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Research Chemicals slowly becoming accepted as psychiatric medications...

ShulginsReincarnation

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I am noticing something that I thought about what feels like only a short while ago, though by now its been quite some time and some more recent thoughts have come to mind specific to more recent thoughts that I have had on certain substances in question. That something is the use of research chemicals for, well... exactly that: scientific research into whether or not said substances can be used appropriately as psychiatric medications. I want to say it was 3-MMC and now 5-MeO-MiPT that are being investigated for one thing or another in terms of psychiatric applications. Pretty interesting to say the least in my opinion. More interesting is that AI was asked to pick an RC that sounded promising for such, and AI picked 5-MeO-MiPT after analyzing 70,000 different trip reports. Says a lot about 5-MeO-MiPT to me lol

Thoughts? Comments? Questions? Concerns?
I, myself, have all 4 of these but I will let others chime in now :p
 
What exactly are they looking for these chemicals to be used for; just interested because of my concerns about all the side effects of various psychiatric medications. I have read and heard horror stories about many anti- depressants, anti-anxiety and anti- psychotic medications.

There seems to be an unwillingness to try to improve on these types of medications. Yes, every so often new meds appear. They however, seem to variations of the same meds with bad side effects.

I just am wondering what they are for and do these have any chemical structures that would immediately scare the American FDA? It seems from articles on the subject that these are for PTSD, are there any other types of RC's that are being tested for major long depression and anxiety? If so how far along are they with any clinical trials.

I am also wondering if these RC's, will even be given a chance. I admit my real concern is the lobbies for Big Pharma which have years even decades, and most importantly a lot of money at stake. Will there be any new meds available in America in the near future that can mimic the effects or reduce causes of anxiety and severe long term depression without the side effects of benzos or anti- depressants currently available in America?

Also I saw a CNN Health online article about LSD on generalized anxiety disorder, march7, 2024 but is this going to drag on like MDMA and Psilocybin research and phase 3 trials? The article acted like LSD at 100micro grams was really effective. Last updated almost 10 months ago.

I read about this kind of stuff, but it never amounts to anything other than a headline and goes nowhere. Is it ever going to more than talk. Also, the support for the war on opiods that affects so many pain patients and these happen with democrats in office? The Republicans would be my first guess, but no, but I doubt much will happen if both parties are in relatively the same place. The Democrats have proven it recently and the Republicans have a history of this.
It is not even a political fight if both sides are more or less in agreement.

Then there was the a while back articles and talk of amphetamines being the new opiod crisis. This happened with Biden in office and Democrats in power, but the Republicans will probably just agree.

So is there any real likely hood, of any psychedelics being approved or any Research Chemicals ever being approved? Will research and trials ever about psychedelics be anything other than headlines and online chatter?
 
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What exactly are they looking for these chemicals to be used for; just interested because of my concerns about all the side effects of various psychiatric medications. I have read and heard horror stories about many anti- depressants, anti-anxiety and anti- psychotic medications.

There seems to be an unwillingness to try to improve on these types of medications. Yes, every so often new meds appear. They however, seem to variations of the same meds with bad side effects.

I just am wondering what they are for and do these have any chemical structures that would immediately scare the American FDA? It seems from articles on the subject that these are for PTSD, are there any other types of RC's that are being tested for major long depression and anxiety? If so how far along are they with any clinical trials.

I am also wondering if these RC's, will even be given a chance. I admit my real concern is the lobbies for Big Pharma which have years even decades, and most importantly a lot of money at stake. Will there be any new meds available in America in the near future that can mimic the effects or reduce causes of anxiety and severe long term depression without the side effects of benzos or anti- depressants currently available in America?

Also I saw a CNN online article about LSD on generalized anxiety disorder, march7, 2024 but is this going to drag on like MDMA and Psilocybin research and phase 3 trials?

I read about this kind of stuff, but it never amounts to anything other than a headline and goes nowhere. Is it ever going to more than talk. Also, the support for the war on opiods that affects so many pain patients and these happen with democrats in office? The Republicans would be my first guess, but no.

Then there was the a while back articles and talk of amphetamines being the new opiod crisis. This happened with Biden in office and Democrats in power, but the Republicans will probably just agree.

So is there any real likely hood, of any psychedelics being approved or any Research Chemicals ever being approved? Will research and trials ever about to anything other than headlines and online chatter?
Long story short, yes. All valid concerns, but things are changing rapidly behind the scenes. Big things coming soon from what all I have seen, but soon is a relative word I guess. What's another 50 years or so? I'm sure most of us will be dead by then, but at least we will get to begin to see some of these type of things hitting the markets world wide by then I imagine. That, or even some major changes in legislations regarding the natural psychedelics more akin to how they once were prior to demonization by the various world governments.
 
