Reiki

[psychoblast]

I have a new interest in Buddhism, but I was troubled to come across reference to Reiki. Frankly, it looks like a new age scam, with potential benefits based purely on the power of suggestion. Particularly when I found references that the founder of Reiki said a person MUST pay for Reiki attunement to show they take it seriously (awfully convenient, that), and that people are selling Reiki treatment long-distance via mail or e-mail requests for treatment, which seems really absurd.

Theoretically, if every being has an energy within it (chi or soul or just the inherent power of being part of the universal consciousness), and this energy could be understood on an advanced level, and could then be projected to others... Well, I'm still not sure how it could "heal" anything. I mean, if you are deficient in Vitamin B-12, you are deficient. I don't see this chi as a way to transfer Vitamin B-12 to a sick person.

I mean, I can see accepting the idea we are all fragments of a universal consciousness, with which we merge on death and so find a form of immortality in that. I can even see potential that if we truly recognized this and studied how we are interconnected to everything else, some sort of seemingly "supernatural" stuff might be possible, such as learning to communicate your will on distant objects since, in fact, you are part of the same whole and are connected on some level. But I have never seen this proven, and I am skeptical of it. And I am particularly skeptical about forms of supernatural healing techniques that do not seem to be supported by any scientific evidence, but only by the occasional (and suspect) anecdotal evidence.

Anyone have any thoughts on Reiki?

~psychoblast~

 

[LAO TZU]

I have a new interest in Buddhism, but I was troubled to come across reference to Reiki. Frankly, it looks like a new age scam, with potential benefits based purely on the power of suggestion. Particularly when I found references that the founder of Reiki said a person MUST pay for Reiki attunement to show they take it seriously (awfully convenient, that), and that people are selling Reiki treatment long-distance via mail or e-mail requests for treatment, which seems really absurd.

Um, well, I don't really know about all that - reiki is a form of healing thousands of years old - traversing a course much as its realtive, the martial art has - being lost, and rediscovered - I don't believe the "true" founder is really known - just the man who rediscovered it in the 1800's.

The components of the Ego can turn *anything* into a business for personal gain, regardless the subject of interest. Do not confuse this with the inherent intentions of the healing arts, for their manifestations are initiated outside the realm of the Ego.

Theoretically, if every being has an energy within it (chi or soul or just the inherent power of being part of the universal consciousness), and this energy could be understood on an advanced level, and could then be projected to others... Well, I'm still not sure how it could "heal" anything. I mean, if you are deficient in Vitamin B-12, you are deficient. I don't see this chi as a way to transfer Vitamin B-12 to a sick person.

Your ignorance on this matter in no way infers you are therefore correct in your assumptions - Chi is the vital 'life-force' that manifests into whatever the body requires - the primordial essence of your beings existence - you simply lack the basic understandings of such phenomenon - you are not even a 'new-born' in this world of spiritual understanding, though closer to just being conceived, and a closed mind will get you nowhere fast on the path.

But its o.k. PB, we must all start somewhere, right?

I mean, I can see accepting the idea we are all fragments of a universal consciousness, with which we merge on death and so find a form of immortality in that. I can even see potential that if we truly recognized this and studied how we are interconnected to everything else, some sort of seemingly "supernatural" stuff might be possible, such as learning to communicate your will on distant objects since, in fact, you are part of the same whole and are connected on some level. But I have never seen this proven, and I am skeptical of it. And I am particularly skeptical about forms of supernatural healing techniques that do not seem to be supported by any scientific evidence, but only by the occasional (and suspect) anecdotal evidence.

Anyone have any thoughts on Reiki?

~psychoblast~

Your attempting to open up here, and yet, you still fall back on your safety net of 'proof' and 'science' -

skepticality will forever keep you from the experience if you hold on to it so firmly - proof & scientific evidence is not the end-all be-all of the phenomenon, it does not function in that manner, and the truly aware never pay any heed to those findings - if it is found, scientifically, so be it - but that is not required for the phenomenon to exist and function in its subtle and evasive manner & to be used by those who have attuned to it.

Indeed, you are missing quite a large chunk of the puzzle that would enable you to see deeper into it - your next few steps on the path will determine your ability to further awaken to it, and they rely on no science & no religious doctrine and no form of 'proof' - you must, at that point , take a leap, a leap into the unknown, and logic, philosophy or psychology cannot serve to assist you there.

I have said to you on more than one occasion here, in this forum, that science is an inherently closed system, as is 'religion' - until you can attain to the realization of that understanding you will never find that which you seek, you must let-go - let-go of that part of you which relies on proof and evidence, or you will remain lost to the greater truth of life itself.

