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Bupe Relapse 2 days into sobriety - seems to have shortened WD's?

I do get yawning and watery eyes as well (both when I was withdrawing from Norco and the bupe), but I agree with Secobarbital- those were the LEAST of my worries. The chills, aches, depression, restlessness, and anxiety far overshadowed it... almost to the point where I didn't even notice them to be honest lol. I also start sneezing a lot, I hear that's pretty common as well.

To both DustNRoses and Suessmayr, how are your withdrawals going? Any more symptoms to speak of? That's great that you're not feeling much DnR... maybe it will be easier for you this time. Hang in there! <3
 
Well it's a bit over 5 days since the last 1mg (but that dose was separated from the previous one by a few days) and I've been sleeping better and better. I'm still taking at night 60mg codeine, 4mg diazepam, 50mg doxylamine succinate and my usual effexor and avanza and a shitload of natural shit (magnesium, multivit, fish oil, vit B...), but I've been taking that since day 1 and even on the nights I didn't sleep so this improvement must be real.

I have an unrelated question: probably the biggest issue for me right now is anxiety. Anxiety is essentially the reason I ever got into downers and it's now come back and is alot worse. I can sometimes not even speak to family face-to-face as my head starts racing and I panic and feel so intensely doomed and sweat and just hate all exchanges. It's like playing a game whose rules I don't really understand; I have no interest in dealing with people right now and can only say what seems to be appropriate.

There are family guests from England coming to stay here (my mum's) this weekend and I'm really concerned about what to do. These are people I care about and respect - 2 surgeons and a fucking rio tinto dude (their standing somehow makes it all more intimidating, as the anxiety seems to revolve around peoples' judgements) - and I know there is no chance that I'll be able to like, sit down for dinner or any of that shit.

Do you guys think that going to my dad's or just back home this weekend would be some kind of copout?

S
 
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I like clonidine for the racing heart/head. It is a blood pressure med that lowers your heart rate. Commonly prescribed for kicking, easy to get. It's not a magic bullet, but it does help.
 
Also I have a little bit of codeine and valium still but I can't afford to use it for anything except sleep.

I feel I should clarify that I gave the specifics of the guest-situation not to be a prat but because it has a massive effect on the nature of my anxiety. It's like, meeting with a lecturer or doctor causes me to feel many times more anxious than speaking to a stranger, or like a bus-driver. I think it's a combination of acquaintance with and respect for the person.

S
 
I think I might be out of the woods with my WD's...the only lingering symptoms are the slight cold and hot, chills thing, but it's a lot milder than it has been. It's been a little difficult to get comfortable when trying to sleep, but not to the point where it's keeping me up all night...I can manage to get 5-7 hours a night.

In regards to your question, suessmayr, if you don't want to be around those people because of the anxiety, do whatever you want...make up an excuse for why you have to be away. I would if I was in your situation. You can just say you came down with the flu or something and that can buy you a few days.
 
Yeah I think I might have to. The thing is that I know my mum wants me to be here because she wants me to meet with family and for them to see that I'm 'on the right track' or whatever; I think it was embarrassing for her having to tell them about bupe/methadone/drugs generally. Now things are different in alot of ways and I think it's important to her that 'the family' knows. I don't think she appreciates how fucking hard things are for me right now.

How long have you been clean DustnRoses, and what dose of what were you on before you stopped? Are you using any opiates or benzos to sleep like I am? I'm getting 5-7 hrs too but there would be no chance of that without the diazepam/codeine/dozylamine. It's beginning to nag at me during the daytime now; I know that I could just take one codeine tablet and feel so much better. But I somehow feel that the nature of my response to this impulse is highly significant - like I've spent the past 3 years always listening to that fucking 'voice', 'just take one, take two, think about it later'. It feels like if I want things to really change I need to be a bit more vigilant.

S
 
suessmayr said:
I don't really follow but I do find that offensive.

I remember when I came off bupe at 20mg I still felt at day 5 like nothing had really happened. It's hard to describe, but I somehow knew that the bupe was just slooowly leaving my body. It has to make some sort of difference that I stopped at 1mg, and that before that I was on 2mg for like a month. But I'll let you guys know if I've miscalculated.

Thanks for the help and good luck to those of you in similar situations!

S
Click to expand...

sorry you find it offensive but there is no need to start several threads in the one day when you can ask the question in this thread which i merged.
 
I don't see how a question about yawning is at all similar to a question about relapse and the withdrawal process? Maybe next time you should just merge it and keep the lip and generalisations to yourself.
 
yawning and teary eyes are part of the withdrawal process...that's the connection...

we've had problems with you starting multiple threads daily in the past when you simply could have added to your original thread.

you're going through wd's so you're likely a little emotional, no offense was meant. as for me being lippy? hardly.

im done with your thread, continue as you please.
 
