rolling while LOW CARBING
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fairnymph
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Nope..not dangerous from what I know. I have rolled while on the Atkins diet myself. Just make sure that you are eating enough/getting enough calories when you roll. If you feel at all faint while rolling drink a soda/some juice or eat some candy to boost your blood sugar.
Infinite Jest
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Except that low-carb diets are a crock of shit (if you mean the low-carb/high-protein type).
I'll get you some references when I get into work (we've got a libary full of this stuff).
I'll get you some references when I get into work (we've got a libary full of this stuff).
hOtTiEcHiK
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The Atkins diet isn't great on your liver and ,obviously, Ecstacy isn't either. Supplementing with milk thistle for healthy liver function may help...but other than that....you should be fine!!!! 
[ 04 April 2002: Message edited by: hOtTiEcHiK ]
[ 04 April 2002: Message edited by: hOtTiEcHiK ]
I hate to quote info from the atkin's diet page on this, as Atkins was never the best public spokesperson for high protein/high fat diets. But his reference was the easiest to find.
From
http://atkinscenter.com/dev/helpatkins/faqs/faqmyths.html
Doesn't all the protein you eat when doing Atkins cause kidney and liver problems?
These are two of the most popular myths perpetuated about Atkins. There are no studies showing that Atkins causes kidney or liver problems in healthy individuals. In fact, at The Atkins Center, we constantly monitor our patients’ lab results for changes in kidney and liver function. There are research trials that looked at liver and kidney and heart function, with participants on ketogenic diets similar to the Atkins approach in which no negative effects were observed. Also, when we did a follow-up of more than a year on patients at The Atkins Center, including checking their kidney and liver functions, there was no adverse effect. Of course patients in kidney failure are extremely restricted in everything they consume, including water, so Atkins would not be appropriate for them
Point being that if you're not predisposed to kidney problems then high protein will be alright.
A lot of people refer to these diets as high protein when they're just as much high-fat as well. That is, if you are executing it properly.
There are many other variations of lowcarb for example protein power by eades, or Bodyopus by Dan Duchaine(R.I.P.).
Lyle McDonald and Elzi Volk are also authorities on these diets. The Ketogenic Diet written by Lyle sites numerous studies thoughtout the entire book that should backup just about any health related questions.
Elzi also knows a ton about thermogenic agents and is one of the primary pioneers in using yohimbine HCL to aid in the lipolytic process.
To be half way objective I'll throw out two other criticisms on these diets and respond also (hey, I said half-way objective
1) low carbohydrate diets can put the body into a potentially harmful state called ketosis where the blood acidity is too high and unhealthy.
A) Blood acidity is reduced through exercise. Your body will burn up the ketones in the bloodstream and lower the dangerous levels. It's my opinion that these diets are not for the sedentary, but rather athleticly inclined folks. Ketosis is also not to be confused with ketoacidosis. Diabetics can get their bodies into a vicious cycle by not eating enough for a few days and/or drinking alcohol where it burns off everything and is very possibly lethal. Not to mention they will wreak of acetone.
2) Too much fat. This arguement encapsulates all the high fat arguements ever presented. Carcinogenic, arterial blocking, etc etc.
A) My response to this is two-fold. First off when you are sub-caloric, high fat content becomes much less of an issue because your body will use it more directly for energy. Secondly, not all fat is bad. Avoid more hydrogenated and/or saturated fats. Omega 3s and 6s are your friends. They will benefit your skin and your synaptic functionality. Win-win. For information here, I would refer you to an awesome book called Fats the Heal, Fats the Kill by Udo Erasmus. He will explain fats chemically and in their mechanism of action as well as going over some good basic nutrition in the process. Also there is some well deserved critisism of the U.S. SAD (standard american diet) as well.
You can find endless arguements about these diets on usenet. I suggest accumulating all information possible from multiple sources on and offline and then determining where you stand on it rather then taking any of our answeres alone.
To this long post, I'd simply like to propose another thought of mine. Everybody wants a magic bullet. Most people are not willing to be scholars about their own minds and bodies.
For this reason the misinformation-filled fitness industry is overflowing with your money.
