I started on Ritilan when I was 14 years old. I remember the day well because I was in class and basicly the teacher wouldn't give a fuck if I didn't do any work, as long as I wasn't disruptive (I spent most classes sitting outside) Anyway, I remember sitting there, in maths class and everyone was doing their work and I thought "fuck it, this is boring" and opened my exercise book which was empty except for a few doodles and half harted attempts at working on a grand total of 3 pages, even though it was well into the school year, and I did my school work, The teacher nearly fell of his chair!!, He pulled me aside after class and asked suspiciously "whats going on?" and I told him I was on this new medication and he was like "Yeah, keep taking it!!!!" I went from sitting outside of most classes almost every day and up the office twice a week to rarely being outside class and to the office a couple of times a year.
It is hard to say if it changed my personality because at puberty it changes alot anyway, I was on it grade 8 - 12 (QLD system) By the end I was just abusing it but it did help quieten the screaming noise in my head, I just couldn't Stop before ritilan, I knew I was about to get kicked out of class but I just couldn't help it. Ritilan gave me brakes.
Think back to the last time you felt totally scattered after a big night out...That is what ADHD feels like. Not being able to concentrate for more than 8 seconds, daydreaming, clumsy, mood swings, feeling dopey (especially first thing in the morning) people think your stupid, it really knocks your self esteem around.
It is a fucked up condition that needs to be treated.
I don't know if drugs were the right path, but it did help me at the time. But my environment was a big factor also, Got moved to a Redneck town, I was alot smarter than the rest of the class (You only have to have half a fucking brain to be smarter in these places) few friends, abusive father,...who the fuck knows. Chicken or the egg.
Tell them to turn the TV off for a week for starters, some ADD kids have been "cured" from just this simple thing. Try to eliminate shit from the kids diet, I was on the "feingold diet" when I was in primary school, mum thought it helped, it wasn't like ritilan though.
Some antihypertensives are surposed to be effective for some ADD kids, can't remember which.
Some people have had good results with yoga/meditation.
Whatever you do, do somthing. Try the non drug approach's but if it doesn't work, use the ritilan, it works.
There is a new long acting form of ritilan called concerta which would be better as you don't get the highs and lows. Here is some info.
Concerta
Uses/Indications: Treatment of ADHD in children, adolescents aged 6-18 years (acc to DSM-IV criteria)
Contraindications: Anxiety, tension, agitation; Tourette's syndrome (or family history); glaucoma; hyperthyroidism; arrhythmias; severe angina; MAOIs (incl within 14 days of cessation)
Precautions: Severe depression, psychosis; drug dependence; epilepsy, abnormal EEG; GI narrowing, dysphagia; hypertension; cardiovascular conditions; monitor haematology, growth/ weight gain; pregnancy, lactation, children < 6 years
Adverse Reactions: Headache; GI upset; anorexia; insomnia; asthenia; weight loss; growth retardation; hypertension; CNS disturbance; rash; others, see full PI
Drug Interactions: MAOIs (see Contra); vasopressor agents; coumarin anticoagulants; anticonvulsants eg phenobarbitone, phenytoin, primidone; TCAs, SSRIs; clonidine, other alpha2-agonists
CONCERTA EXTENDED-RELEASE TABLETS (Tablets) Prescription required. S8 CMI. Methylphenidate HCl; NaCl; yellow (18 mg), white (36 mg), extended release tabs; gluten free;
Dose: May be taken with or without food. Administer once daily in the morning. Swallow whole with liquid. Do not crush, divide or chew. Initially 18 mg/day, incr by 18 mg at weekly intervals to max 54 mg/day. Individualise dosage. See full PI
Pack: 18 mg [30] Private: $148.28
Pack: 36 mg [30] Private: $182.57
MIMS Full Prescribing Information for Concerta Extended-Release Tablets Abbreviated Prescribing Information
Janssen-Cilag Pty Ltd
Section: 3(e) Other central nervous system agents
Composition Active. Methylphenidate hydrochloride.
