn into the neurons (concentrating them.)
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I've never actually thought about it like this before :) Good perspective....

I think more research into the piperazines would be useful... m-CPP is a non-neurotoxic serotonin releaser. Though it does not show many of the effects of MDMA, the fact that as serotonin releaser exists in a class outside the amphetamines suggests analogues may be possible.
 
Well it depends on the facts doesn't it? Amphetamines can work in a couple of different ways, according to some people. And some people believe that that is the difference between neurotoxic, and non-neurotoxic amphetamines is to do with the idea that Amphetamines which have affinity for the plasmalemma transporter alone are non-neurotoxic. while that amps with affinity for the plasmalemma transporter and the VMAT are neurotoxic. This is supported by drugs like 4-methylthioamphetamine.

Other people believe that non-neurotoxic amphetamines have no affinity for MAO-B, while neurotoxic ones do. This is supported by piperazines.

Then you've got other people who think its to do with dopamine, or redox cycling... but those people are probably wrong. Mainly because, you can have basically non-neurotoxic dopamine releasers, and not all neurotoxic amphetamines can undergo redox cycling.
 
I've been doing a bit of reading on TFMPP... sounds quite interesting. Going to do more reading about the piperazines...
 
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