Long story short, yes. All valid concerns, but things are changing rapidly behind the scenes. Big things coming soon from what all I have seen, but soon is a relative word I guess. What's another 50 years or so? I'm sure most of us will be dead by then, but at least we will get to begin to see some of these type of things hitting the markets world wide by then I imagine. That, or even some major changes in legislations regarding the natural psychedelics more akin to how they once were prior to demonization by the various world governments.
What, really scares me is that there is not a political debate to raise this to the level of public attention. Both sides could care less about legalized weed, ok the Republicans maybe more against it but a Republican legislature and a Democrat governor have given Michigan the loosest pot laws outside of, I swear I am not joking North Korea where it is totally legal.

However, this century has seen both parties pass opiod laws, Democrats leading the charge with Republicans not offering any resistance and are as supportive probably. Also Nothing suggests anything but noise that makes headlines and is forgotten because there are no advocates with any power and lobbyists paying off both sides to keep the status quo on psychiatric medications and no push or any debate or anyone with any power who will do anything.

This is a non issue to The Washington DC crowd. Normally one side or the other fights with other and it can spark a national debate. There is no debate, no fights no cares, no concerns, not even any dimwitted celebrities trying to push this as any sort of talking point or debate. Do a handful of people on here have any power, of course not.

Is there any real strong advocates, it doesn't appear so, and can anything be done?

Marijuana legalization in many areas took a while and there was huge debates and that was slow going. These type of things get nothing and no one.
 
What, really scares me is that there is not a political debate to raise this to the level of public attention. Both sides could care less about legalized weed, ok the Republicans maybe more against it but a Republican legislature and a Democrat governor have given Michigan the loosest pot laws outside of, I swear I am not joking North Korea where it is totally legal.

However, this century has seen both parties pass opiod laws, Democrats leading the charge with Republicans not offering any resistance and are as supportive probably. Also Nothing suggests anything but noise that makes headlines and is forgotten because there are no advocates with any power and lobbyists paying off both sides to keep the status quo on psychiatric medications and no push or any debate or anyone with any power who will do anything.

This is a non issue to The Washington DC crowd. Normally one side or the other fights with other and it can spark a national debate. There is no debate, no fights no cares, no concerns, not even any dimwitted celebrities trying to push this as any sort of talking point or debate. Do a handful of people on here have any power, of course not.

Is there any real strong advocates, it doesn't appear so, and can anything be done?

Marijuana legalization in many areas took a while and there was huge debates and that was slow going. These type of things get nothing and no one.
Pain patients are increasingly guilty until proven innocent. The insane "war profiteering" all along the line is both comical and infuriating. Patients with a proven track record of compliance, now being summoned for spot pill counts, UA's AND $800 GC/MS analysis despite the cheap UA in-office cup test results being "correct." The labs screwing over pain patients w/ 800. GC/MS tests must be raking in the cash. And Doctors not using their volume discount power to negotiate a reasonable price is lame. It might make sense to order a GC/MS test if/when the in-office cup reads "dirty" or anomalous at very least.

Yes, this rant is largely off topic, but it's just outta control punitive for patients who have NEVER had any issue w/ compliance and have proven long-term opioids can work extremely well for people w/ serious chronic pain. The Doctors that have the balls and compassion to remain practicing pain medicine have no choice but to jump through all the hoops, lest the DEA and state licensing boards rough them up as well. The DEA's own data shows drug diversion at the individual patient level is about 1% of the pharma opioids that hit the street. 2/3 of the leakage aka diversion happens in the medical system. Fucking over pain patients does nothing to stop the problem of illegitimate pharma opioids hitting the streets and the DEA's own data proves it. And the self-righteous puritanical arseholes at PROP (physicians for responsible opioid prescribing) making multi six figures as expert witnesses at the pharma shakedown trials will tell anyone who'll listen about the great satan of our time, opioid pain meds. As states and municipalities go after Pharmacies and Pharma companies, it's all greed.

How much of this shakedown money goes toward treatment for dependency, mentally ill, homelessness, or safe supply or something that actually helps someone on main street. And the iron law of prohibition continues to prove itself eternal truth, over and over again w/ each new ever more deadly synthetic opioid. The manageable problem of pharma pills being diverted to the street, is now a 6 figure annual runaway death train w/ fentalogues and Nitazines at the wheel. A train of their own damn making. Yet, they are even more fucking clueless as of now then when it started late 90's. Punishing the honest doctors and compliant pain patients. Wow, how did that rant become such a novel, apologies to all who wasted 5 min reading that steaming turdloaf on rye. And the media? Well, don't even start me on their role in this clusterfuck salad sandwich. Hope yer all well. Me gone.
 
It's been going on for decades - psychedelics and empathogens being researched as antidepressants in various formulations.

5-MeO-MiPT seems like a good candidate, and i'm quite partial to it.