I feel that the reason obesity is on the rise is because the common diet information people are given will not necessarily work for them, but HEY.. at least it won't kill them. So let's all propose method X (i.e.: high carb, low fat) as the answer. It might make you fatter and dry your skin out. And make you cranckier and more hunger-craving then lowcarb, but you're alive after you do it.
Lowcarb is potentially dangerous and not for everybody. It shouldnt be advocated as the cure-all. But it isn't a crock by any means. Some people will find a better balance half way along.
For example isocaloric macronutrient ratios like 33/33/33 percent fat/carbs/protein. Or the Zone diet 40/30/30, and so forth.
A good book on customizing your balance for feeling well is The Metabolic Diet by Mauro De Pasquale. It's somewhat of a dry read. He also wrote a book in 95 on how to build muscle while in a low carbohydrate body state called The Anabolic Diet.
I think I'm done. Comments?
Originally posted by hOtTiEcHiK:
The Atkins diet isn't great on your liver and ,obviously, Ecstacy isn't either. Supplementing with milk thistle for healthy liver function may help...but other than that....you should be fine!!!!
[ 04 April 2002: Message edited by: hOtTiEcHiK ]
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fizzygirl
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(to get off the original topic a little!)
My father is actually on the Atkins diet right now, and has dropped 2 pants sizes. It works for him b/c he's one of those guys that *needs* to eat more protein, etc as he does physically hard work. Slim fast ain't gonna work for him!
I did have concerns about it, and looked at one of the books--I think it's important to note that the basic Atkins books don't say that you will remain at that level of little to no carbs for the rest of your life. You are told, when you have lost that weight, to gradually add them back in until you are at a stable weight. The drastic cutback is just a temporary thing. I could never do it, as most convenience foods that I can take to work or pack in a lunch do not lend themselves to low-carbs.
My father is actually on the Atkins diet right now, and has dropped 2 pants sizes. It works for him b/c he's one of those guys that *needs* to eat more protein, etc as he does physically hard work. Slim fast ain't gonna work for him!
I did have concerns about it, and looked at one of the books--I think it's important to note that the basic Atkins books don't say that you will remain at that level of little to no carbs for the rest of your life. You are told, when you have lost that weight, to gradually add them back in until you are at a stable weight. The drastic cutback is just a temporary thing. I could never do it, as most convenience foods that I can take to work or pack in a lunch do not lend themselves to low-carbs.
hOtTiEcHiK
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Alright....I'm not trying to get on the defensive, however I was giving advice to supplement with a product that will not do any harm to the body (Milk Thistle) whether or not the Atkin's diet is damaging on the liver or kidney functions. Not to create friction, but I was under the impression that this message board was to promote a *friendly* exchange of helpful information to one another, not to jump down each others backs declaring how long you've been studying the subject of the Atkin's diet as to make yourself seem superior in comparison to others. However to counteract your arguement:
Here is an article published by a doctor regarding extensive information on high protein diets in general and their effects on the mind and body- positive and negative-
"One of the most important reasons for the popularity of high protein diets is they work--people lose lots of weight fast--but it's mostly water. Stored carbohydrate contains large amounts of water. Switching to a low-carbohydrate diet results in the loss of these stores and the associated water, with an impressive initial weight loss. In addition, if the diet is low enough in carbohydrate, like the Atkins diet, then the body goes into ketosis, causing suppression of the appetite, thereby you eat and suffer less. I call these "the make yourself sick diets," because they simulate metabolic changes that take place during illness--ketosis is a natural state that occurs when people are sick--a time when they shouldn't be gathering and preparing food, but rather recuperating."
"Protein is metabolized by the liver and excreted by the kidneys into the urine. A high protein load causes damage to these organs. By the eighth decade of life people in affluent societies commonly lose about 30 percent of their kidney function (J Gerentol 31:155, 1976). This loss is believed to be secondary to overwork of the kidneys caused by the amount of protein typically consumed on the American diet, 12% to 15% protein (N Engl J Med 307:652, 1982). The Zone diet recommends 30% protein, and even more protein is found in other high-protein diets. Low protein diets (4% to 8%) are used routinely to treat patients with liver and kidney failure."