Inactive. Butylated hydroxytoluene, carnauba wax, cellulose acetate, hypromellose, Opacode black NS-78-17715, Opadry clear YS-1-19025-A, phosphoric acid, poloxamer, polyethylene oxide, povidone, sodium chloride, stearic acid, succinic acid and synthetic iron oxides. The 18 mg tablet also contains Opradry II yellow YS-30-12788-A. The 36 mg tablet also contains Opradry II white Y-30-18037.
Description Methylphenidate hydrochloride is the racemic mixture of d,l methyl alpha-phenyl-2-piperidineacetate hydrochloride. The d-isomer is pharmacologically more active than the l-isomer. Molecular formula: C14H19NO2.HCl. MW: 269.77. CAS: 298-59-9. Methylphenidate hydrochloride is a white, odourless crystalline powder. Its solutions are acid to litmus. It is freely soluble in water and in methanol, soluble in alcohol, and slightly soluble in chloroform and in acetone.
Concerta is available as an extended release tablet for once a day oral administration containing methylphenidate hydrochloride 18, 36 or 54 mg. It is designed to have a 12 hour duration of effect.
Actions Methylphenidate is a central nervous system stimulant.
Pharmacology. Pharmacodynamics. The mode of therapeutic action in attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is not known. Methylphenidate is thought to block the reuptake of noradrenaline and dopamine into the presynaptic neuron and increase the release of these monoamines into the extraneuronal space.
Clinical trials. Concerta Extended-Release Tablets were demonstrated to be effective in the treatment of ADHD, in children aged 6 to 12 years, in three pivotal studies. Studies 1 and 2 were single centre, double blind, double dummy, randomised, placebo and active controlled, crossover comparisons (n = 64 and 70). Study 3 was a multicentre, four week, double blind, double dummy, randomised, placebo and active controlled, parallel study (n = 282). The primary comparison of interest in all three trials was Concerta Extended-Release Tablets versus placebo.
The primary efficacy parameter for Concerta Extended-Release Tablets was the Inattention/ Overactivity with Aggression (IOWA) Conners I/O subscale rated by the community school teacher. Statistically significant (p < 0.001) reduction in the Inattention/ Overactivity subscale versus placebo was shown consistently across all three controlled studies for Concerta Extended-Release Tablets once daily.
Onset and duration of efficacy were assessed by the laboratory school teacher using the SKAMP (Swanson, Kotkin, Agler, M-Fynn and Pelham) combined attention ratings for studies 1 and 2. The onset of efficacy was estimated to be 1.5 hours and duration continued through to 12 hours. Patients demonstrated higher productivity and greater accuracy during Concerta Extended-Release Tablets treatment.
Pharmacokinetics. Absorption. Methylphenidate is readily absorbed. Following oral administration of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets to adults, the drug overcoat dissolves and plasma methylphenidate concentrations increase rapidly reaching an initial maximum at about one to two hours. The methylphenidate contained in two internal drug layers is gradually released over the next few hours. Peak plasma concentrations are achieved at about six to eight hours after which plasma levels of methylphenidate gradually decrease. Concerta Extended-Release Tablets once daily minimises the fluctuations between peak and trough concentrations associated with immediate release methylphenidate three times daily. The extent of absorption of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets once daily is generally comparable to conventional immediate release preparations given three times daily.
Following the administration of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets 18 mg once daily in 36 adults, the mean pharmacokinetic parameters were Cmax 3.7 +/- 1.0 nanogram/mL, Tmax 6.8 +/- 1.8 hours, AUCinfinity 41.8 +/- 13.9 nanogram.hour/mL and t1/2 3.5 +/- 0.4 hours. No differences in the pharmacokinetics of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets were noted following single and repeated once daily dosing indicating no significant drug accumulation. The AUC and t1/2 following repeated once daily dosing are similar to those following the first dose of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets 18 mg.
Following administration of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets in single doses of 18, 36 and 54 mg/day to adults, Cmax and AUC(0 to infinity) of d-methylphenidate were proportional to dose, whereas l-methylphenidate Cmax and AUC(0 to infinity) increased disproportionately with respect to dose. Following administration of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets, plasma concentrations of the l-isomer were approximately 1/40 th the plasma concentrations of the d-isomer.