Appearing as an RC before appearing in institutional research is just par for course. I don't want to be cynical but i don't think this is a new wave or paradigm shift, just more of an ongoing process.
 
What, really scares me is that there is not a political debate to raise this to the level of public attention. Both sides could care less about legalized weed, ok the Republicans maybe more against it but a Republican legislature and a Democrat governor have given Michigan the loosest pot laws outside of, I swear I am not joking North Korea where it is totally legal.

However, this century has seen both parties pass opiod laws, Democrats leading the charge with Republicans not offering any resistance and are as supportive probably. Also Nothing suggests anything but noise that makes headlines and is forgotten because there are no advocates with any power and lobbyists paying off both sides to keep the status quo on psychiatric medications and no push or any debate or anyone with any power who will do anything.

This is a non issue to The Washington DC crowd. Normally one side or the other fights with other and it can spark a national debate. There is no debate, no fights no cares, no concerns, not even any dimwitted celebrities trying to push this as any sort of talking point or debate. Do a handful of people on here have any power, of course not.

Is there any real strong advocates, it doesn't appear so, and can anything be done?

Marijuana legalization in many areas took a while and there was huge debates and that was slow going. These type of things get nothing and no one.
You are already seeing states and cities legalizing formerly Schedule I psychedelics without much pushback. Why do you seem to ignore these facts?
 
Marijuana is different, it can't cross states lines or Federal prison for trafficking if large enough and no one cares enough to do shit, other meds big problems and can't use credit cards or be specifically sold as prescription and the DEA and FDA, don't care. This is different. Try growing opium poppies and then harvesting the resin and selling it, decades in the federal prison system
 
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also, they FDA Approval for any prescription drugs. Supplements and such as in the ones not specifically banned are a Grey area, until like 'bath salts', MDMA use to be sold legally in Texas, now big trouble. It has to with crossing state lines and prescription FDA Approval. That is why IT'S and certain designer drugs are in a Grey area. No FDA approval, no prescription status and the government has the power to ban stuff as they what to.
The Marijuana thing is different, basically there are or were laws about
Beating young wife only on Sunday in front of the court house with a stick no larger in diameter than your thumb; hence rule of thumb, American expression to a darker time. Also look up stupid laws, until a few decades ago the list was much longer and funnier.
Laws about women no being able to cut their hair short if married. A Texas one where you were required to fire off a rifle or shotgun at an intersection, back when cars first came out. There are or were strange and stupid laws. It just depends on whether they will enforce it.
Just like Kratom is legal but some states it isn't because no federal law, tianpidine or whatever that Zaza red and other opiod like stuff is.
But can't get a drug approved, no legal prescription, every doctor needs a DEA number to prescribe medications. If it is prescription it has to be federally approved, no exceptions.
Marijuana falls into the feds don't care category, but try selling large amounts over statelines, and if caught, you will be a number in a cage for years or decades.
 
also, they FDA Approval for any prescription drugs. Supplements and such as in the ones not specifically banned are a Grey area, until like 'bath salts', MDMA use to be sold legally in Texas, now big trouble. It has to with crossing state lines and prescription FDA Approval. That is why IT'S and certain designer drugs are in a Grey area. No FDA approval, no prescription status and the government has the power to ban stuff as they what to.
The Marijuana thing is different, basically there are or were laws about
Beating young wife only on Sunday in front of the court house with a stick no larger in diameter than your thumb; hence rule of thumb, American expression to a darker time. Also look up stupid laws, until a few decades ago the list was much longer and funnier.
Laws about women no being able to cut their hair short if married. A Texas one where you were required to fire off a rifle or shotgun at an intersection, back when cars first came out. There are or were strange and stupid laws. It just depends on whether they will enforce it.
Just like Kratom is legal but some states it isn't because no federal law, tianpidine or whatever that Zaza red and other opiod like stuff is.
But can't get a drug approved, no legal prescription, every doctor needs a DEA number to prescribe medications. If it is prescription it has to be federally approved, no exceptions.
Marijuana falls into the feds don't care category, but try selling large amounts over statelines, and if caught, you will be a number in a cage for years or decades.
I see. So you are concerned about the federal government? I don't understand though. Why care if your state has made the effort to legalize psychedelics? Some states I thought mushrooms are legal now? I have even heard rumors of there being mushroom dispensaries in the US in places (Denver, Colorado maybe? Or, maybe Oregon/Washington? I am not sure which I was told had them as its been a little while and I have had a lot go on for me recently.) Is that not true, or are you saying that the federal government isn't allowing it so its not as if it truly matters? I am a bit confused.

I get the cannabis thing though as I have been watching the federal government in the US fight states over the matter to some degree or another for a while (since Prop 215 in California actually.) But over time they just kind of gave up. I think it was in 1974 or 1976 they gave states control over cannabis laws, but then they tried to go back after Prop 215 passed if I remember correctly. I don't know, but either way, how does this exactly apply to psychedelics?
 