"High protein diets cause serious metabolic changes that lead to bone loss and kidney stones. Red meat, poultry, fish, shellfish, and eggs are acidic in make up. Vegetable foods are alkaline by nature. The body guards its acid-base balance (pH) carefully so that all of the pH-dependent biochemical reactions take place normally. The dietary-derived acid load from high-protein animal foods must be buffered. The primary buffering system of the body is the bones which dissolve for that purpose into phosphates and calcium. The alkaline phosphate then buffers the animal-food derived acid. This is the first step in bone loss that leads to osteoporosis. The second step leading to osteoporosis consists of changes in kidney physiology caused by the acid, the sulfa containing amino acids (plentiful in meat), and the increased solute load, all resulting in a loss of large amounts of bone material, including calcium, into the urine. The presence of this bone material in the kidney system also lays the foundation for calcium-based kidney stones."
http://www.drmcdougall.com/debate.html
In regards to your source: Of course the Atkin's website is going to endorse their own diet... You also pointed out:
"Point being that if you're not predisposed to kidney problems then high protein will be alright."
Well, if someone is consistently using ecstacy,therefore predisposing themselves to kidney problems, along with the Atkin's diet, I can see kidney problems being a risk factor. Hopefully you are right that the Atkin's diet does not lead organ problems in the future, however wouldn't it be better to pop a supplement or two that may aleviate any such problem if it did happen to occur? Better safe than sorry...
[ 05 April 2002: Message edited by: hOtTiEcHiK ]
Here is an article published by a doctor regarding extensive information on high protein diets in general and their effects on the mind and body- positive and negative-
"One of the most important reasons for the popularity of high protein diets is they work--people lose lots of weight fast--but it's mostly water. Stored carbohydrate contains large amounts of water. Switching to a low-carbohydrate diet results in the loss of these stores and the associated water, with an impressive initial weight loss. In addition, if the diet is low enough in carbohydrate, like the Atkins diet, then the body goes into ketosis, causing suppression of the appetite, thereby you eat and suffer less. I call these "the make yourself sick diets," because they simulate metabolic changes that take place during illness--ketosis is a natural state that occurs when people are sick--a time when they shouldn't be gathering and preparing food, but rather recuperating."
"Protein is metabolized by the liver and excreted by the kidneys into the urine. A high protein load causes damage to these organs. By the eighth decade of life people in affluent societies commonly lose about 30 percent of their kidney function (J Gerentol 31:155, 1976). This loss is believed to be secondary to overwork of the kidneys caused by the amount of protein typically consumed on the American diet, 12% to 15% protein (N Engl J Med 307:652, 1982). The Zone diet recommends 30% protein, and even more protein is found in other high-protein diets. Low protein diets (4% to 8%) are used routinely to treat patients with liver and kidney failure."
"High protein diets cause serious metabolic changes that lead to bone loss and kidney stones. Red meat, poultry, fish, shellfish, and eggs are acidic in make up. Vegetable foods are alkaline by nature. The body guards its acid-base balance (pH) carefully so that all of the pH-dependent biochemical reactions take place normally. The dietary-derived acid load from high-protein animal foods must be buffered. The primary buffering system of the body is the bones which dissolve for that purpose into phosphates and calcium. The alkaline phosphate then buffers the animal-food derived acid. This is the first step in bone loss that leads to osteoporosis. The second step leading to osteoporosis consists of changes in kidney physiology caused by the acid, the sulfa containing amino acids (plentiful in meat), and the increased solute load, all resulting in a loss of large amounts of bone material, including calcium, into the urine. The presence of this bone material in the kidney system also lays the foundation for calcium-based kidney stones."
http://www.drmcdougall.com/debate.html
In regards to your source: Of course the Atkin's website is going to endorse their own diet... You also pointed out:
"Point being that if you're not predisposed to kidney problems then high protein will be alright."
Well, if someone is consistently using ecstacy,therefore predisposing themselves to kidney problems, along with the Atkin's diet, I can see kidney problems being a risk factor. Hopefully you are right that the Atkin's diet does not lead organ problems in the future, however wouldn't it be better to pop a supplement or two that may aleviate any such problem if it did happen to occur? Better safe than sorry...