Studies on the effects of dosing after overnight fasting, after consumption of a normal breakfast and a high fat breakfast showed no differences in pharmacokinetics or pharmacodynamics of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets. There is no evidence of dose dumping in the presence or absence of food.
Distribution. Plasma methylphenidate concentrations in adults decline biexponentially following oral administration. The terminal plasma half-life of methylphenidate in adults following oral administration of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets was approximately 3.5 hours.
Metabolism. In humans, methylphenidate is metabolised primarily by de-esterification to alpha-phenyl-piperidine acetic acid (PPA) which has little or no pharmacological activity. In adults the metabolism of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets once daily, as evaluated by metabolism to PPA, is similar to that of methylphenidate three times daily. The metabolism of single and repeated once daily doses of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets is similar.
Excretion. After oral dosing of radiolabelled methylphenidate in humans, about 90% of the radioactivity was recovered in urine. The main urinary metabolite was PPA, accounting for approximately 80% of the dose. Since renal clearance is not an important route of methylphenidate clearance, renal insufficiency is not expected to have a significant effect on the pharmacokinetics of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets.
Indications Treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in children and adolescents aged 6 to 18 years.
A diagnosis of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD; DSM-IV) implies the presence of hyperactive-impulsive or inattentive symptoms that caused impairment and were present before age 7 years. The symptoms must cause clinically significant impairment, e.g. in social, academic or occupational functioning; and be present in two or more settings, e.g. school (or work) and at home. The symptoms must not be better accounted for by another mental disorder. For the inattentive type, at least six of the following symptoms must have persisted for at least six months: lack of attention to details/ careless mistakes; lack of sustained attention; poor listener; failure to follow through on tasks; poor organisation; avoids tasks requiring sustained mental effort; loses things; easily distracted; forgetful. For the hyperactive-impulsive type, at least six of the following symptoms must have persisted for at least six months: fidgeting/ squirming; leaving seat; inappropriate running/ climbing; difficulty with quiet activities; `on the go'; excessive talking; blurting answers; cannot wait turn; intrusive. The combined type requires both inattentive and hyperactive-impulsive criteria to be met.
Special diagnostic considerations for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Specific aetiology of this syndrome is unknown and there is no single diagnostic test. Adequate diagnosis requires the use of medical and special psychological, educational and social resources. Diagnosis must be made according to DSM-IV criteria or the guidelines in ICD-10 and should be based on a complete history and evaluation of the patient. Learning may or may not be impaired. The diagnosis must be based upon a complete history and evaluation of the patient and solely on the presence of the required number of DSM-IV characteristics. Treatment with Concerta Extended-Release Tablets is not indicated in all patients with ADHD and the decision to use the drug must be based on a very thorough assessment of the severity and chronicity of the patient's symptoms in relation to the patient's age.
Need for comprehensive treatment programme. Concerta Extended-Release Tablets are indicated as an integral part of a total treatment program for ADHD that may include other measures (psychological, educational and social) for patients with this syndrome. Stimulants are not intended for use in the patient who exhibits symptoms secondary to environmental factors and/or other primary psychiatric disorders, including psychosis. Appropriate educational placement is essential and psychosocial intervention is often helpful. When remedial measures alone are insufficient, the decision to prescribe stimulant medication will depend upon the doctor's assessment of the chronicity and severity of the patient's symptoms.
Long-term use. The effectiveness of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets for long-term use, i.e. for more than four weeks, has not been systematically evaluated in controlled trials. Therefore the doctor who elects to use Concerta for extended periods should periodically re-evaluate the long-term usefulness of the drug for the individual patient.
Contraindications
Known hypersensitivity to methylphenidate or any inactive ingredient used in this product (see Composition).
Patients with marked anxiety, tension and agitation, since the drug may aggravate these symptoms.
Glaucoma.
Family history or diagnosis of Tourette's syndrome.
During treatment with monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs), and also within a minimum of 14 days following discontinuation of a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (hypertensive crises may result).
Hyperthyroidism.
Severe angina pectoris.
Cardiac arrhythmia.
Precautions Use with caution in the following circumstances.
Depression and psychosis. Concerta Extended-Release Tablets should not be used to treat severe depression or for the prevention or treatment of normal fatigue states. In psychotic patients administration of methylphenidate may exacerbate symptoms of behaviour disturbance and thought disorder.
