Sacha Baron Cohen is back and punking politicians again

[Xorkoth]

Ali G is an alter-ego/character of Sascha Cohen

 

[swilow]

Let's try this again guys. I've ua'ed the off topic stuff.

 

[alasdairm]

Trump U was licensed out. He wasn't the one who did it but he bears responsibility...

that's not accurate.

trump university was incorporated in 2004 by donald trump and 2 others. trump owned 93% of the company. trump was named as a defendant in the (amended) complaint filed by the first litigant, tarla makaeff. he most certainly "did it".

you may be thinking of 'the trump institute' which was a lecture series which licensed trump's name.

alasdair

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

that's not accurate.

trump university was incorporated in 2004 by donald trump and 2 others. trump owned 93% of the company. trump was named as a defendant in the (amended) complaint filed by the first litigant, tarla makaeff. he most certainly "did it".

you may be thinking of 'the trump institute' which was a lecture series which licensed trump's name.

alasdair

I take it that's the course material for one of his business 'degrees'? :D

Shame he never took it himself...

 

[alasdairm]

of course

alasdair

 

[JGrimez]

You have no evidence that he personally did it, but he was held legally responsible and faced the consequences.
Has he settled anything post-Trump U?
Let's say that is the worst thing on his record compared to the countless successes and actions proving his character, it does not invalidate him from being an effective president.
Also that is off-topic
The point now is that Trump did not get tricked by Ali G like some of the most brilliant minds of all time did.

This actually is kind of an important lesson. You can have someone who is a genius academically yet would have zero idea when someone speaking to them is straight trolling them. That requires a different type of social intelligence and awareness.

 

[spacejunk]

Another important lesson is that trump is a crook of the scummiest variety, and that's why he'll die in jail

 

[JGrimez]

Out of curiosity are there any living politicians or leaders that you admire or consider generally good?

 

[spacejunk]

Absolutely.

But none that i would support in the way you do with trump.
It's not healthy to support someone without question - which is to say it is undemocratic.

I've been politically conscious for a fairly long time, and over that time many politicians that i've liked have disappointed me - and when they do, i reassess my view of them.

The trump phenomena is just bizarre. I never used to understand how so many people could support hitler, or other fascists. But now i've seen it happen in the USA, i can see that some peolle put their hate and resentment above the interests of their fellow citizens.

That's why trump is popular - he preaches racism, sexism and transphobia as if it is normal, as if ignorance and prejudice is a virtue - rather than a shortcoming.

 

[JGrimez]

I've criticized Trump on a number of issues, and would not be surprised if he flips at any time. So there is definitely questions surrounding my cautious yet optimistic support.

Can you name some of the leaders that you think are doing a good job, or are good people, just for the sake of comparison?

 

[spacejunk]

Leaders? None, come to mind.
The new mexican president sounds great though.

And i'm a big fan of a local politician/activist/unionist here in melbourne named stephen jolly.
He does a lot of stuff for people who are struggling - for instance, a friend attended an event he spoke at tonight, about the dire state of public housing, and ways he wants to address that.

I had the pleasure of meeting tronica - bluelight's amazing director of research (just one of her many roles in drug research and harm reduction work) at a meeting she co-hosted with him, with the intent to set up both pill testing at festivals, and a supervised injecting room in a part of richmond with a street herion scene which has had lots of overdoses and caused lots of social problems with people copping their dope and shooting up in the street and people's front yards near the corner it's centred around.

Basically their approach was advocating the benefits of both of these harm reduction measures - but also discussion of setting up freelance - possibly illegal - safe injecting room (mobile unit in a caravan or something similar with doctors and nurses nurses who have volunteered to be involved) and similar efforts to test drugs at events with without explicit permission from the government.
I reckon that sort of thing is incredible, and have a lot of respect for stephen jolly - he's genuinely active in the community on heaps of really important shit that is worth fighting for.
I like leaders who fight for important shit that i care about. I think there's heaps of stuff that affects all of us that is worth engaging with. Stuff that has nothing to do with culture wars, but is some struggle in your community that you care about.
Environmentalism is what got me into politics.

I'm also a fan of scott ludlam.
He had to resign because of that weird fine-print in the constitution that meant he wasn't eligible to stand for the senate seat he held for 10 years or whatever - but he was great.