[ 05 April 2002: Message edited by: hOtTiEcHiK ]
Sorry Hottie I didn't mean to jump down your throat.
And Yes, I do feel a little superior on the subject of lowcarbohydrate diets then most people, especially in the context of a forum that isnt focused on diets.
Does that make me a better person then you and other people that havn't studied it as much as I? Am I "superior in comparison to others", as you said I was trying to situate myself to be with claims? Yes.
Better safe, then sorry, I agree. It was just as much of a response to another person in this thread saying that low carb diets being a crock, then to your post about kidneys alone. Perhaps I seem passionate about the subject and that's being mistaken more for anger.
Dr. McDougall, like Atkins, also wants to sell products and put people on programs. If that's a criticism of the Atkins site, then they are equal in that way.
And Yes, I do feel a little superior on the subject of lowcarbohydrate diets then most people, especially in the context of a forum that isnt focused on diets.
Does that make me a better person then you and other people that havn't studied it as much as I? Am I "superior in comparison to others", as you said I was trying to situate myself to be with claims? Yes.
Better safe, then sorry, I agree. It was just as much of a response to another person in this thread saying that low carb diets being a crock, then to your post about kidneys alone. Perhaps I seem passionate about the subject and that's being mistaken more for anger.
Dr. McDougall, like Atkins, also wants to sell products and put people on programs. If that's a criticism of the Atkins site, then they are equal in that way.
From the website:
Dr. McDougall is the author of several national bestsellers including: The McDougall Plan: 12 Days to Dynamic Health, McDougall's Medicine:A Challenging Second Opinion, The McDougall Program for Maximum Weight Loss, The New McDougall Cookbook, The McDougall Program for Women, and his latest ground breaking book, The McDougall Program for a Healthy Heart. He has a nationally syndicated television show ("McDougall, M.D.") as well as a syndicated weekly talk radio program ("Your Good Health"(On Sabbatical)) .
He has much commercial interest to his arguements. Hey lets all get 'dynamically healthy' in 12 days? hehe The guy is a vegaterian diet advocate. Of course he's going to be extremely down on low-carbing.
His artical begins to debunk the high-animal content of the diets with the headline "Sickening Foods". Nice wording
Then goes onto say
The diseases believed to be caused by meats, egg, and dairy products include most cases of: obesity, heart diseases, adult diabetes, breast, colon, and prostate cancer, gallbladder disease, osteoporosis, kidney failure, kidney stones, multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis, constipation, diverticulosis, hemorrhoids, and hiatal hernia to name a few well studied diseases. You don't have to be a trained nutritionist to see the risk of becoming sick increases the more of these unhealthy foods that are eaten--like with high-protein diets.
Typical vegetarian arguements. Note he has no studies referenced after his paragraph starts in with the words: "The diseases believed to be caused..."
He sites no studies about high protein causing danage to healthy kidneys. When he does site are two studies from 1982 and 1976 about how well the liver functions in people over 80.
He goes on about bone density loses and all sorts of posibilities that can happen if somebody does one of these diets, in fact, incorrectly.
Generally speaking, low carb advocates as a whole do not put much faith in the current dietary beliefs of the medical community. This are slowly changing because people actually are starting to doubt the last word of a given doctor and can much better to the research for themselves these days. At least McDougall sites some studies. That's a lot better then many critics do.
He sites a total of about fifteen studies in his "great debate". I have a book with hundreds of studies that would counter most of his claims. (The Ketogenic Diet a Reference for Physicians and Dieters). Most of them newer studies then his arguements present. I find myself on here again on work's time, and hence not anywhere near my bookshelf
If you really like, I will find the time to discect his article on any key points you're especially curious about, and provide a few references.
Despite the domain name, this place will multiple mcdougall vs atkins vs everyone else arguements exponentially if you'd like to find 20 other people just as convincing as mcdougall or 20 just as convincing to the contrary:
Low carb pro/con studies and opinions of medical people
I'm all for friendly exchange of information, honestly.
While it's funny this subject come up while there are other threads currently going on in this forum about people having jaundiced skin from taking MDMA but I'd sooner attribute that to pre-existing conditions being worsened.