Drug dependence. Concerta Extended-Release Tablets should be given cautiously to patients with a history of drug or alcohol dependence. Chronic abusive use can lead to marked tolerance and psychological dependence with varying degrees of abnormal behaviour. Careful supervision is required during withdrawal from abusive use since severe depression may occur. Withdrawal following chronic therapeutic use may unmask symptoms of the underlying disorder that may require follow-up.
Seizures. There is some clinical evidence that methylphenidate may lower the convulsive threshold in patients with prior history of seizures, in patients with prior EEG abnormalities in absence of seizures and, very rarely, in absence of history of seizures and no prior EEG evidence of seizures. In the presence of seizures, the drug should be discontinued.
Potential for gastrointestinal obstruction. Concerta Extended-Release Tablets are nondeformable and do not appreciably change in shape in the gastrointestinal tract (GIT). They should not ordinarily be administered to patients with pre-existing severe GI narrowing (pathological or iatrogenic) or in patients with dysphagia or significant difficulty in swallowing tablets. Due to the prolonged release design of the tablet, Concerta Extended-Release Tablets should only be used in patients who are able to swallow the tablet whole.
Hypertension and cardiovascular conditions. In the laboratory clinical trials both Concerta Extended-Release Tablets and methylphenidate three times daily increased resting pulse by an average of 2 to 6 beats per minute (bpm) and produced average increases of systolic and diastolic blood pressure of roughly 1 to 4 mmHg during the day, relative to placebo. Therefore, caution is indicated in treating patients whose underlying medical conditions might be compromised by increases in blood pressure or heart rate.
Haematological monitoring. Periodic full blood count, differential and platelet counts are advised during prolonged therapy.
Long-term suppression of growth. Sufficient data on the safety of long-term use of methylphenidate in children are not yet available. Although a causal relationship has not been established, suppression of growth (i.e. weight gain and/or height) has been reported with the long-term use of stimulants in children. Therefore, patients requiring long-term therapy should be carefully monitored. Patients who are not growing or gaining weight as expected should have their treatment interrupted.
Impaired renal function. There is no experience with the use of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets in patients with renal insufficiency.
Impaired hepatic function. There is no experience with the use of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets in patients with hepatic insufficiency.
Carcinogenesis, mutagenesis, impairment of fertility. In a lifetime dietary carcinogenicity study carried out in mice, methylphenidate caused an increase in hepatocellular adenomas at a dose of 60 to 80 mg/kg/day and, in males only, an increase in hepatoblastomas (a relatively rare rodent malignant tumour type) at 60 mg/kg/day. These dose levels are approximately three to eightfold the maximal recommended clinical dose on a mg/m2 basis. There was no increase in tumours at 30 to 40 mg/kg/day (approximately one to fourfold the maximal recommended clinical dose on a mg/m2 basis). The mouse strain used is sensitive to the development of hepatic tumours, and the significance of these results to humans is not known. There was no evidence of carcinogenicity in two strains of transgenic mice administered methylphenidate in the diet for 24 weeks at doses up to 60 to 74 mg/kg/day (approximately three to eightfold the maximal recommended clinical dose on a mg/m2 basis) or in a lifetime dietary study in rats at doses up to 50 mg/kg/day (approximately four to tenfold the maximal recommended clinical dose on a mg/m2 basis).
Methylphenidate was not mutagenic in the in vitro assays (Ames reverse mutation assay, mouse lymphoma cell forward mutation assay). Methylphenidate was weakly clastogenic in vitro (Chinese Hamster ovary cells) but was negative in vivo (mouse bone marrow micronucleus assay). Sister chromatid exchange assay results were positive only at high (cytotoxic) concentrations.
Dietary administration of methylphenidate to male and female mice at doses up to 150 to 160 mg/kg/day did not impair fertility in an 18 week continuous breeding study in which both parents and offspring were treated. This dose was approximately 7 to 16-fold the maximal recommended human dose on a mg/m2 basis.
