I know I've got another thread about this so sorry, but this is upsetting me.
I mean, I AM high at the moment, so it is still working, but I needed to take 14 grams when 2 weeks ago 3.5 grams was doing it for me.
I know kindling occurs, but is it really possible for a person, or likely, to PERMANENTLY destroy their Kratom tolerance to the point where it can become nearly useless?
As I said in my other thread, I used to use way too much Kratom, then stopped for a year, then used for a year, and my tolerance went up slowly...started at 2.5 grams a dose and it took a full year for my doses to get to 11.25 when I stopped.
Then I stopped for 6 months and while I am using inferior product this time, which probably has something to do with it, in ONE MONTH I've gone from 2.5 grams a dose to needing 14 grams.
I just don't want to believe that there's nothing I can do and that I have permanently ruined Kratom for myself.
Do you guys think this is really the case?
These are some comments from Reddit posters:
One guy: "Don’t know if anyone’s mentioned the term specifically, but many have gotten to it in a roundabout way; it’s called kindling. When you use a drug and activate the receptors associated with its use, you’re building a pathway your brain becomes more familiar with as use continues. It won’t forget this pathway. Every return to use after even long breaks will see your body returning to homeostasis sooner and sooner. Homeostasis is essentially you losing your effects because your body/psyche have become normalized to the effects of a substance.
I have been addicted in one form or another to many drugs. Opioids, benzos, cannabinoids, stimulants; and after every experience of sobriety and return to active use, I notice a shorter and shorter window of “good” effects, and quicker and quicker return of “bad” effects. Psychosis with stimulants, rebound anxiety/withdrawal type feelings after one use with benzos, withdrawal feelings after one use of mu agonists (kratom included.)
Not everybody does this to themselves. It usually takes a lot of years and a lot of hard use. But once you get to this stage, I don’t know that it’s reversible. I do think it’s a matter of degree, as with most things. But having talked to a lot of other people that have gone hard, it seems like a pretty common phenomena."
Another guy: "Its proven these receptors work differently after each time you stop and start up again. That's why I stopped because it stopped working and started creating more problems than it was solving. At the end I went from 18 grams to 35 grams in one month and then I was like okay this is getting out of control."
Another guy: "This is, in fact, a well known phenomenon—repeated exposure to many drugs will, over time, increase the pace at which you gain tolerance, regardless of the length of any breaks taken. As regards your current relationship with kratom: Once you take another break to allow your tolerance to drop, you’ll need to commit to using kratom infrequently if you wish to maintain a low tolerance. Your only other option is to use low dose naltrexone nightly, which will very effectively keep your tolerance from increasing."
Another: "I think what you’re referring to here is what’s known as ‘the kindling effect’. As you know, if you’ve been using something for a long time, say an opiate, your body obviously becomes tolerant to it. If you then continue to use and push up the dose to match the tolerance, your body responds accordingly. Now let’s say this discourages you and you take a few months off completely. When you return, your tolerance will increase back to where it was much more quickly than the first time round (think muscle memory). You’ll also find that you’ll need much less time to become addicted and suffer WD again.
I used to use opium (thank you krat for keeping me off). I got addicted to the opium and my tolerance went through the roof. Later, I took some months off. I returned to using for about 3 days. The third day was enough to skyrocket my tolerance back to where it was and to get intense withdrawal after.
“Resetting” tolerance to opiates is somewhat of a myth unless you’re messing with the tolerance mechanism of action with proglumide, naltrexone and NMDA antagonists."
So, all these people are basically saying that it is possible and common to permanently ruin your Kratom tolerance, and I just don't want to believe it.
I've used plenty of other substances in my life, from Klonopin to Dexadrine/Adderall, to weed to Phenibut to booze etc, and this kind of thing has NEVER happened before.
Do you guys think they are right?
Do you think it is really likely that I've ruined my Kratom tolerance for life and there's nothing I can do about it?
I mean, I AM high at the moment, so it is still working, but I needed to take 14 grams when 2 weeks ago 3.5 grams was doing it for me.
I know kindling occurs, but is it really possible for a person, or likely, to PERMANENTLY destroy their Kratom tolerance to the point where it can become nearly useless?
As I said in my other thread, I used to use way too much Kratom, then stopped for a year, then used for a year, and my tolerance went up slowly...started at 2.5 grams a dose and it took a full year for my doses to get to 11.25 when I stopped.
Then I stopped for 6 months and while I am using inferior product this time, which probably has something to do with it, in ONE MONTH I've gone from 2.5 grams a dose to needing 14 grams.
I just don't want to believe that there's nothing I can do and that I have permanently ruined Kratom for myself.
Do you guys think this is really the case?
These are some comments from Reddit posters:
One guy: "Don’t know if anyone’s mentioned the term specifically, but many have gotten to it in a roundabout way; it’s called kindling. When you use a drug and activate the receptors associated with its use, you’re building a pathway your brain becomes more familiar with as use continues. It won’t forget this pathway. Every return to use after even long breaks will see your body returning to homeostasis sooner and sooner. Homeostasis is essentially you losing your effects because your body/psyche have become normalized to the effects of a substance.
I have been addicted in one form or another to many drugs. Opioids, benzos, cannabinoids, stimulants; and after every experience of sobriety and return to active use, I notice a shorter and shorter window of “good” effects, and quicker and quicker return of “bad” effects. Psychosis with stimulants, rebound anxiety/withdrawal type feelings after one use with benzos, withdrawal feelings after one use of mu agonists (kratom included.)
Not everybody does this to themselves. It usually takes a lot of years and a lot of hard use. But once you get to this stage, I don’t know that it’s reversible. I do think it’s a matter of degree, as with most things. But having talked to a lot of other people that have gone hard, it seems like a pretty common phenomena."
Another guy: "Its proven these receptors work differently after each time you stop and start up again. That's why I stopped because it stopped working and started creating more problems than it was solving. At the end I went from 18 grams to 35 grams in one month and then I was like okay this is getting out of control."
Another guy: "This is, in fact, a well known phenomenon—repeated exposure to many drugs will, over time, increase the pace at which you gain tolerance, regardless of the length of any breaks taken. As regards your current relationship with kratom: Once you take another break to allow your tolerance to drop, you’ll need to commit to using kratom infrequently if you wish to maintain a low tolerance. Your only other option is to use low dose naltrexone nightly, which will very effectively keep your tolerance from increasing."
Another: "I think what you’re referring to here is what’s known as ‘the kindling effect’. As you know, if you’ve been using something for a long time, say an opiate, your body obviously becomes tolerant to it. If you then continue to use and push up the dose to match the tolerance, your body responds accordingly. Now let’s say this discourages you and you take a few months off completely. When you return, your tolerance will increase back to where it was much more quickly than the first time round (think muscle memory). You’ll also find that you’ll need much less time to become addicted and suffer WD again.
I used to use opium (thank you krat for keeping me off). I got addicted to the opium and my tolerance went through the roof. Later, I took some months off. I returned to using for about 3 days. The third day was enough to skyrocket my tolerance back to where it was and to get intense withdrawal after.
“Resetting” tolerance to opiates is somewhat of a myth unless you’re messing with the tolerance mechanism of action with proglumide, naltrexone and NMDA antagonists."
So, all these people are basically saying that it is possible and common to permanently ruin your Kratom tolerance, and I just don't want to believe it.
I've used plenty of other substances in my life, from Klonopin to Dexadrine/Adderall, to weed to Phenibut to booze etc, and this kind of thing has NEVER happened before.
Do you guys think they are right?
Do you think it is really likely that I've ruined my Kratom tolerance for life and there's nothing I can do about it?