I'd like to counter your last point about users predisposing themselves to liver damage by using MDMA.
I'm not going to say it doesn't cause damage. There's little evidence against that, also.
But I would never make a claim that ecstasy use predisposes people to liver problems. There just isnt anything besides some empyrical case studies to that point.
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*chaoscat*
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To go back to the original question... cheex, I don't know about any medical dangers, but be prepared for the e to feel stronger. It might be advisable to take a smaller amount than you normally would, just in case it is too overwhelming. Then again your diet would also influence your serotonin production, so if your diet is now lower in tryptophan, you could feel an e less. So be cautious!
I've been on a low carb diet for 5 months, and I've been wondering how that would effect an e too. It's not Atkins or anything, just my own good eating ideas, but I've dropped about 2 sizes, and it's been easy! Except after reading this thread I think I could have ketosis
I've been on a low carb diet for 5 months, and I've been wondering how that would effect an e too. It's not Atkins or anything, just my own good eating ideas, but I've dropped about 2 sizes, and it's been easy!
Except after reading this thread I think I could have ketosis LOVING IT!
Bluelighter
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I went on the Atkin's diet for two weeks, and am going back on it tomorrow. I had already lost 2 1/2 stone (over a period of 10 months) before I went on the diet. After two weeks, my weight had gone down another 1/2 stone (7lbs). I really am impressed with it and find that I have more energy, and generally feel healthier. However, one thing I am worried about is the fact that I don't really eat much meat, which probably means I am missing out on a lot of protein. Is it safe to eat a low-carbohydrate (less than 20g a day), without loads of protein? Cheers
Infinite Jest
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Sorry, I posted and never followed up. I'm expert on nutrition, but I do work for a governmental health and fitness promotion organisation.
Here's some info I found recently on high-protein/low-carb:
SOURCE: 'Weight-loss at a cost: implications of high-protein, low-carbohydrate diets' Kathe A Gabel and Robin J Lund, JOPERD, 73 (2), February 2002, 18-21.
Claim 1: weight-loss is due to the composition (high-protein, low-carb) of the diet.
Answer: The only healthy way to reduce weight is to consume less energy than you expend. Either reduce food intake, increase exercise, or both. The Atkins Diet recommends a consumption of 1400 calories a day - which is less energy than one needs. Therefore - weight loss - but not because of the composition of the diet, as Atkins claimed.
Claim 2 relates to the role of insulin in weight loss - Atkins claims it has a role, evidence suggests otherwise.
Claim 3: weight loss is the result of fat loss.
Response: The weight lost from such a diet is due to water loss. As soon as the diet is stopped, this weight will be regained.
Adverse effects listed include: calcium loss, ketosis and inadequate nutrition.
Also see 'Carbohydrate: friend or foe?' by Melinda Manore in ACSM's Health and Fitness Journal, 60 (1), Jan/Feb 2002, 33-35. This also refutes the idea that carbohydrates are the 'bad guy'.
The recipe for weight loss is simple: eat plenty of grains, fruit and vegetables, smaller amounts of meat, poultry, fish and dairy products. Don't eat big meals, don't eat too many fried, or processed, high-sugar foods. Exercise 30 minutes a day. There's no need for special diets or magic bullets, its just down to taking some responsibility for your own health.
Here's some info I found recently on high-protein/low-carb:
SOURCE: 'Weight-loss at a cost: implications of high-protein, low-carbohydrate diets' Kathe A Gabel and Robin J Lund, JOPERD, 73 (2), February 2002, 18-21.
Claim 1: weight-loss is due to the composition (high-protein, low-carb) of the diet.
Answer: The only healthy way to reduce weight is to consume less energy than you expend. Either reduce food intake, increase exercise, or both. The Atkins Diet recommends a consumption of 1400 calories a day - which is less energy than one needs. Therefore - weight loss - but not because of the composition of the diet, as Atkins claimed.
Claim 2 relates to the role of insulin in weight loss - Atkins claims it has a role, evidence suggests otherwise.
Claim 3: weight loss is the result of fat loss.
Response: The weight lost from such a diet is due to water loss. As soon as the diet is stopped, this weight will be regained.
Adverse effects listed include: calcium loss, ketosis and inadequate nutrition.