You, don't get it, it has to be FDA approved to be a prescription drug. The Federal government if they wanted to could shut down every Marijuana dispensary. They aren't prescription drugs, even though some state required a Marijuana card from some quack doctor , but they are not prescription and can not be put into circulation as such. They just can't, get over it. Also like bath salts which were actually some sort of fake weed, the government said nope and they had to be taken away. Some didn't comply and now they get free room and board in a Federal prison.
The Marijuana thing was first done by California and people did get arrested and shut down and then they just said fuck it. Marijuana most knew was not that bad, and until something is banned it can be sold but not prescribed.
if you violate a law of a banned substance, other than Marijuana which people did go to prison over but the feds said we don't care and the states didn't listen, the government just said fuck it.
If you cross state lines with a certain amount and are caught, federal prison.
If you try to sell anything like most stuff that is banned, unless state approved and the feds are like we don't care, not prescription though, but banned and the government doesn't care, they you are rolling the dice, technically if The feds want too they could shut down and arrest and imprison every pot shop owner.
But they don't care, mushrooms ah, maybe but here in Michigan they are legal in four areas. If you go outside them you could face prison at the state level and if in large quantity federal. Also the feds could charge you if you have certain designer drugs and not certain ones that aren't banned. But as far as prescription drugs go, you don't even think of messing with that if you are in state government because you will go to prison.
If they tried ( the states to legalize heroin) you would see a shit storm, and hundreds of guys with machine guns and body armor will pay you a visit and to the state capital and arrest anyone involved.
If you sell certain drugs, then if the police find out, jail and prison. If over certain amounts then the feds with machine guns and armored vehicles will pay you a visit.
THE STATES ARE PLAYING A GAME OF CHICKEN, WITH THE FEDS. BUT PRESCRIPTION DRUGS, WILL ONLY EVER BE LEGAL IF THE FDA APPROVES THEM. WHICH IS DIFFICULT.
The mushroom thing is the states testing the feds and the feds have given up on Marijuana after they went after some places and owners when California first approved it, then said we don't care. BUT PRESCRIPTION DRUGS ARE DIFFERENT AND YOU NEED A DEA NUMBER TO PRESCRIBE THEM, AND YOU HAVE TO BE A DOCTOR MD, DO( THAT IS A DOCTOR OF OSTEOPATHIC MEDICINE) OR SOME SORT OF DENTIST OR ORAL SURGEON ECT...
The weed and mushroom thing is the states violating federal law but not in a way that pisses them off, enough to do anything. If the states tried to legalize, cocaine, there would be 2 problems. 1st cocaine it is a schedule 2 drug regulated for very specific medical procedures and 2nd the government officials who allowed it could be imprisoned for possibly decades. And if some one were stupid enough to sell some thing not state approved and federally banned, then jail and probably prison after LSD was federally banned in 1968, before that you could order it from the back of magazines, but certain states banned it.
It all depends on what the federal government will do. HOWEVER THERE WILL BE NO PRESCRIPTION DRUGS WITHOUT FDA APPROVAL. AND IF THEY TRIED MEN IN BODY ARMOR AND TOTING MACHINE GUNS WILL SHOW THEM THERE NEW HOME FOR YEARS OR DECADES!
The states can regulate non federally banned substances all they want unless that regulation passes them off. Certain substances will get you arrested if you have them, and they are federally banned and the government cares. BUT YOU DO NOT FUCK WITH THE FDA OR HERE COMES THE FEDS LIKE A MILITARY ASSAULT. The mushrooms occupy a strange place, because the spores are legal because of no hallucinating substances in them, but they develop it, then they are illegal, but the states are betting the feds will not care, and technically there could be a problem but Marijuana and psychedelic mushrooms are not high priority.
Prescription drugs cross state lines and only the feds can approve them. There are lots of states and people breaking the federal law, but the DEA and FDA, don't care. But if the feds find out you are selling Marijuana across state lines and it is in quantity, you will be paid a very unpleasant visit and have your life ruined.
This government has it's quirks and the states, like to test things out, but prescription meds, no chance unless FDA approval. Much has to do with prescription drugs, crossing state lines and high priority substances.
People end up in big trouble with certain substances and there is no chance of a prescription med without FDA approval, the fed changed the opiod laws, thousands of doctors arrested. When you look at the fact that most were just family, internal medicine doctors, writing scripts for patients they had done for years, then you get panic and opiods become hard to get, legally. The government can be a monster here, and the states can get a feel of what they can get a way with.
There was a smoke shop that continued to sell a federally banned substance, opps, bye bye business and personal freedom.
Marijuana and a prescription drug are separate, if you can't understand that then there is no point discussing it.
 