It won't be easy, and it won't happen this instant - though it could be and can if you relax and allow it.

And no, I truthfully do not expect you to get any of what I have just said, as I imagine it is all going over your head right now (as it has so many times before) - but it is for the others here, who might read this and are ready for the information contained within it.



Love & Light

Peace, Balance, Harmony

 

[kewl]

you can hypothesize and experiment within a spiritual framework - just dont let your scept. narrow your hypothesis or cloud accurate assesment of the results

 

[psychoblast]

LAO TZU:

Thanks for your response, but I don't see any defense of Reiki in it. I guess I have a problem with your seeming assumption that because logic and a scientific perspective seems to have led people away from recognizing the truth of, say, universal oneness, that it inherently is opposed to such recognition. That is inductive reasoning.

As an example, for a long time I was a conventional atheist, accepting that there was no afterlife, no spiritual world beyond our individual, physical existences in the absence of some logical basis for it. But rather than keeping me separate from it, I found what (to me) was an approach through logic to spirituality, my bread / pan analogy.

To restate it, we look at a loaf of bread and all of its characteristics are reflections of what created it. It's shape is a reflection of the shape of the pan in which it was baked. It's consistency and flavor are reflections of the ingredients that combined to make it. In short, it seems impossible for the bread to have ANY characteristic that are not reflections of the forces that created it.

Now, applying that to humans, I first perceived that our own drives -- the drive to attract and to expand -- are reflections of characteristics that exist in nonliving matter (the "pan" that baked the "bread" of life), such as gravity transforming to the human urge to be attractive, to have relationships with others.

It then occured to me that our consciousness itself is a characteristic that, if my logic is valid, must be a reflection of something that preceded our existence, a reflection of something existing in the forces that molded our existence. This led me to believe that the most logical and rational view is that there is a consciousness existing outside of humans or life. That the universe must have started with a form of consciouness that we, as creations of the universe, reflect. In considering this, my current working hypothesis is that the universe itself as a whole is a consciousness and, rather than being a separate consciousness from us, we are fragments of that consciousness and, in fact, that consciousness is the sum of the consciousness of all the separate fragments.

And studying some quantum mechanics, on how subatomic particles seem to randomly move, and given the counterintuitivenss of such randomness, I think it fits with my theory to see all particles as having bits of will, or consciousness, within them, albeit at much lower levels. The more particles that come together for a common purpose, and pool their wills, the higher the consciousness that can be recognized. So humans are relatively high on this path, compared to say a hydrogen atom. But when humans come together to work for a common purpose, on a level we do not necessarily recognize, we have formed a larger consciousness of which we are only a part. In this sense, I think communities, nations, even corporations may have a real sense of consciousness that we are blind to even though we are part of it, much like a cell in our bodies may be blind to our own consciousness to which it is contributing.

I don't know if anyone has ever so reconciled logic and spirituality. But, then, in retrospect I can see how most spiritually-minded people have always claimed such reconciliation was impossible, that to embrace spirituality, you must let go of logic and reason. And I think those people were wrong. Just because that is the path they took does not mean it is the only path. Those people seem to be, themselves, arbitrarily limiting the paths to spirituality, or presuming that it is inconsistent with logic and reason merely because the two had not YET been reconciled. Perhaps the world is just waiting for some one to come up with a new perspective that reconciles the two.

Even though I consider myself to be a fragment of a universal consciousness, even though I believe my memories are the memories of the universe and will live on after I die, merging my ego (the product of those experiences) with the rest of the universal consciousness (and thus disappating my ego in a way that I would imagine feels more like waking up from a dream than, say, dying), and even though I believe the greatest peace on earth and highest self-actualization can be found from finding a path to permanently embrace and perceive myself as part of this universal whole rather than as an independent entity (i.e., submerging my ego BEFORE death)...well, none of that means that I think I should go around buying into EVER new age (or old age) theory of holistic healing, knowing that many such things have been shown to be scams and snake oil type things.

If Reiki has some power to physically affect the world, it seems to me to be arbitrary and close-minded to say, "But it is certain this power can never be reconciled with logic or science and, in fact, seeking to understand this power from a logical perspective will forever blind you to it."

Perhaps you are correct. Perhaps it DOES blind me to it. Perhaps someday I will let go of logic and reason and then see what you are talking about and recognize its indisputable truth on some gut level. And then come back on here and post, "Oh, I was wrong, logic and reason do necessarily side-track you from enlightenment." But I just don't see how you can be so sure of that just because you have come to a (presumably) enlightened state of mind without following a path of logic and reason.