Also see 'Carbohydrate: friend or foe?' by Melinda Manore in ACSM's Health and Fitness Journal, 60 (1), Jan/Feb 2002, 33-35. This also refutes the idea that carbohydrates are the 'bad guy'.
The recipe for weight loss is simple: eat plenty of grains, fruit and vegetables, smaller amounts of meat, poultry, fish and dairy products. Don't eat big meals, don't eat too many fried, or processed, high-sugar foods. Exercise 30 minutes a day. There's no need for special diets or magic bullets, its just down to taking some responsibility for your own health.
cheesemonkey
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I have been losing at a average rate of 10lbs a month for the last 10 months. Would you like to know what I had for breakfast? 1 lb bacon, 6 large chicken eggs, and a large glass of water. For a snack I has 2 sticks of string cheese. For lunch I consumed 3 large cans of pre-cooked chicken breast in salt & the juice of one lemon. For dinner I had a 2.44lb london broil cooked medium well, 2 cups loosely packed lettuce, 8 peices of asparigus, and a diet rite... not to mention my bag of pork rinds I had for a midnight snack. While this is an extreme low carb day for me, these days are rare. I usually consume about 25g of carbohydrate from low glycemic sources and non starchy veggies. I havent done the exact math, but I have a feeling that is over 1400 calories.
Claim 2 relates to the role of insulin in weight loss - Atkins claims it has a role, evidence suggests otherwise.
Atkins claims that insulin levels in the blood cause cravings for high glycemic carb foods such as bread and candy. This is true. Consume an extremely low level of carbohydrate for 2 weeks and watch your cravings dissapear. Then eat 4 sugar cubes and see what happens. The insulin spike causes cravings for more in the sugar addict, and 90% of obese america is addicted to carbohydrate. You need to get your facts straight.
Claim 3: weight loss is the result of fat loss.
Response: The weight lost from such a diet is due to water loss. As soon as the diet is stopped, this weight will be regained.
If you actually beleive this one, you are one of the OJ DIDNT DO IT people... dont allow what you wish was true to get in the way of common sense. The INITIAL weight loss on ANY diet can be attributed to water weight. I was 290 lbs in the recent past, and am now a lean 160. There is no way to lose over 100 lbs without losing unwanted body fat. Period. End of sentance. If I lost 100 lbs of water, I would be damn dehydrated, wouldnt I? Put a 300 lb man in the desert for a week and give him no water. If 140 lbs of him is excess water that can be lost without ill affect, he shouldnt experience any dehydration or discomfort at all! Think about it son...
Idiocy should be a crime
Also, as far as how healthy a low carb diet is. Do you think sugar is healthy? Do you think we were designed to eat grains? Try and eat a stock of raw wheat and tell me how you like it. Do you think our ancestors ate it? Doubtful. Animal proteins were our main source of sustainance, supplemented with nuts and berries, occasional fruits and vegetables. We didnt always have california avacados and imported nectarines. Eating the way nature intended and not buying into all the rhedoric has made my life much improved. Maybe you should try it.
cm
Claim 2 relates to the role of insulin in weight loss - Atkins claims it has a role, evidence suggests otherwise.
Atkins claims that insulin levels in the blood cause cravings for high glycemic carb foods such as bread and candy. This is true. Consume an extremely low level of carbohydrate for 2 weeks and watch your cravings dissapear. Then eat 4 sugar cubes and see what happens. The insulin spike causes cravings for more in the sugar addict, and 90% of obese america is addicted to carbohydrate. You need to get your facts straight.
Claim 3: weight loss is the result of fat loss.
Response: The weight lost from such a diet is due to water loss. As soon as the diet is stopped, this weight will be regained.
If you actually beleive this one, you are one of the OJ DIDNT DO IT people... dont allow what you wish was true to get in the way of common sense. The INITIAL weight loss on ANY diet can be attributed to water weight. I was 290 lbs in the recent past, and am now a lean 160. There is no way to lose over 100 lbs without losing unwanted body fat. Period. End of sentance. If I lost 100 lbs of water, I would be damn dehydrated, wouldnt I? Put a 300 lb man in the desert for a week and give him no water. If 140 lbs of him is excess water that can be lost without ill affect, he shouldnt experience any dehydration or discomfort at all! Think about it son...
