Reversal of Benzos Tolerance (??)

[villian]

I think its ludicrous to suggest that after 3-6 months of abstinence, in the grips of protracted withdrawal syndrome living in fairly consistent agony that to take flumazenil is 'nasty' and 'dangerous'. Especially considering any decent facility with respectable doctors are going to proceed cautiously with initially small and gently escalating doses, and a bucket full of backup options. That being said, I certainly wouldnt go this route without a LONG period free of all benzos.

The Coleman Institute (http://www.thecolemaninstitute.com/benzodiazepine-xanax-addiction-detox.html) does this.

Lots of people on benzowithdrawal and benzobuddies have gone there. There are no positive reports. It can and has made things worse for many people.

I guess he is also working on a flumazenil implant -- it is being tested on sheep at the moment

EDIT: Guess australia is looking into it as well -- http://www.druginfo.adf.org.au/news..._of_a_new_treatment_for_benzodiazepine_withdr

 

[MagickalKat777]

villian, they are not doing it in the right order. They are using flumazenil to knock the benzos off of the receptors... I think the primary discussion here is POST-benzo, using flumazenil to reset the BZD receptors to their original configuration, thus kicking any and all protracted withdrawal symptoms.

Its honestly an interesting idea but the doctors would much rather sit there and say "here, take this anti-depressant, and this gabapentin, and if that doesn't work, take this lyrica, oh and don't forget to take the ambien too! What? That's not working? Zyprexa, Abilify, Risperdal, Seroquel, and Geodon to the rescue!" *eye roll*

 

[burn out]

can anyone else comment on using flumazenil long after completing a benzo taper, to reverse the receptor changes that cause prolonged withdrawal symptoms?

is there any reason not to try?

 

[StaySedated]

"Reversal of Benzo Tolerance" lol...

for druggies(esp. benzo lovers like myself) thats like finding a cure for cancer.

one could only wish...

 

[The450Man]

Ive been digging for an answer for two years. Have had little luck.

nmda antagonists may have some share.

 

[MurphyClox]

can anyone else comment on using flumazenil long after completing a benzo taper, to reverse the receptor changes that cause prolonged withdrawal symptoms?

is there any reason not to try?

Please read through this thread before posting random questions. You should pay attention in particular to what Ebola wrote...

- Murphy

 

[DJHENRU]

this is lyrica/pregabalin question, sure there must be atleast minor potentiation/tollerance reversal having magnesium in diet, since its a diuretic? is there any other ways to reverse this drugs tollerance. When I first took 75mg! 12 hours after 5 mg of roxycet trying to taper off opiates, I was sedated, and experienced good pain releif(it wasnt that long it just worked well)

In opiate withdrawl pain sensitivity agony I was taking higher doses like 300/+
Does if give perma tollerance like gabapentin?
Personally if I had money, and was on benzos, Id just buy some phenibut.

 

[/navarone/]

Would NMDA antagonists help in any way?

 

[thanksbutnotranx]

Hey all. Anybody having trouble with benzos or withdrawal check out this site. Its got everything you need to know...peace.

http://recovery-road.org/

P.s... this is not spam... im going through a protracted withdrawal myself from diazepam and this site has been a Godsend to me.

 

[P A]

Please read through this thread before posting random questions. You should pay attention in particular to what Ebola wrote...

...what Ebola wrote wasn't at all relevant to the proposed use of flumazenil in this thread and elsewhere, which would require far lower [saner] doses than would be sufficient to provoke epileptiform activity in 99% of healthy humans; albeit the risk is certainly elevated respective to the degree of individual benzo tolerance/severity of addiction, but I understand that the minor tranquilizers' anticonvulsant properties are slower to ebb than their sedative actions.

is there any reason not to try?

Not really, provided that dosage is well-controlled and accounted for. When it comes to moderately convulsant intravenous BZD antagonists, it's best to know exactly what your doing. Otherwise, don't bother.

for druggies(esp. benzo lovers like myself) thats like finding a cure for cancer

nmda antagonists may have some share.