Use in pregnancy. (Category B3)
Oral administration of methylphenidate to rabbits during the period of organogenesis has produced teratogenic effects at doses of 200 mg/kg/day, associated with systemic exposure (plasma AUC) approximately five to sixfold that in humans receiving the maximal recommended dose. The exposure at the no effect dose in rabbits (60 mg/kg/day) was less than human exposure. Teratogenic effects were not seen in rats at oral methylphenidate doses up to 75 mg/kg/day, associated with systemic exposure of 21 to 25-fold that in humans receiving the maximal dose. Oral administration of methylphenidate to rats from early pregnancy until weaning was associated with maternal toxicity, reduced offspring weight and marginal alterations in neuromotor performance in offspring at a maternal dose of 30 mg/kg/day, approximately three to sixfold the maximum recommended clinical dose on a mg/m2 basis.
The safety of methylphenidate for use during human pregnancy has not been established, and no studies are available on the use of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets in pregnant women. Concerta should be used during pregnancy only if the potential benefit justifies the potential risk.
Use in lactation. Oral administration of methylphenidate to rats from early pregnancy until weaning was associated with maternal toxicity, reduced offspring weight and marginal alterations in neuromotor performance in offspring at a maternal dose of 30 mg/kg/day, approximately three to sixfold the maximum recommended clinical dose on a mg/m2 basis.
It is not known whether methylphenidate is excreted in human milk. Because many drugs are excreted in human milk, caution should be exercised if Concerta Extended-Release Tablets are administered to a breastfeeding woman.
Use in children. The safety and efficacy of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets in children under 6 years old have not been established.
Long-term effects of methylphenidate in children are not yet available. Although a causal relationship has not been established, suppression of growth (i.e. weight gain and/or height) has been reported with the long-term use of stimulants in children. Therefore, patients requiring long-term therapy should be carefully monitored. Patients who are not growing or gaining weight as expected should have their treatment interrupted.
Effect on ability to drive or operate machinery. No studies have been performed on the effect of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets on the ability to drive and use machines. However, Concerta Extended-Release Tablets may cause dizziness. It is advisable to exercise caution when driving, operating machinery, or engaging in other potentially hazardous activities.
Instructions to patients. Concerta Extended-Release Tablets must be swallowed whole with the aid of liquids. Tablets should not be chewed, divided or crushed. The medication is contained within a nonabsorbable shell designed to release the drug at a controlled rate. The tablet shell, along with insoluble core components, is eliminated from the body; patients should not be concerned if they occasionally notice in the their stool something that looks like a tablet.
Adverse Reactions The majority of adverse events that have been recorded were mild. Overall Concerta Extended-Release Tablets were well tolerated. There were no new safety issues not already recorded with immediate release methylphenidate hydrochloride preparations. Frequency of adverse events was similar to that seen with immediate release methylphenidate given three times daily.
Very common (> 10%). Body as a whole. Headache, stomach ache.
Gastrointestinal. Loss of appetite.
Nervous system. Insomnia.
Common (greater than or equal to 1% and < 10%). Body as a whole. Aggravation reaction, asthenia, weight loss.
Gastrointestinal. Nausea and/or vomiting, dyspepsia.
Cardiovascular. Hypertension.
Nervous system. Twitching (tics), dizziness, emotional lability, somnolence, anxiety, depression, nervousness, hostility.
Dermatological. Rash.
Uncommon (greater than or equal to 0.1% and < 1%). Body as a whole. Chest pain, fever, accidental injury, malaise, pain, suicide attempt, migraine.
Cardiovascular. Tachycardia.
Gastrointestinal. Diarrhoea, faecal incontinence, increased appetite.
Nervous system. Apathy, thinking abnormal, abnormal dreams, hallucinations, confusion, hyperkinesia, sleep disorder, speech disorder, vertigo.
Musculoskeletal. Leg cramps.
Respiratory. Cough increased, epistaxis.
Dermatological. Alopecia, pruritus, urticaria.
Special senses. Diplopia.
Urogenital. Urinary frequency, haematuria, urinary urgency.
In addition to the above adverse effects observed with Concerta Extended-Release Tablets, the following have been noted with the use of immediate release methylphenidate products.
Common. Dry mouth, palpitations, arrhythmias, arthralgia.