Anyway, I was hoping for a more basic, nuts & bolts answer regarding Reiki and whether it has ever been studied, debunked, etc. I mean, I don't even know if people claim Reiki can heal physical ailments, or whether it solely boosts your sense of chi (or whatever you want to call it). If the latter, then I guess the issue of it being snake oil is moot since it is not seeking to supplant the field of medicine. I just don't know. Perhaps you can explain to me what benefits are supposedly obtained from Reiki?

~psychoblast~

 

[rewiiired]

I have said to you on more than one occasion here, in this forum, that science is an inherently closed system, as is 'religion' - until you can attain to the realization of that understanding you will never find that which you seek, you must let-go - let-go of that part of you which relies on proof and evidence, or you will remain lost to the greater truth of life itself.

Oh, Mister Tzu,
I am so confused.
What then is the standard
for the truth?
Is not one totally lost
to what's true and false
if one does not attempt to discern them
through `faith' or `logic' at all?

 

[kewl]

pb - i had a friend recommend that i see an specific accupuncturist that specialized in changing perspective through the application of accupuncture in what he termed a technique called energetics.

i was skeptical so i formed an experiment - i would go to him 2 times - the first time we would discuss nothing and he would do his thing and the second time i would ask him what he did the first time and how i would have expected it to affect me - both perceptually and physically through the week.

it was a successful experiment.

tho' not reiki - it is in a similar vein

 

[Tr6ai0ls4]

PB,

To address the issue of reiki practicioners requiring money in order to heal. From what I understand, that issue has to do with karma more then anything. I think that one of the precepts of reiki is that there must be some kind of karmaic balance in order for a reiki session to be most effective. Basically, it is considered wrong to get something for nothing if that makes any sense. It does not have to be money, but one of the precepts of reiki is that there must be some sort of exchange to preserve the karmaic balance right off the bat. I believe the other precept is that the person who recieves the healing must ask for it in some way shape or form.

You say, " .... if you are deficient in Vitamin B-12, you are deficient. I don't see this chi as a way to transfer Vitamin B-12 to a sick person." and this may be true. However, I vaguely recall reading somewhere that the way reiki functions is that you wouldn't even need to transfer the B-12 at all. The person who recieves the healing wouldn't gain B-12 but would still be healed to some degree, even if it is only temporary. I think I also read that a professional reiki practioncioner could go without food for extended periods of time, or even indefinitely and still remain healthy.

I know it sounds quite unreasonable, but I have tried it and it does work on some level. After perform a reiki healing on myself, I would notice that even if it doesn't take effect immediately there is definitely some sort of effect that occurs within minutes. I have been able to alleviate headaches from myself and others, take away emotional stress and influence a general state of well-being in myself and/or others, relieve pain from a slight burn or bruise even if the bruise doesn't just magically disappear, I think that it might have healed faster then it would have, but I do not deny that it may have just been power of suggestion.

I do not know the limits of the reiki systems, and I do not know whether it is just a good catalyst for an effect that results from power of suggestion or a mystical force of the universe. All I know is that, at certain times, I have been able to use it for my benefit, and it did work.

I hope this feedback was of some use to you....

Also, I have a document with a lot of information on this system of healing that is available to anybody who wants it. If you want it, just PM with your e-mail address, and I'll send it to you.

- Tr6

 

[Haywire]

Lao Tzu wrote: [to PB] "Your [sic] attempting to open up here, and yet, you still fall back on your safety net of 'proof' and 'science' "

that's red flag to me. the red flag of a cult-like system. they all start out by having you doubt your own judgment and reason. this statement by Tzu seems to be along that same line.

of course, i know nothing about the subject at hand. but i recall reading on of PB's older posts about cults that recognizes this

 

[dimmo]

I don't know much about reiki, but I am experienced with internal energy (Qigong in particular for some 5 years). I would like to note however, that Qigong at lower levels isn't religious, but is at higher levels. I however, take my own interpretation to it, and that is the energy that goes through out bodies or in the universe is from God

Tr6ai0ls4, one thing I am worried about in this field are novices who attempt to do things such as healing.

You really do need a solid foundation of qi exercises, as well as emitting qi; protecting yourself during the healing from negative energy. I have heard of the healer getting sick as well. You need to have a strong energy base, and the qualtity of the qi needs to be high.

'Well, I'm still not sure how it could "heal" anything. I mean, if you are deficient in Vitamin B-12, you are deficient. I don't see this chi as a way to transfer Vitamin B-12 to a sick person.'

