Misc Revisiting Spice/K2: bad idea?

[John_Burrows]

Hey gang

6 or 7 years ago, when it was still legal, I tried Spice a few times. Got it over the counter from a local head shop. It's the only drug I've tried that "opened up my mind" in ways that really connected with me. The closest anything else came was shrooms, but Spice was the most insane and deep, thought-provoking high ever.

Then it was made illegal and that was that.

Now I find myself wanting to try getting back to that state of mind again. Of course Spice is illegal now, but I see some online retailers. Are there any states where it's still legal? After an hour on Google last night I gave up trying to find an answer. I thought I had heard people were getting around it by selling it as incense but I can't seem to find an answer on that either.

Anyway as I'm doing new research I see a lot of warnings about how toxic it can be. Have things changed in the last 6 years? Now that it's totally underground is it more risky? [Nope - no sources, negro] [seems like a major retailer but I have no idea if I can trust it or how to choose/navigate the dozens of varieties.

Looking forward to some guidance!

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

Sorry we don't allow sourcing here. Spice is a street name for synthetic cannabinoids sprayed onto some kind of inert and smokable herb. Unless you know the specific cannabinoid that you smoked 7 years ago, ie. JWH013, etc, it will be impossible to recreate that experience.

There are so many different synthetics now, some are dangerous, it's best to just stay away from them and stick with something that is safe and reliable. Stick with the mushrooms.

 

[negrogesic]

Getting a little too close to sourcing.

If you want synthetic cannabinoids look for a specific compound and do the research, don't use headshop spice with unknown ingredients. Synthetic cannabinoids can be dangerous and even fatal. They are full agonists (unlike THC, a partial agonist) and there is no ceiling from the high (smoking weed can only get you so high), so you can get higher and higher, and overdose.


Ive smoked some headshop spice, its very strong. I felt more stoned from that than what is ever possible with marijuana. In someways it was more euphoric than weed but at the same time i felt like i was covered with ants. Weird stuff. Stick to weed given its availability...synthetic cannabinoids can kill you or at best drive you crazy. They can also cause some pretty severe withdrawal syndromes (far far worse than heavy marijuana use).

 

[John_Burrows]

Thanks for the reply.

I've been smoking weed for 6 months and I'm already tolerant. Plus it never did a lot for me. Like I said, K2 was the most interesting high I've ever had and I'd like to revisit it. I'm not sure there is such a thing as "headshop Spice" anymore since I don't think you can get it! At least I tried a few local ones...

Getting a little too close to sourcing.

If you want synthetic cannabinoids look for a specific compound and do the research, don't use headshop spice with unknown ingredients. Synthetic cannabinoids can be dangerous and even fatal. They are full agonists (unlike THC, a partial agonist) and there is no ceiling from the high (smoking weed can only get you so high), so you can get higher and higher, and overdose.


Ive smoked some headshop spice, its very strong. I felt more stoned from that than what is ever possible with marijuana. In someways it was more euphoric than weed but at the same time i felt like i was covered with ants. Weird stuff. Stick to weed given its availability...synthetic cannabinoids can kill you or at best drive you crazy. They can also cause some pretty severe withdrawal syndromes (far far worse than heavy marijuana use).

 

[negrogesic]

Yeah, there is no more headshop spice, havent seen it in a headshop for years. There are newer generation synthetic cannabinoids that are not banned but they tend to be even more dangerous and less enjoyable than the ones you tried. If you really are interested in synthetic cannabinoids go on reddit and read about it and figure out to buy a pure RC cannabinoid rather than spice blend.

But, i wouldn't recommend that either. Once again new generation synthetic cannabinoids are less enjoyable and potentially more dangerous. Synthetic cannabinoids are not harmless like weed, can be considered as being "hard drugs", because unlike marijuana, they can be fatal if you take too much, are more habit forming and can result in severe withdrawal symptoms. Its not a consciousness enhancing drug, its a drug of abuse.

 

[Meth novice 79]

This must be literally the first good experience I’ve seen written about that synthetic stuff.

I’ve never tried it but if the kids on YouTube doing it are anything to go by, I’ll give it a miss.

Isn’t it research Chems in the end really?

 

[Wilson Wilson]

The shit that's in the stuff being sold as "spice" today is not the same stuff that was in it 7 years ago when it was in headshops.

Most of today's synthetic noids are ultra potent Russian chems with fatalities linked to them, and they should be dosed in micrograms but in reality are just sprayed on random herbs in unknown doses.

As a result the experience will be extremely unpleasant to say the least. Stay well away from that shit is my advice.

If it's a psychedelic experience you're looking for there's plenty of better options out there.

 

[John_Burrows]

Thanks WW

I've tried LSD, acid and shrooms and whatever that "spice" was years ago it gave me an experience I want to repeat. Any suggestions?

The shit that's in the stuff being sold as "spice" today is not the same stuff that was in it 7 years ago when it was in headshops.