I've only spoken to one other person about PAWS with bupe - have any of you guys been through this? How long did you have to wait before you began to notice improvements?
 
It's been 5 days for me. In these past 5 days I haven't used any opiates or any drugs besides melatonin. In regards to my dose before stopping...I was using for about 4 weeks, and with my tolerance building quickly, I was up to about .5 g / day towards the end. I am very disciplined with my suboxone though...I can start at 1-2 mg on my first day, and quickly taper. It just takes a strong will with bupe, IMO. It's strong enough to hold almost any habit at small doses.
 
What were you using when you stopped? Was it tramadol? You're probably fortunate in that your habit was only 4 weeks. Still that's fantastic that you've been totally clean for 5 days. Well done.

For me it's nearly 1 week since my last dose of bupe. Feels good to write that. But I still can't really tell where I'm at/whether I'm past the worst of it yet. It seems like the worst of the physical symptoms have passed, but mentally today and yesterday have been the worst by far. I managed to get some exercise today and that definitely helped, if only for an hour or so.

I also got some valerian - has anyone used this before? And I am going to ask my doctor about clonidine again; last time he said it's not really used in Australia and we sort of left it there. But I've read some glowing reports about it and it seems worth following up.

I'm getting worried as my valium and codeine are about to run out. I have left 2x 2mg valium and 8 x 30mg codeine. Are doxylamine, diphenhydramine and clonodine pretty much the only things I could use apart from benzos for anxiety and sleep?

S
 
Regarding the valerian root, it doesn't hurt to try it! It didn't work for me personally... actually, I felt like it made it worse at times somehow... but for other people they say it works wonders. Maybe it has something to do with the way you take it. I used the tincture (I put about 10 drops into some water and then drank it like a shot). But idk, I hear that it's best to just make tea out of the leaves. You might as well try it though, nothing to lose right?
 
Yeah I've got valerian tablets, they also have hops, passion flower and oats. I'll probably start taking them when I run out of codeine.

I've been taking 60mg codeine strictly at bedtime for one week since 2 days after stopping bupe. Do you guys think this could have been enough to maintain the habit and just prolong the WD's until the codeine runs out?

S
 
At the amount that you jumped from, definitely no. You will likely feel some mild additional withdrawal symptoms upon stopping the codeine, but they won't be severe, and may not even be very noticable. 60 mg is a very low dose, but if you're worried about it (or even if not, perhaps,) try reducing the codeine to 45 mg, 30 mg, 15 mg, 7.5 mg, etc.
 
allalong said:
At the amount that you jumped from, definitely no. You will likely feel some mild additional withdrawal symptoms upon stopping the codeine, but they won't be severe, and may not even be very noticable. 60 mg is a very low dose, but if you're worried about it (or even if not, perhaps,) try reducing the codeine to 45 mg, 30 mg, 15 mg, 7.5 mg, etc.
Click to expand...


Thanks man that is intensely reassuring.

I spoke again with my prescriber today and - unexpectedly - he seems quite happy to give me as much codeine as I need. Should I avail myself of this offer or just suck it up when the remaining 6 (x30mg) run out? I feel totally sheepish telling my family I'm clean when in fact I'm using codeine to sleep.

It's nearly 8 days since I stopped the bupe and I think that I'm past the worst of it physically. At the same time exercise was much harder today than it was yesterday, so it's just fucking impossible to know whether I'm improving or getting worse.

S
 
Wikipedia seems to say that 60 mg of codeine is roughly equivalent to 0.15 mg of buprenorphine.

If I were you I would accept the codeine on the basis of whether or not I felt that I needed it. At the doses that you're using, though, I don't see much harm in continuing to dose a small amount of codeine tapered over a few weeks. One thing that I do recommend, however, is not to accept more than 60 mg / day. Not point in raising your tolerance now, after all.
 
Yeah this is my feeling too. I think I probably will get some more codeine 30mg's tomorrow if only for the reassurance; I have always found, unlike some people, that my chances of success in abstinence increase dramatically if I have some sort of store. Knowing that I could make things easier if I wanted to, without having to go out sourcing, has a beneficial effect on my thinking.

It has been extremely difficult for me to resist using the codeine during the day. My anxiety has become unbearable. Worse than it was even before I got into downers. We have guests over presently and I just can't speak to them. Tried a couple of hours ago and just had to literally fucking break off mid sentence and walk away. So embarrassing. I guess this is what PAWS is all about.

S
 
Another thing that has become apparent over the past few days is an increased wakefulness. When I was on bupe, and methadone especially, it took me HOURS to wake up enough to even be able to move properly. I don't think this was the drugs only; they combined, towards the end, with my depression in a horrible way. At one stage I was on modafinil to give me more energy.

Now I'm so fucking anxious and hyper I wake up and it's like bang I'm ready to go.

S
 
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