Well basically, sickness occurs when one of the twelve meridians are blocked. Acupuncture unblocks the meridian with needles, so you could consider Qigong (which I am familar with) and Reiki as 'self acupuncture'. A master of an internal art would use their energy, emit it into you through a qi massage or even without touching, to help unblock the meridian. After the healing, you should really do qi exercises to help your progress. The master can only take you so far.

Qigong uses your mind and body movement (for beginners) to circulate your qi through the meridians, and gather and store qi for your body to draw upon. Keep in mind, this is a long process, and quite an intensive one. If you do 15minutes per day of internal exercises, that's better than none right? But it certainly isn't enough. Sex also needs to be restricted, as everytime a man orgasms he loses some of his qi - and really shouldnt practice qigong/internal arts 24 hours before and after sex. At higher levels, the practitioner will orgasm, but does not release the semen, instead he moves it to his brain. Someone who has a western 'healthy sex life' will never progress in the internal arts.

BUT, I must say, after you have been practicing for some time, you are so in control of yourself that there is no 'conflict of urges' in regards to sex. That's the power of meditation for you

If you're sick and you decide to start reiki, it could take some time to see an improvement, you may very well need the vitamin b12 straight away I've found that after doing qigong for some time, i've become more health conscious anyway and am drawn to foods which don't disrupt the qi levels, such as fatty foods

Just like going to the gym, it could take 3 months before you really start to see significant improvements (physical energy levels/bloodpressure/stress levels whatever..). Qigong/internal arts really should be practiced everyday, or at least six times a week, for the rest of your life. People who practice on and off are kind of wasting their time.

AND YES, there are rip offs in all markets these days. There's a shitload of qigong websites selling videos/books over the net on how to do this or that; it's quite disturbing. Some techniques, if practiced incorrectly CAN be damaging to your health.

 

[Void]

Re: Re: Reiki

I have said to you on more than one occasion here, in this forum, that science is an inherently closed system, as is 'religion' - until you can attain to the realization of that understanding you will never find that which you seek, you must let-go - let-go of that part of you which relies on proof and evidence, or you will remain lost to the greater truth of life itself.

I dont fully agree, or to put it another way, I see it as simply knowing that no one world view or philosophy holds all the answers or is perfectly complete. Well, apart from God, but he is not currently taking interviews. So you simply need to accept truths in the contexts they are meant to be taken in, and realise that they are as flawed as you are. For now anyway Though this isnt about growing a more complex belief system but simply opening yours up, seeing it for what it is, and not being as attached to it. If your belief system is totally closed then it can filter out the stuff you dont want or cannot deal with, and vice versa.


On the topic of reiki, I've gotten into it. There are hundreds if not thousands of various systems, and you can get attuned to some for free via the net. I've even given out free attunments myself. Seems real to me and its a good way of developing some awarness. Anyway, not all require money, and you dont need money to gain healing. There are free healing offers you can sign up for on the net to get. Dont know if its all placibo, but isnt a placibo something that works? Anyway, it is good to learn like protection and the basics of energy work if your going to try it, but we all learn at our own pace and with our own mistakes. I am not experienced in chi but from what I know its an internal life force. While reiki is a healing energy that you get attuned to and that you are a type of conduct for, it flows through you into something along your intention/focus. Can be used for people, pets, objects, flowers etc. Even heard someone claim they fixed their car with it, and not sure how the placibo theory fits into that if its true. Havent tried it myself though. Though its great to use in lucid dreams.

On the question of the b12. well, reiki would work at a different level to modern medicine if such things exist, so logically, a problem like b12 deficite would most likely have some other explination on the energy body level. Though you do not need the explination to use reiki. You send the energy and it works as its needed. Thought perhaps I am avoiding the issue. Well, you know, more things in the universe horatio then in our philosophy. Or something like that anyway.

 

[The HiVe MiND]

I think that it might have healed faster then it would have, but I do not deny that it may have just been power of suggestion.

I suggest reiki

 

[threelibras99]

~Reiki~

BUMPITY BUMP BUMMPPPP
This thread is pretty old, so I'm looking for some fresh insight :D

Okay guys.....I think that Reiki might possibly be the coolest thing I've heard about in a long time. I'm going to attend a class for level 1 in November, and I just wanted to know if anyone here has experienced this before?

Lemme know what you think about Reiki!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reiki

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

Be sure to tell us how your class went, threelibras99! I know practically nothing about Reiki, and this thread has made me curious.