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You, don't get it, it has to be FDA approved to be a prescription drug. The Federal government if they wanted to could shut down every Marijuana dispensary. They aren't prescription drugs, even though some state required a Marijuana card from some quack doctor , but they are not prescription and can not be put into circulation as such. They just can't, get over it. Also like bath salts which were actually some sort of fake weed, the government said nope and they had to be taken away. Some didn't comply and now they get free room and board in a Federal prison.
The Marijuana thing was first done by California and people did get arrested and shut down and then they just said fuck it. Marijuana most knew was not that bad, and until something is banned it can be sold but not prescribed.
if you violate a law of a banned substance, other than Marijuana which people did go to prison over but the feds said we don't care and the states didn't listen, the government just said fuck it.
If you cross state lines with a certain amount and are caught, federal prison.
If you try to sell anything like most stuff that is banned, unless state approved and the feds are like we don't care, not prescription though, but banned and the government doesn't care, they you are rolling the dice, technically if The feds want too they could shut down and arrest and imprison every pot shop owner.
But they don't care, mushrooms ah, maybe but here in Michigan they are legal in four areas. If you go outside them you could face prison at the state level and if in large quantity federal. Also the feds could charge you if you have certain designer drugs and not certain ones that aren't banned. But as far as prescription drugs go, you don't even think of messing with that if you are in state government because you will go to prison.
If they tried ( the states to legalize heroin) you would see a shit storm, and hundreds of guys with machine guns and body armor will pay you a visit and to the state capital and arrest anyone involved.
If you sell certain drugs, then if the police find out, jail and prison. If over certain amounts then the feds with machine guns and armored vehicles will pay you a visit.
THE STATES ARE PLAYING A GAME OF CHICKEN, WITH THE FEDS. BUT PRESCRIPTION DRUGS, WILL ONLY EVER BE LEGAL IF THE FDA APPROVES THEM. WHICH IS DIFFICULT.
The mushroom thing is the states testing the feds and the feds have given up on Marijuana after they went after some places and owners when California first approved it, then said we don't care. BUT PRESCRIPTION DRUGS ARE DIFFERENT AND YOU NEED A DEA NUMBER TO PRESCRIBE THEM, AND YOU HAVE TO BE A DOCTOR MD, DO( THAT IS A DOCTOR OF OSTEOPATHIC MEDICINE) OR SOME SORT OF DENTIST OR ORAL SURGEON ECT...
The weed and mushroom thing is the states violating federal law but not in a way that pisses them off, enough to do anything. If the states tried to legalize, cocaine, there would be 2 problems. 1st cocaine it is a schedule 2 drug regulated for very specific medical procedures and 2nd the government officials who allowed it could be imprisoned for possibly decades. And if some one were stupid enough to sell some thing not state approved and federally banned, then jail and probably prison after LSD was federally banned in 1968, before that you could order it from the back of magazines, but certain states banned it.
It all depends on what the federal government will do. HOWEVER THERE WILL BE NO PRESCRIPTION DRUGS WITHOUT FDA APPROVAL. AND IF THEY TRIED MEN IN BODY ARMOR AND TOTING MACHINE GUNS WILL SHOW THEM THERE NEW HOME FOR YEARS OR DECADES!
The states can regulate non federally banned substances all they want unless that regulation passes them off. Certain substances will get you arrested if you have them, and they are federally banned and the government cares. BUT YOU DO NOT FUCK WITH THE FDA OR HERE COMES THE FEDS LIKE A MILITARY ASSAULT. The mushrooms occupy a strange place, because the spores are legal because of no hallucinating substances in them, but they develop it, then they are illegal, but the states are betting the feds will not care, and technically there could be a problem but Marijuana and psychedelic mushrooms are not high priority.
Prescription drugs cross state lines and only the feds can approve them. There are lots of states and people breaking the federal law, but the DEA and FDA, don't care. But if the feds find out you are selling Marijuana across state lines and it is in quantity, you will be paid a very unpleasant visit and have your life ruined.
This government has it's quirks and the states, like to test things out, but prescription meds, no chance unless FDA approval. Much has to do with prescription drugs, crossing state lines and high priority substances.
People end up in big trouble with certain substances and there is no chance of a prescription med without FDA approval, the fed changed the opiod laws, thousands of doctors arrested. When you look at the fact that most were just family, internal medicine doctors, writing scripts for patients they had done for years, then you get panic and opiods become hard to get, legally. The government can be a monster here, and the states can get a feel of what they can get a way with.
There was a smoke shop that continued to sell a federally banned substance, opps, bye bye business and personal freedom.
Marijuana and a prescription drug are separate, if you can't understand that then there is no point discussing it.
I get what you're saying, but I think you are looking at things all wrong.
I am not going to get into it with you, but I recommend looking at the progressive nature of psychedelic medicine in the USA. Learn how its become more and more accepted, and once you have some actual insight into these things then I think we may have something to discuss. Until then, it seems you are maybe about 20-30 years behind the times in terms of what all has changed with regard to what is going on in the medical industry and regulatory bodies regarding psychedelic medicine in the USA.
 