Would NMDA antagonists help in any way?

And so a cure has been found. Also:

http://content.karger.com/produktedb/produkte.asp?typ=pdf&file=PHA2005075002093

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6SYT-4FB3G9Y-1&_user=10&_coverDate=12/31/1997&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1548195535&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=e9194ba1c410668e883bd7697832cf39&searchtype=a

Obviously, it's all wildly theoretical, but either way, I can't really comprehend its necessity in the first place, at least outside of treatment-resistant epilepsy and severe otherwise-uncontrollable panic disorders. I mean, effeffess, just go get some baclofen and grain ethanol and alternate those with the benzos on a 3-days on:1-day off schedule [or whatever works best].

 

[MagickalKat777]

Antagonize NMDA to the point where you beat it into submission and GABA gets up-regulated in response... This not only reverses benzo tolerance, it reverses alcohol, opiate, and amphetamine tolerance as well.

DXM and memantine are great for this purpose. Delsym (the twelve hour time release formula of DXM) is perfect for NMDA antagonism - 30mg twice a day... Certainly FAR safer than flumazenil...

Its not good if you use MDXX compounds though. I honestly wonder if such a dose is actually dangerous in practice with MDXX but I'm not going to be the one to find out.

Memantine at 40mg a day has been used to get off of benzos successfully, in combination with topamax towards the end. Its what I'm going to do... I'm going to do the DXM for a week and by the end of the week I'm sure my 40mg of valium will knock me out cold (a sign that I'm taking too much) so I will drop it. A few days later. Another drop.

But the most promise to get off of benzos is NMDA antagonism - then continue the antagonism when you're off of the benzos to give your brain time to recover enough GABA, then you can either continue or discontinue the antagonist.

 

[burn out]

Not really, provided that dosage is well-controlled and accounted for. When it comes to moderately convulsant intravenous BZD antagonists, it's best to know exactly what your doing. Otherwise, don't bother.

Ok I have a doctor ready to go through with this. He has experience using flumazenil as part of a treatment protocol for alcoholism and he says the dosage being used in the studies for protracted benzo withdrawal is much lower. He doesn't seem to think it's that risky. I am 21 months off benzos now and still have a number of symptoms. Can anyone give me a reason NOT to go through with this treatment? I realize it may not work, but as long as there aren't any significant risks of long term complications I will attempt it.

Basically, my biggest concern is, is there any chance a flumazenil treatment will mess up natural recovery from benzos?

 

[burn out]

Well gave this a try a few hours ago, had 2 mgs of flumazenil gradually over the course of an hour or so. So far I have not noticed any change in my withdrawal symptoms. I don't think it worked to reset tolerance.

 

[mad_scientist]

^^^

I think to "reset" benzo tolerance you will need to take flumazenil daily for at least several months (just comparing it to the opioid addiction recovery protocols using naltrexone or nalorphine)

Does your doctor also have you on some kind of anticonvulsant? Would seem like a sensible precaution, though obviously have to be something with a distinct mechanism of action - maybe topiramate or something like that which has a history of use in anti-addictive treatments as well. But if your doctor is experienced with these protocols then I'd imagine they know what they are doing...

 

[burn out]

No, he does not/did not have me on any type of anti convulsant. I don't think convulsions are common with flumazenil except for patients who are actually still on benzos and have it and he made me take a drug test to verify I was not taking any benzos. None of the people in the studies where they attempted to use flumazenil to reset receptors had convulsions.

I agree that I might need to take flumazenil daily in order for there to be real lasting benefits however from the studies I've read immediate benefits (or benefits arising after several hours) could be felt after the first session (even if only temporary). I don't feel like I got any benefits. Do you think I should still keep trying?

 

[ebola?]

You want to run a lengthy taper and then remain benzo free for a long period.

ebola