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RIP, Muhammad Ali

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One Thousand Words said:
His charisma won him a lot of fans but personally it was his integrity which stood out. He sacrificed personal glory to stand up for his values and was probably the most courageous civil rights fighter in history.
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Courageous? He was rebellious, but he was no Rosa Parks.
He was a fucking professional sportsman exploiting media (especially tv) in a way that was kinda unique.
And he was 'radicalised' - but that was pretty common among young men - especially if they were black and lived in urban areas.
The symbolic gesture of what Ali did with his Olympic gold medal is interesting, but it is a merely a historical tidbit conpared to what the Freedom Riders were able to achieve by engaging in non-violent direct action.
Civil disobedience.
Muhammed Ali was a great man, and i'm not criticising him - far from it.
But he was a convert to Islam by Elijah Mohammed, (who also mentored Malcolm X)who ran the radical Nation of Islam - Islamic teachings specifically tailored to the experience of young black men still living in a segregated nation (parts of it, at least).
He was a radical.
He was so ridiculously charismatic and self-confident that he gained a lot of attention for various reasons - and plenty of good causes.
But compared to people like the "Freedom Riders", or Angela Davis, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King to name but an obvious few, it becomes pretty clear that he may have been "The Greatest of All Time" - but in boxing. Not in politics or activism.
He was a conscientious objector to the war in vietnam.
He told the government and army to pretty much go fuck themselves. Along with all of the blatant racism he had to deal with every day back then. If he wasn't subversive and proud, he'd pretty much have been betraying his community by smilin' pretty for the cameras and keeping his mouth shut.
Shit was fucked up back then - even sport was politically charged. Not to take anything away from Muhammed Ali - but he wasn't the only radical athlete.

Herby, the fact that you saw Cassius Clay as a little kid makes me all the more in awe of you <3
 
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SpaceBinMan said:
Herby, the fact that you saw Cassius Clay as a little kid makes me all the more in awe of you <3
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Just when you thought Herby was as cool as possible... :)

I've not read reviews, however based off of the adverts. The Jesse Owens film looks worhth a watch me thinks. I'm already fairly clued up on his life. Just nothing else :D
 
Raasyvibe said:
We're not talking a "bit of extramarital sex". Ali was a serial adulterer. In his 4 marriages he has 9 children and there's countless others who claim to be his children from all the affairs he had. Prior to his "Rumble in the Jungle" fight, he used training as an excuse to disappear with his mistresses - while married.

basically, guy was a total dog lol
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Wow. You are one judgemental dude. Never done anything wrong Raas? The man was human. Flawed like all of us. I thought it was Christian to forgive but these days it seems most christians are bigoted judgemental hypocrites.

What the fuck have you ever done with your life to judge and call Ali a dog. You aint done shit. That man achieved many things and inspired millions to chase their dreams. So he was an adulterous human. So was Bob Marley. What about all your christian priests mollesting kids. Who are the ones betraying their faith?

Ali was and always will be a legend. You are nothing but a sad god bothering troll.
 
There was (is) something deeply sinister about the Nation Of Islam though. Just after Ali passed I was doing a bit of reading about them. I've read books on the NOI before but wanted to brush up. Their ideology that all white people are the devil and blacks shouldn't marry whites and in fact shouldn't even share the same country seems deeply racist to me.

IIRC Malcolm X dissowned the NOI and converted to traditional Sunni Islam. Many people have speculated that he was in fact assassinated by the NOI for this perceived betrayal although I obviously can't confirm this...it's just what I read. They were also allegedly involved in the murder of Biggie Smalls. Again just what I've read and I can't provide any proof or anything.

Another little known fact about the NOI is that the quote "no VC ever called me nigger" was actually coined by them and Ali was instructed to say this by them.

How much of the phylosophies of the NOI and the teachings of Elijah Mohammed Ali actually believed as oppose to simply spouting them as part of some propaganda campaign is debatable.

Either way ....RIP Mohammad Ali.

An inspirational man and probably the greatest fighter who ever lived <3
 
If you had been a black man/woman raised in similar decades you may well of had a similar ideology. At the very least more impressionable to it...

Im not surprised they were racist, wouldn't you be?? Watching friends getting beaten by police, strung up by red necks. It's a fuckin disgrace...
 
Malcolm X was Ali's friend and probably inspired him to join the NOI. Ironic then that it was the NOI kicking out Malcolm X that caused Ali's friendship with Malcolm X to be fractured and never fixed, something he described as the biggest regret of his life. And Ali too converted to Sunni later on in life fwiw.
 