I get what you're saying, but I think you are looking at things all wrong.
I am not going to get into it with you, but I recommend looking at the progressive nature of psychedelic medicine in the USA. Learn how its become more and more accepted, and once you have some actual insight into these things then I think we may have something to discuss. Until then, it seems you are maybe about 20-30 years behind the times in terms of what all has changed with regard to what is going on in the medical industry and regulatory bodies regarding psychedelic medicine in the USA.
Just saying ,I dosed,hadn't in eons a good while back,just was a bucket list check off and I truly don't get bummed out much after what I did to my brain with fent And aluminum, needed that connection with tree bark and life under rocks,seeing the sun rays through the trees like some alien force,to lay in moss and see the tiny villages, then later to become one with the popcorn ceiling,helped me more,I'm behind in the times in all that's changed,but catching up
 
What exactly are they looking for these chemicals to be used for; just interested because of my concerns about all the side effects of various psychiatric medications. I have read and heard horror stories about many anti- depressants, anti-anxiety and anti- psychotic medications.

There seems to be an unwillingness to try to improve on these types of medications. Yes, every so often new meds appear. They however, seem to variations of the same meds with bad side effects.

I just am wondering what they are for and do these have any chemical structures that would immediately scare the American FDA? It seems from articles on the subject that these are for PTSD, are there any other types of RC's that are being tested for major long depression and anxiety? If so how far along are they with any clinical trials.

I am also wondering if these RC's, will even be given a chance. I admit my real concern is the lobbies for Big Pharma which have years even decades, and most importantly a lot of money at stake. Will there be any new meds available in America in the near future that can mimic the effects or reduce causes of anxiety and severe long term depression without the side effects of benzos or anti- depressants currently available in America?

Also I saw a CNN Health online article about LSD on generalized anxiety disorder, march7, 2024 but is this going to drag on like MDMA and Psilocybin research and phase 3 trials? The article acted like LSD at 100micro grams was really effective. Last updated almost 10 months ago.

I read about this kind of stuff, but it never amounts to anything other than a headline and goes nowhere. Is it ever going to more than talk. Also, the support for the war on opiods that affects so many pain patients and these happen with democrats in office? The Republicans would be my first guess, but no, but I doubt much will happen if both parties are in relatively the same place. The Democrats have proven it recently and the Republicans have a history of this.
It is not even a political fight if both sides are more or less in agreement.

Then there was the a while back articles and talk of amphetamines being the new opiod crisis. This happened with Biden in office and Democrats in power, but the Republicans will probably just agree.

So is there any real likely hood, of any psychedelics being approved or any Research Chemicals ever being approved? Will research and trials ever about psychedelics be anything other than headlines and online chatter?

there is no progressive nature too the FDA. And Congress nope.
I get what you're saying, but I think you are looking at things all wrong.
I am not going to get into it with you, but I recommend looking at the progressive nature of psychedelic medicine in the USA. Learn how its become more and more accepted, and once you have some actual insight into these things then I think we may have something to discuss. Until then, it seems you are maybe about 20-30 years behind the times in terms of what all has changed with regard to what is going on in the medical industry and regulatory bodies regarding psychedelic medicine in the USA.


I gotta agree with jnowhere.

None of this psychedelic shit is going anywhere. I work for big pharma if that carries any weight. It’s not that they even have to block it; no clinicians will even use such treatments even if they are approved unless there is a financial incentive. We have ketamine infusion clinics because ketamine doesn’t work and ppl keep desperately coming back hoping it will. If ketamine cured patients they would never come back (ppl would probably cure themselves by self medicating at home) and the clinics would go out of business. It’s simply preying on the desperate that can’t be cured.

The barrier to patent ability will be hard also. The drugs cannot be patented; their medical use might be patentable but in my legal opinion; the medical uses will not be patentable. This will make it extremely unlikely that any pharma company wants to manufacture it. Generic companies won’t think it’s worth it either because it’s such an uncommon treatment.

Ketamine has the benefits of longstanding use and acceptance in medicine and these psychedelics do not.

With the shitshow of the opioid epidemic being blamed on medical use of opioids; you can rest assured that any drug that has any reputation of being remotely recreational will not be used by clinicians even if approved out of fear. One person goes psychotic and kill’s themselves, doctor gets sued or prosecuted by our pro drug war police state; no doctor ever touches the treatment again.
 