I kinda grew up in a similar part of the activist scene that i kicked around in when i was younger, so i kinda knew him as an acquaintance for years, but he's an amazing politician - when he's politicking. At the moment he's traveling the world, but i hope he'll be back to contest the next federal election in some capactity.

Scott's work in the senate was always incredible, but he really shone in digital privacy and security rights - something he knew a great deal more about than the vast majority of (mostly) old men that outnumbered him in that place. But those are the people legislating such important - and woefully neglected by the public and the media - relating to our rights online and through various communications networks.
The fact that trump is so blas? and boastful about his ignorance is bad enough, but his technological impotence was on full display in that steamy press conference they did together, with that silly line about "the servers", demanding to know where they are, blah blah.
It's embarassing, in 2018, to have a president who doesn't seem especially computer literate beyond twitter - which doesn't make him look great.
I guess he doesn't really seem to know anything else a president has typically mastered before finding themselves in the role.
It could be a good thing, but it trump's case it really isn't.

Sorry to take this so off-topic, but i figured i'd try to answer that to make a bit of conversation of a thread that was already way off the tracks

 

[JGrimez]

Yeah thanks for answering

but also discussion of setting up freelance - possibly illegal - safe injecting room

Probably shouldn't be telling me that but good luck with it all.

I'm also a fan of scott ludlam.

I've seen this fellow before seemed like a sensible bloke.

The fact that trump is so blas? and boastful about his ignorance is bad enough, but his technological impotence was on full display in that steamy press conference they did together, with that silly line about "the servers", demanding to know where they are, blah blah.
It's embarassing, in 2018, to have a president who doesn't seem especially computer literate beyond twitter - which doesn't make him look great.

This is where I disagree. I don't know the exact quote you're referring to but I believe Trump was talking about the DNC's servers that were claimed to have been hacked but never turned over to the authorities for analysis. The reason why they weren't turned over is many believe that it will prove that they weren't hacked and that the leak came from an internal source. There's no other reason why the DNC - an alleged victim of theft- would not cooperate with the FBI.

So it's pretty obvious by now that Trump is being helped, most likely by military generals or intelligence. He lasted this long, at the moment still looks untouchable, and was able to predict events being made public like Obama wiretapping him for eg. So someone is feeding him intel and his advisors are also no doubt telling him what he can and cannot say. Obviously Trump is afforded a lot of leeway with his improvisational method of speaking, but to me anyway it's quite obvious that he knows what he's doing.

Otherwise he wouldn't have had a chance at winning and would have been somehow removed by now.
I mean the system was pretty shitty in the first place if Russian hackers could influence the results, and then they coudn't remove a incompetently criminal buffoon from the office.

 

[alasdairm]

You have no evidence that he personally did it...

irrelevant. trump agrees with me here:

Has he settled anything post-Trump U?

sure. Hudek v Trump Miami Resort Managment

The point now is that Trump did not get tricked by Ali G like some of the most brilliant minds of all time did.

sure he did. why didn't he just walk out?

alasdair

 

[JGrimez]

irrelevant. trump agrees with me here:

I agree with you too I said that Trump is responsible.
However there's a difference between you owning a company and being responsible for the actions of one of your employees, versus actually committing an action yourself.
There's a huge difference there, imagine yourself as CEO.

Hudek v Trump Miami Resort Managment

Thanks, I had a quick look over all the settlements. While it's not true that he "never settles", some of those were a tad absurd.
Some were legitimate of course, but I think that's a pretty decent track record considering how many different companies Trump owned or operated and how many employees he has hired over the years. Before he ran for office he actually had a reputation as a very respectable and efficient boss. For example he had more women than men hired at executive-level positions and paid them more based on performance.

sure he did. why didn't he just walk out?

He did. You can see he knew it was bullshit from the start but he let it play out a minute.
Although I will say that was also one of Cohen's worst performances/ideas. He could've done better and may have underestimated Trump like many others have done since.

 

[alasdairm]

However there's a difference between you owning a company and being responsible for the actions of one of your employees, versus actually committing an action yourself.
There's a huge difference there, imagine yourself as CEO.

"Whatever happens, you're responsible."

for me it's part of a pattern that speaks to his character.

he abused obama for vacation spending and time off then broke records when he got into office for vacation spending and time off. he assailed obama for using executive orders and criticised him for not being able to get anything done without them then went nuts with eos himself when he got into office. he tells people they need to take responsibility and frequently blames anybody but himself when things don't work out.

it's the worst kind of cynical hypocrisy but his supporters don't seem to care. if he took some of his own advice, he'd be a better president.