Raasyvibe said:
We're not talking a "bit of extramarital sex". Ali was a serial adulterer. In his 4 marriages he has 9 children and there's countless others who claim to be his children from all the affairs he had. Prior to his "Rumble in the Jungle" fight, he used training as an excuse to disappear with his mistresses - while married.

basically, guy was a total dog lol
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You never answered my question of when you last had sex. Your whole stance resonates of fucked up Christian moralism borne of jealousy.
 
ScotchMist said:
If you had been a black man/woman raised in similar decades you may well of had a similar ideology. At the very least more impressionable to it...

Im not surprised they were racist, wouldn't you be?? Watching friends getting beaten by police, strung up by red necks. It's a fuckin disgrace...
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I still don't see how being a racist because you've watched your own race being descrimiated against and witnessed racism in the other direction yourself is any excuse. That seems very much an eye for an eye mentality to me .....

Black folk hating ALL white folk because of the racist, segregationist policies of white Americans seems incredibly small minded and somewhat stupid....

The philosophies of the likes of Martin Luther King made far more sense to me in that he wanted to build brigdges and for us all to live together in harmony rather than refering to all whites as the devil, banning interracial marriage and wanting America spit into two seperate countries divided on the grounds of race seems increidibly stupid IMHO....

Almost like Nazi Germany in reverse. I dont see how that can be justified regardless of what discrimination has been witnessed in the past.....

Dr.King FTW IMHO.... <3
 
Yeah, racism amongst black radicals in 1960s USA makes a certain twisted sense to me.
If you've had family murdered by the KKK (like malcolm x's father) for example.

Apparently "two wrongs dont make a right", but sometimes a reactionary stance makes a certain sense.

Again, i dont want to criticise Ali, but i know that her verbose insults were actually quite hurtful to his opponents and their families.
One black man calling another black man a "gorilla" is hardly an act of solidarity.

Great boxer. Not a civil rights hero. But still; legend.
 
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Boxers have always called each other stupid shit to psyche each other out. Ali was King of this. He practically invented the sound bite but was slightly too intellectual for it and usually incorporated it into poetry.

Not bad for a man who graduated 371 out of 396 in his school year.
 
I had always thought that the Gorilla comment was more of a reference to Frazier being big and lumbering in terms of his fighting style rather than a racist slur....IIRC he called Foreman a Mummy as well for the same reason. I assumed it was more of a comment along the lines of saying that these fighters weren't as nimble on their feet as he was.....

Could be wrong though...
 
Best, or worst, one was Alan Minter, 1980, "I ain't losing my title to no black man"

Marvin Hagler beat the crap out of him. The good old non-racist British crowd then bottled Hagler out of the ring before he could receive his belt.

The fight took just under 8 mins and Minters face was unrecognisable from when he'd stepped in the ring.
 
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StoneHappyMonday said:
Best, or worst, one was Alan Minter, 1980, "I ain't losing my title to no black man"

Margin Hagler beat the crap out of him. The good old non-racist British crowd then bottled Hagler out of the ring before he could receive his belt.

The fight took just under 8 mins and Minters face was unrecognisable from when he'd stepped in the ring.
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I just watched it there and it was a brutal beat-down (well deserved for his comments, and the gulf in class was rather apparent), followed by savagery post-fight.

I'm a casual fan of boxing, I'm more into kick boxing and various MMA formats, so I know little about it except for the big names everybody knows. Combat sports are basically the only sports I enjoy watching.

I was watching a load of Chris Eubank fights in the past few days and that man had some real style in the ring %)

Also, after watching the post-fight interviews, I didn't know Roy Hodgson used to coach boxing.
 
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Let's not forget that Ali met with Saddam Hussien in the middle of the Gulf War and negotiated the release of 15 prisoners.

The man transcended race and religion. He wasn't a pious Saint by any means. His job was to beat another human unconscious for fucks sake. He was however a social leader, able to inspire people from all walks of society with a great mix of intelligence and humour.
 
The town I live in has a massive Muslim community (many of which are very good friends of mine). We also have the oldest mosque in the country where Ali had his wedding blessed when he visited in 1977 (i think). I was only a toddler at the time but I remember seeing him and being in awe. He was such a strong personality.

Rassy - I've done a lot of fighting too mainly boxing and MMA. Could trade a few stories with you i imagine
 
BigG said:
Rassy - I've done a lot of fighting too mainly boxing and MMA. Could trade a few stories with you i imagine
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mr.buffnstuff said:
Raasyvibe - any footage of any of your KB fights? What governing body were you under?
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You two just read the first line of my post then tl;dr'd it didn't ya ;)

Boxing is awesome. There's few rushes in life, like showcasing your ripped physique in front of a load of spectators whilst beating another human senseless. The ladies love it.

I don't have the video's of my fights as my old hard drive got corrupted and wiped them all, here's an old pic tho...

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