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We have ketamine infusion clinics because ketamine doesn’t work and ppl keep desperately coming back hoping it will. If ketamine cured patients they would never come back (ppl would probably cure themselves by self medicating at home) and the clinics would go out of business. It’s simply preying on the desperate that can’t be cured.

Ketamine has the benefits of longstanding use and acceptance in medicine and these psychedelics do not.
I partially agree with this sentiment which is why I advocate for those seeking ketamine treatment as I understand WHY they seek it, but I also highlight the pitfalls which IRONICALLY include it having addictive potential and notoriety for being used recreationally. As a matter of fact, the night life in the UK sees plenty of ketamine use and the youth in the USA seems to have quite the fondness as well. Its a socially acceptable alternative to alcohol among users of club drugs as well as the hippy type as well.

Its interesting how you both made your point and also promptly destroyed it in only three short paragraphs. I actually just spoke with a woman who got addicted to ketamine through a doctor and nearly died of the addiction and is currently in a mental institution for example. The off-label use of ketamine is FAR riskier than psychedelics, and if you think otherwise I suggest looking into the work Professor David Nutt did in his ranking the various drugs of abuse in terms of harm to user and society. Ketamine ranks alongside benzodiazepines whereas the classic hallucinogens rank among top three safest with MDMA a close fourth. So, I think your views have been skewed in a somewhat similar manner to those of @Jnowhere without acknowledging the progress being made in the right direction due to cognitive baises.

All psychotherapeutic work would be done in a controlled fashion. No one is just going to be handing these things out like we saw with adderall or oxycontin in the US. This is definitely a much much different situation, and the legal implications will certainly be limited by consent to treat forms being signed as is the case any time someone receives treatment in a medical setting in the USA.

To repeat: ketamine therapy is far more risky than using tryptamines in therapy and this is a well established fact. You literally countered your own point here, but the point is somewhat valid in the tryptamines are more effective in terms of therapeutic potential for mental conditions meaning they don't result in long term profits. However, it would be profitable for those psychotherapists working with patients as these are NOT cures. Patients WILL need long term treatment none the less, but by using psychedelics it facilitates such and reduces the negative impacts mental illness has on the economy. Maybe not as beneficial as it would be in places like here in Europe where healthcare is socialized, but still it is beneficial to the bottom lines of ALL corporations in USA which should obviously drive HUGE investments to such treatments once available and well established of course. Its a work in progress, and I think it would be funny if I present this question here in about two more decades so we can look back and see the exact progress I was refering to in the above here in this thread while people still deny any progress being made.

there is no progressive nature too the FDA. And Congress nope.

The following facts can't really be argued against. I still think you're just focusing your energy on the negative aspects of the fight which is very counter-productive if you actually want these medicines to become legal. If you did you would focus on how you can help further these initiatives, especially considering the government is funding them... Which you say they aren't... or whatever.... lol

### 1. **Natural Medicine Health Act of 2021**

- **Overview:** Introduced in the House of Representatives, this bill aims to reclassify certain natural psychedelic substances, such as psilocybin (found in "magic mushrooms") and MDMA (commonly known as ecstasy), from Schedule I to Schedule II under the Controlled Substances Act.
- **Purpose:** Reclassification would facilitate scientific research and pave the way for the therapeutic use of these substances in medical settings.
- **Status:** While the bill garnered support from several lawmakers, it faced challenges in the Senate and had not been passed into law by October 2023.

### 2. **Advancing Research on Psychedelic Therapies Act**

- **Overview:** Various iterations of this act have been introduced to increase federal funding and support for research into the therapeutic benefits of psychedelics.
- **Purpose:** The act seeks to allocate resources to institutions like the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) and the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) to conduct clinical trials and studies on substances such as psilocybin, LSD, and MDMA.
- **Status:** These proposals have been introduced in both the House and Senate but are pending further review and debate.

### 3. **Funding Allocations in the Consolidated Appropriations Acts**

- **Overview:** Subsequent Consolidated Appropriations Acts have included specific provisions allocating funds for psychedelic research.
- **Purpose:** By directing financial resources toward institutions like NIDA and MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies), Congress has supported ongoing and future studies into the medical applications of psychedelics.
- **Examples:**
- **2022 Consolidated Appropriations Act:** Allocated funds to support MAPS’ Phase 3 clinical trials of MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD.
- **2023 Appropriations Measures:** Continued funding for psychedelic research initiatives, emphasizing the potential mental health benefits of these substances.

### 4. **Psychedelic Science Caucus Initiatives**

- **Overview:** While not an official caucus, a group of bipartisan lawmakers has shown interest in forming a caucus dedicated to psychedelic science and policy reform.
- **Purpose:** To promote legislative efforts that support psychedelic research, address regulatory barriers, and explore the therapeutic potential of these substances.
- **Activities:** Hosting hearings, sponsoring bills, and facilitating discussions between scientists, policymakers, and stakeholders in the psychedelic community.