That said, I feel I need to slap my Surgeon General's Warning on this thread, which I've expressed many times: Buying spiritual services = giant red flag.

If you're taking this class for self-enrichment or to learn a skill that will help you heal and bond with family and friends, by all means. However, I really hope you're not learning Reiki so as to have a marketable skill; I'd have some serious ethical issues with that.

I'd gladly give a DONATION to anyone who offered me a spiritually enriching service of some sort to show my gratitude, especially if I knew the person was not worldly or money minded, and could really use the money to survive. But I'd balk at anyone who CHARGED me for an audience, a blessing, a channeling session, etc.

True spiritual guidance is given freely from the goodness of the giver's heart, no strings attached. True givers survive on the goodwill of the people they serve, not a salary for services rendered.

P.S.: I wish psychoblast was still around -- his worldview is so much like mine it's scary.

 

[threelibras99]

Totally getting into Reiki so that I'll be able to learn and grow as a human being. Once I heard about it, it just hit me all at once that this is totally for me. I'm so interested in it and think it's really neat.

I agree with you about the whole money thing. I have to pay $175 for level one. Level 2 is like, $500 I believe. And get this....to become a master it's $10,000. I don't like how expensive it is, and I'm only going as far as level one, but damn...10k?!!? That's just ridiculous!

I would never charge anyone to heal them. I don't need money for that, just the satisfaction of being able to help someone out is good enough for me.

 

[threelibras99]

Hey

I had my first Reiki class today, and it was absolutely amazing! I suggest everyone look into it. I feel so vibrant inside . I don't feel empty anymore, and my spirits have definitely lifted after today's session. I go again tomorrow, to get two more atonements. I think everyone would benefit from taking a Reiki class. I am so happy

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

Excellent! Glad to hear you're digging reiki.

If you have a spare moment, could you be bothered to give us noobs a quick overview of the techniques you learned, and exactly what each step felt like? Definitely tell us more!

 

[dbailey11]

My aunt's husband swears that his friend, who is a reiki 'master', healed some longstanding pain in his leg. He is the farthest thing from a flakey new agey guy. In fact he is really level haed, rational, and science minded. He doesn't have any claim as to how or why it worked (in one treatment, for free at that) but could care less whether it was placebo or otherwise (and noone should discount the placebo effect).

My personal experience with was in massage school. My teacher did a session on me and I just feel asleep, oh well. I don't know one way or the other. I really think it depends on the person giving the treatment actually.

 

[threelibras99]

Excellent! Glad to hear you're digging reiki.

If you have a spare moment, could you be bothered to give us noobs a quick overview of the techniques you learned, and exactly what each step felt like? Definitely tell us more!

Sure thang. My Reiki master's name was Chris Rosenthal. For anyone who lives in the US, you should check out her site http://www.chrisrosenthal.com/.

There were only 7 of us in the class. When we first got there, all of us stood in a circle and held hands. Then, she took us two at a time in a back room. We closed our eyes, and held our hands in prayer position while she did this "attunement." Each attunement last only a couple minutes
and you get 4 all together in level 1. After everyone was done, we all stood in a circle again, and the energy was a lot different....Everyone's hands were much warmer than before.

Then Chris was just telling us stories about her past experiences with Reiki. She's had some spontaneous reactions with it. This one lady had cancer all through her left leg, and Chris gave her a few Reiki sessions on her leg. When the woman went back for x-rays or w/e, they couldn't find a trace of cancer in her leg!

Basically, once you get your attunements, your body now acts as a conveyor for the Universal Life Force Energy. The energy moves through your head, and out through your palms. If you have a headache, a bruise, a scratch, a broken bone, disease, anything.......all you have to do it put your hands over the area that it bothering you. It helps you on a psychical, mental and emotional level. You can practice on yourself or on others. It's amazing, because you can literally feel the energy flowing through your body when you do it yourself, or when others do it to you. You can work on animals as well. Also, you can only create good energy...you can't send bad energy to hurt anyone.

In level 2, you receive more attunements and are taught how to use Reiki on someone who could be in a completely different country than you. In level 1, you have to be next to the person to have your hands no more than an inch over the hurting area. Level 1 is very complete, though. Basically, you don't need level 2 in order to have Reiki.

Currently, I'm using Reiki to work on my anxiety. I've already noticed a huge difference and it's only been a day! It really does work

 

[dbailey11]

Why is it that most if not all reiki 'masters' are women? Men can't work with chi?

 

[threelibras99]

Well there are many male Masters out there. In fact, the master that taught mine was male.