Rare. Difficulties in visual accommodation, blurred vision, angina pectoris and slight growth retardation during prolonged use in children.
Very rare. Hyperactivity, convulsions, muscle cramps, choreoathetoid movements, Tourette's syndrome, toxic psychosis (sometimes with visual and tactile hallucinations), cerebral arteritis and/or occlusion, abnormal liver function (ranging from transaminase elevation to hepatic coma), thrombocytopenia purpura, exfoliative dermatitis, erythema multiforme, leucopenia, thrombocytopenia, anaemia and poorly documented neuroleptic malignant syndrome.
Interactions Because of possible effects on blood pressure, Concerta Extended-Release Tablets should be used cautiously with pressor agents.
Human pharmacological studies have shown that methylphenidate may inhibit the metabolism of coumarin anticoagulants, anticonvulsants (e.g. phenobarbitone, phenytoin, primidone), and some antidepressants (tricyclics and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors). Downward dose adjustment of these drugs may be required when given concomitantly with methylphenidate. It may be necessary to adjust the dosage and monitor plasma drug concentrations (or, in the case of coumarin, coagulation times) when initiating or discontinuing concomitant methylphenidate.
Serious adverse events have been reported in concomitant use with clonidine, although no causality for the combination has been established. The safety of using methylphenidate in combination with clonidine or other centrally acting alpha2 agonists has not been systematically evaluated.
Overdosage The prolonged release of methylphenidate from Concerta Extended-Release Tablets should be considered when treating patients with overdose.
Symptoms. Signs and symptoms of acute methylphenidate overdosage, resulting principally from overstimulation of the central nervous system and from excessive sympathomimetic effects, may include the following: vomiting, agitation, tremors, hyperreflexia, muscle twitching, convulsions (may be followed by coma), euphoria, confusion, hallucinations, delirium, sweating, flushing, headache, hyperpyrexia, tachycardia, palpitations, cardiac arrhythmias, hypertension, mydriasis and dryness of mucous membranes.
Treatment. Treatment consists of appropriate supportive measures. The patient must be protected against self injury and against external stimuli that would aggravate overstimulation already present. Gastric contents may be evacuated by gastric lavage as indicated. Before performing gastric lavage, control agitation and seizures if present and protect the airway. Other measures to detoxify the gut include administration of activated charcoal and a cathartic. Intensive care must be provided to maintain adequate circulation and respiratory exchange; external cooling procedures may be required for hyperpyrexia.
Efficacy of peritoneal dialysis or extracorporeal haemodialysis for Concerta Extended-Release Tablets overdosage has not been established.
Dosage and Administration Children and adolescents aged 6 to 18 years. Concerta Extended-Release Tablets are administered orally once daily and should be taken in the morning.
Concerta Extended-Release Tablets must be swallowed whole with the aid of liquids, and must not be chewed, divided or crushed.
Concerta Extended-Release Tablets may be administered with or without food.
Dosage may be adjusted in 18 mg increments to a maximum of 54 mg/day taken once daily in the morning. In general, dosage adjustment may proceed at approximately weekly intervals. Patients respond at different dose levels and Concerta Extended-Release Tablets must be titrated to effect on an individual patient needs and response basis.
Patients new to methylphenidate. The recommended starting dose of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets for patients who are not currently taking methylphenidate, or for patients who are on stimulants other than methylphenidate, is 18 mg once daily.
Patients currently using methylphenidate. The recommended dose of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets for patients who are currently taking methylphenidate three times daily at doses of 15 to 45 mg/day is provided in Table 1. Please refer to table 1.
Clinical judgment should be used when selecting the dose for patients currently taking methylphenidate in other regimens. Daily dosage above 54 mg is not recommended.
If improvement is not observed after appropriate dosage adjustments over a one month period, the drug should be discontinued.
Use in infants and children. Concerta Extended-Release Tablets should not be used in patients under 6 years old.
Use in adults. Use of Concerta Extended-Release Tablets in adults has not been studied in controlled studies.
Presentation Tablets, 18 mg (yellow, capsule shaped, marked alza 18 in black ink on one side) 30's; 36 mg (white, capsule shaped, marked alza 36 in black ink on one side) 30's.
Hope this helps
thought i was alone