Idiocy should be a crime
Also, as far as how healthy a low carb diet is. Do you think sugar is healthy? Do you think we were designed to eat grains? Try and eat a stock of raw wheat and tell me how you like it. Do you think our ancestors ate it? Doubtful. Animal proteins were our main source of sustainance, supplemented with nuts and berries, occasional fruits and vegetables. We didnt always have california avacados and imported nectarines. Eating the way nature intended and not buying into all the rhedoric has made my life much improved. Maybe you should try it.
cm
"Dear Simon, I'm irresponsible and the only 'high protein' that diet I know about is Atkins, which I'm going to go about in an unhealthy way and do it alltogether wrong. Help!"
^-- This is what your response made me imagine up
I just finished digging a couple books out of my closet and dusting them off. What follows is a very much abreviated reply in comparison to what I'd like everyone to learn as a result of this conversation. It's a combination of my thoughts and experience as well as a lot of statements straight from book authors. I put in some bold breaks to help it's readability in this format.
^-- This is what your response made me imagine up
I just finished digging a couple books out of my closet and dusting them off. What follows is a very much abreviated reply in comparison to what I'd like everyone to learn as a result of this conversation. It's a combination of my thoughts and experience as well as a lot of statements straight from book authors. I put in some bold breaks to help it's readability in this format.
Here's some info I found recently on high-protein/low-carb
I would like to stress two things initially. There are many kinds of low carbohydrate diets. I specialize in some of the ketogenic variations. You'll find these are done in a very educated and responsible action by those who are willing to learn about the interworkings of the body.
Secondly any lowcarb diet is a high-fat diet *as well* as high-protein. If a low carb diet is low in fat also, it is being executed incorrectly and will more likely yeild unhealthy results.
--------------> BREAK
Claim 1: weight-loss is due to the composition (high-protein, low-carb) of the diet.
Well, the weightloss *is* due to the composition of the diet. Any weightloss on any diet that one looses weight on is due to the composision of that diet, silly.
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Infinite Jest
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^^^^^
Now that was a good reply.
I'm still unsure about this one. I think I'd have to concede that my original 'crock of shit' comment was out of order, and applaud you for your replies. I did some more background digging on this one, and it's interesting, the academic literature seems really split - some claiming that lowcarbing is positively harmful, others saying it shows great success with certain groups (the morbidly obese, for example).
I'm frankly not knowledgeable about this one to carry it further, but if you're interested I could email you some references that I found.
As for this:
Now that was a good reply.
I'm still unsure about this one. I think I'd have to concede that my original 'crock of shit' comment was out of order, and applaud you for your replies. I did some more background digging on this one, and it's interesting, the academic literature seems really split - some claiming that lowcarbing is positively harmful, others saying it shows great success with certain groups (the morbidly obese, for example).
I'm frankly not knowledgeable about this one to carry it further, but if you're interested I could email you some references that I found.
As for this:
Yeah, I agree, for most of history animals were definetely NOT our main source of food, hell most of the time one could get hung, stoned, or burned at the stake for killing cows which were far more valuable as sources of labor and milk than they were a couple of steaks....
At the beginning of man maybe there were hunters and gatherers that would chase around a damn antelope for 3 days before catching the thing, and then that be there only meal for the next week, but also remember these people rarely lived past 30....
It is a fact that once man became less nomadic and more of an agricultural society we started living longer and this was mainly because we realized that animals were far more useful as labor for growing crops than they were for killing....
Think about it.... how much corn can you grow in one acre?? As compared to how many acres it takes to feed a cow that your just going to eat??
At the beginning of man maybe there were hunters and gatherers that would chase around a damn antelope for 3 days before catching the thing, and then that be there only meal for the next week, but also remember these people rarely lived past 30....
It is a fact that once man became less nomadic and more of an agricultural society we started living longer and this was mainly because we realized that animals were far more useful as labor for growing crops than they were for killing....
Think about it.... how much corn can you grow in one acre?? As compared to how many acres it takes to feed a cow that your just going to eat??