Most of today's synthetic noids are ultra potent Russian chems with fatalities linked to them, and they should be dosed in micrograms but in reality are just sprayed on random herbs in unknown doses.

As a result the experience will be extremely unpleasant to say the least. Stay well away from that shit is my advice.

If it's a psychedelic experience you're looking for there's plenty of better options out there.

 

[sekio]

I would avoiud any commercial spice-type product these days because there are literally dozens of compounds with unpronounceable acronym names and <1nM affinity to CB1 ADSB-FUB-187 e.g. (THC is 10 nM for comparison) - no longer do we have JWH-018, now we have MDMB-FUBINACA, AB-CHFUPPYCA, APINACA, 5FABPINACA etc. Many of them are basically unknowns when it comes to how they effect the body, they're known or rather susopected to be cannabinoid agonists, but beyond that metabolism, toxicity, other side effects etc are total unknowns. It actually makes JWH look comparatively safe and that's scary.

If you want to mess with these synthetic cannabinoids these bets way of using them is by careful measurement and dosing, either by making an acetone solution and spraying it on herbal matter in such a way you get a known, uniform concentration in your mix, or oral use diluted in vegetabole oil.

 

[Phobos]

This must be literally the first good experience I’ve seen written about that synthetic stuff.

I’ve never tried it but if the kids on YouTube doing it are anything to go by, I’ll give it a miss.

Isn’t it research Chems in the end really?

A lot depends on the dose, some of the synth noids I tried I liked some got flushed, but all of them were physically and psychologically dangerous in high dosages.
This is just anecdotal experience, but when using them you shouldn't try to get much higher than your first times on weed, if you do it is very likely that there will be significant negative side effects.

I have had many many pleasant experiences with various synthetic cannabinoids, but none of the first wave and I never used premixed products
I would just get the pure powder and dose it myself.
I have not tried any of the ones that came out in the last few years, the most recent one I tried is THJ-2201.
I have normally used a reasonably safe solvent like ethyl alcohol or pure acetone to dose it on tobacco and I also have made some batches of e-liquid to use with my vape pen.
The difference between the first waves of cannabinoids that hit the market and the ones that came after is that the first ones had been developed by pharma companies that wanted to get them approved for human consumption with a doctor's prescription.
Obviously the pharma companies wanted something that would be safe and tolerable, and the RC manufacturers just started producing those substances at first, but all of them got banned eventually, so chemists started to come up with new ones with making active drugs being the only goal and total disregard for the safety profile.

I recommend you do not use any of the commercial products available today, but if you do decide to experiment, do not be alone, have a sober tripsitter that you trust and be were you can get medical help in a reasonable time frame.
Use volumetric dosing unless you have a scale that is accurate below 5mg, and those models cost several hundreds and only work indoors as they will register even the weakest draft.

 

[Meth novice 79]

A lot depends on the dose, some of the synth noids I tried I liked some got flushed, but all of them were physically and psychologically dangerous in high dosages.
This is just anecdotal experience, but when using them you shouldn't try to get much higher than your first times on weed, if you do it is very likely that there will be significant negative side effects.

I have had many many pleasant experiences with various synthetic cannabinoids, but none of the first wave and I never used premixed products
I would just get the pure powder and dose it myself.
I have not tried any of the ones that came out in the last few years, the most recent one I tried is THJ-2201.
I have normally used a reasonably safe solvent like ethyl alcohol or pure acetone to dose it on tobacco and I also have made some batches of e-liquid to use with my vape pen.
The difference between the first waves of cannabinoids that hit the market and the ones that came after is that the first ones had been developed by pharma companies that wanted to get them approved for human consumption with a doctor's prescription.
Obviously the pharma companies wanted something that would be safe and tolerable, and the RC manufacturers just started producing those substances at first, but all of them got banned eventually, so chemists started to come up with new ones with making active drugs being the only goal and total disregard for the safety profile.

I recommend you do not use any of the commercial products available today, but if you do decide to experiment, do not be alone, have a sober tripsitter that you trust and be were you can get medical help in a reasonable time frame.
Use volumetric dosing unless you have a scale that is accurate below 5mg, and those models cost several hundreds and only work indoors as they will register even the weakest draft.

If only us no idea types had a clue what was going in to our green/white etc hey

 

[Phobos]

If only us no idea types had a clue what was going in to our green/white etc hey

Any harm reduction regarding synthetic cannabinoids requires more tools/time/knowledge than most drugs.
Even then, as sekio said, there is little or no data on the more recent cannabinoids apart from some case studies from hospitalisations and trip reports, actual dosages that people are taking are hard to track as the concentration in herbal mixes is unknown and the same product can contain different noids from batch to batch.
Just to get an idea of what can happen by randomly modifying known molecules, I remember one synth noid was confirmed as potentially lethal for diabetics due to the fact it caused strong hyperglycemia.