While it's not true that he "never settles"...

indeed. if you sometimes settle, you should probably avoid stating that you never, ever, ever settle.

alasdair

 

[spacejunk]

Probably shouldn't be telling me that but good luck with it all.

Why? They made no secret of it - and this is bluelight. Surely you're not implying you'd do something to sabotage harm reduction efforts...

What i was discussing was direct action as a response to a political problem, or government inaction that is causing harm to a community.
Some people go to great lengths - and expose themselves to risk - to help others, or fight the good fight.

Some of the best political fights involve breaking the law.
This in contrast to trump, who breaks the law to line his own pockets, and those of his cronies.

All this trump nonsense is a depressing joke to me, because the whole thing has nothing to do with radical politics, and everything to do with trump being a con artist.

The argument that trump is "shaking things up" is absurd. "Shakedown" is a more apppropriate word - he's a thief, stealing from the american people. A kleptocrat.
He learned from the masters of that - the russian mafia.

After his embarassing performance in helskini, you'd think his supporters might be reassessing their positions - but clearly you are not.
That's pretty sad. I'd be ashamed of myself if i had supported that charlatan.
I think that the whole trump scene is pretty humiliating to watch. Even though i always thought he was fucking shady, i still find it really uncomfortable to watch him.

Makes me ashamed to be a human. He represents everything wrong with humanity. I look at him and think about our collective shame. Really, it's embarassing - eve

Watching people like you argue that he's a genius because he brushed off Ali G 15 years ago?
Jesus christ - if he were really the saviour you make him out to be, you wouldn't need to dig so ridiculously deep to praise him.

Desperate; only word for it.


Clearly though, i'm wasting my time. You dismiss anything that contradicts your opinions. Sad!

 

[JGrimez]

You claim repeatedly that he's stealing all of the US's money etc.
However a large number of people want Trump removed, so all they need to do is catch him embezzling some government funds and then they've got him.
He is being watched like a hawk in all areas (they even illegally wiretapped him).

Also ask yourself: if the US government was specifically wiretapping his people for close a to year or longer, and they still haven't pressed charges against him - that does not look good for your "remove Trump at all costs" agenda. Imagine if they illegally wiretapped him, putting themselves at risk, and found nothing? That would be incredibly embarrassing for the crooked investigators.

Also there is a huge difference between "breaking the law" to help save people's lives - such as junkies who live under draconian drug laws that you can observably see are in immediate danger,
versus you don't like president's policies so you feel justified in hitting his supporters with bike locks. Don't conflate the two. Which of Trump's policies demand breaking the law to prevent?

 

[swilow]

You claim repeatedly that he's stealing all of the US's money etc.
However a large number of people want Trump removed, so all they need to do is catch him embezzling some government funds and then they've got him.
He is being watched like a hawk in all areas (they even illegally wiretapped him).

Did they though? Was it illegal? How do you know?

LE have the right to put people they suspect have broken or are breaking the law under surveillance. I don't like it but that's how it is.

Also ask yourself: if the US government was specifically wiretapping his people for close a to year or longer, and they still haven't pressed charges against him - that does not look good for your "remove Trump at all costs" agenda. Imagine if they illegally wiretapped him, putting themselves at risk, and found nothing? That would be incredibly embarrassing for the crooked investigators.

Loaded language aside, the fact that they haven't pressed charges doesn't mean they won't.

Anyway, either we start discussing the actual topic or I'm gonna have to clean up and send the thread away.

 

[JGrimez]

Did they though? Was it illegal? How do you know?

Been over this quite a few times. They knew that the "evidence" that they used to secure a wiretap (the dossier) was not corroborated.
It's illegal to use knowingly false intel to secure a warrant, and then anything that comes from the warrant is inadmissible (not like they found anything anyway though)

LE have the right to put people they suspect have broken or are breaking the law under surveillance. I don't like it but that's how it is.

LE cannot break the law themselves though, and we hold them to a higher standard.

Loaded language aside, the fact that they haven't pressed charges doesn't mean they won't.

The fact that they haven't yet means they won't.

 

[swilow]

^You cannot know that.