### 5. **MAPS Rescheduling Act**

- **Overview:** Proposed legislation aimed at rescheduling MDMA and other psychedelics to facilitate their medical use.
- **Purpose:** By lowering the scheduling classification, the act would make it easier for researchers to study these substances and for medical professionals to prescribe them as part of therapy.
- **Status:** Introduced in Congress but awaiting further legislative action and debate.

### 6. **Decriminalization and Local Legislative Support**

- **Overview:** While not directly federal legislation, several state-level actions supported by progressive members of Congress have influenced national perspectives on psychedelics.
- **Examples:**
- **Oregon’s Psilocybin Services Act (2020):** Legalized the supervised use of psilocybin for therapeutic purposes, serving as a model for potential federal reforms.
- **Denver and Washington D.C. Decriminalization Measures:** Local decriminalization efforts have received backing from some Congressional members, encouraging broader acceptance and legislative interest.

### 7. **H.R. 1317 – Medical Psychedelics Research Act**

- **Overview:** Introduced to remove regulatory barriers that hinder psychedelic research and to support the development of psychedelic-based treatments.
- **Purpose:** Streamline the approval process for clinical trials, increase funding for research, and establish guidelines for the safe use of psychedelics in medical settings.
- **Status:** Awaiting committee review and further legislative processing.

### 8. **Bipartisan Support and Advocacy**

- **Overview:** Growing bipartisan support in Congress for the exploration and legitimization of psychedelic medicine.
- **Examples:**
- **Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)** and **Senator Cory Booker (D-NJ)** have both expressed support for increased research and the potential therapeutic benefits of psychedelics.
- **Representative Earl Blumenauer (D-OR)** has been a vocal advocate for psychedelic research funding and policy reform.

### **Conclusion**

While significant strides have been made, much of the legislative progress toward legitimizing psychedelic medicine remains in the proposal and advocacy stages. Key actions include introducing bills like the Natural Medicine Health Act and the Advancing Research on Psychedelic Therapies Act, allocating federal funding for research through appropriations acts, and fostering bipartisan support for policy reforms. Continued advocacy and legislative efforts are essential to translate these progressive actions into concrete legal frameworks that fully legitimize and integrate psychedelic medicine into mainstream healthcare.
 
To repeat: ketamine therapy is far more risky than using tryptamines in therapy and this is a well established fact. You literally countered your own point here,


This does nothing to counter my own point. I also don’t even know what point you’re talking about because you didn’t say; the point that psychedelic drugs are never going to become a mainstream treatment? You’re really high on yourself or something else to be making such huge leaps and connections and be typing out dissertations full of irrelevant material that doesn’t get to the point of why this won’t be used in the clinic.



All your pontificating about rights, murky efficacy in a field as gray as psychiatry, and trials take a very idealistic approach to all this. Nobody gives a shit about ideals. This is a business. Good luck finding someone to manufacture pharmaceutical psychedelics that have zero chance at being patented, zero chance at being used wide spread on many patients, zero chance of being used with high repetitive dosing and thus being profitable. And extremely big bullseyes for lawsuits and law enforcement.

Good luck convincing Congress and the DEA that ecstacy and acid related drugs are good for medicine. Especially in the wake of the opioid epidemic. This is America; no institutions of power are as high on acid as you are and none of them give a shit about spreading acid like drugs to the masses. Drugs are all drugs to normal people. Congress and average Americans ain’t Bluelight. That’s something that’s going to face widespread political and legal opposition.

Let me know when you can get a drug as harmless as weed removed from schedule 1 like you’ve been trying to for decades amd has much more medical applicability; and then we can talk about niche, unprofitable use of powerful hallucinogens for rare diseases that aren’t profitable to treat because the diseases are rare and the dosing won’t be repetitive.
 
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It is sad to think that many psychedelics may have real benefits, or even various analogs, but FDA approval always seems to die.

There are many possible uses and many have argued and I agree there could be real potential, but in the heated political climate both sides seem to be against any medication that could help people out of political concerns.

People can argue all they want, but FDA approval of psychedelics has only really occurred, somewhat under the table by states trying to circumvent Federal law and then the Feds doing nothing.

Even though psilocybin has shown many promising attributes if used in regulated test doses, the politcal ramifications scares most of the politicians and, there is big money at stake and big Pharma can't have their profits destroyed by something as inexpensive to produce as a synthetic version, which could, according to research help anxiety and depression without the nasty side effects of most antidepressants and benzos.

Also the funding for this research seems to a liability and few in Congress want to have their names attached to it.
The long and deliberately slow process of new pharmaceuticals is an issue, that both sides do not want, if it involves any type of controversy and the media is hungry for that.

So, states legalizing and the government doing nothing is how it will be in America unless, the tide shifts one way or the other.
 
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