Raw Foodism

[voxmystic]

It's angry ppl that accomplish changes! Not silly and happy 'cows'.

Raw oxen meat from ecological farming is the only meat, not pig!

anger is poison. it feels horrible, and it kills people. "happy cow" may be a bit extreme, but at least happy cows aren't having stress-induced aneurisms and perpetrating violence.

no farmed meat will ever match or beat wild meat. venison, elk, moose, etc. hunting, dressing, and butchering also brings one into a more full awareness of one's place in the great circle.

sorry for waxing spiritual, but it does and should come into play.

 

[craigyt2k]

Juicing kinda sucks. Why concentrate all the sugars and leave out the fiber?

save on the chewing, good juicer recomended,,

Vitamin B is in some fruit and veg, higher concentrations are in Seeds and grains, im using hemp, poppy seeds, and whole oats..

greens are good source of vit b and also nuts, so basically no need to supplement

 

[Apostacious]

I ate a raw vegan diet for 17 months. I did not supplement it with anything. There are a couple reasons I switched diets; one is because it is a bit expensive to live on organic fruits, veggies, seeds, nuts and seaweed. There are two nutrients of importance that people seem to mistake as not being a part of a raw vegan diet.

Iodine is a nutrient found in seaweed (nori rolls ftw). Also, you can get a weeks supply of vitamin D by being out in the sun (with some skin exposed) for an hour. This may be difficult to do in the winter further north and south of the equator, so, just alternate skin exposure every couple minutes to avoid discomfort. If it is far too cold to do this, then supplement. Vitamin b-12, however, is another issue altogether. Yes, you may find it in the dirt. Additionally, you can find it with some yeasts (strictly, this is not a vegan product however, if that matters to you). However, it is impossible to predict whether you are getting enough b-12 until you show symptoms of b-12 deficiency. So, it doesn't hurt to just take a b-12 supplement.

I found the diet to eventually be bland, cold, and depressing during the winter months. I find it is a diet that is best done part-time. Maybe have 1-2 raw vegan meals (out of 3-5) a day. After many months, the process of eating (for me) simply became boring. It was like eating was simply ingesting sustenance instead of being one of the simple joys of life. Therefore, I went back to my old ways of eating omnivorously.

 

[Coolio]

save on the chewing

Saving on chewing is a bad thing. Chewing is necessary to induce salivary enzyme production in your mouth. Salivary enzymes are an important part of the digestion process. The slower you eat your food, and the more you chew, the healthier that food is going to be for you.

 

[Coolio]

Also, you can get a weeks supply of vitamin D by being out in the sun (with some skin exposed) for an hour. This may be difficult to do in the winter further north and south of the equator, so, just alternate skin exposure every couple minutes to avoid discomfort.

You're misinformed about this one. You can MAYBE get a full day's worth of Vitamin D by FULL BODY exposure to the sun for an hour, only during July and August if you live north of Virginia. Going outside with a shirt and pants on does little to nothing for you. The rest of the year, for northerners, no amount of sunlight provides any Vitamin D. For those near the equator, you still need full body exposure sometime around noon/early afternoon to get appreciable UVB rays for cholesterol->VitaminD conversion, but you can get it most or all of the year. During winter in most of the world, you can sunbathe all you want and it won't do anything good for you.

The "recommended daily allowance" of Vitamin D in the diet recommended by the USDA is at least 10 times too little in many doctors' opinions.

 

[Mehm]

Juicing kinda sucks. Why concentrate all the sugars and leave out the fiber?

As far as fruit juice goes, I kind of agree with you. However, fruit juice is delicious and a pretty healthy alternative to soda or candy. Where juicing really comes into play is the extraction of nutrients out of bulky roots and leafs. For example, kale and carrots are both great in themselves, but you don't really want to sit down and and eat a pound of each...way to bulky. You can however juice a pound of each and easily drink it. While you are missing the fiber (maybe eat some of the pulp) you are getting all of the nutrients, phytochemicals/anti-oxidants, sugar and water.

The pulp is excellent feed for a compost pit or worm bin and shouldn't be regarded as "wasted".

 

[Apostacious]

As far as fruit juice goes, I kind of agree with you. However, fruit juice is delicious and a pretty healthy alternative to soda or candy. Where juicing really comes into play is the extraction of nutrients out of bulky roots and leafs. For example, kale and carrots are both great in themselves, but you don't really want to sit down and and eat a pound of each...way to bulky. You can however juice a pound of each and easily drink it. While you are missing the fiber (maybe eat some of the pulp) you are getting all of the nutrients, phytochemicals/anti-oxidants, sugar and water.

The pulp is excellent feed for a compost pit or worm bin and shouldn't be regarded as "wasted".

Additionally, too much fiber in one's diet may inhibit absorption of nutrients. A raw vegan diet has an over-abundance of fiber such that more concentrated caloric foodstuff is needed like agave nectar, nuts, fruit/veggie juices, etc. Further, too much fiber can negatively impact desired caloric intake. This is because cellulose isn't broken down into anything useful in humans.

 

[Mehm]

This is because cellulose isn't broken down into anything useful in humans.

I read in a book about diet and cancer that some cellulose is digested by bacteria in the intestines. One by product is salic (I'm spelling this wrong) acid, which is a very potent anti-oxidant. food for thought...

 

[sdripper]

Additionally, too much fiber in one's diet may inhibit absorption of nutrients. A raw vegan diet has an over-abundance of fiber such that more concentrated caloric foodstuff is needed like agave nectar, nuts, fruit/veggie juices, etc. Further, too much fiber can negatively impact desired caloric intake. This is because cellulose isn't broken down into anything useful in humans.

I recall reading that today we eat many times less fiber than our previous hundreds of thousands of years of living, and it is a bad situation, not a good thing.

I can't see how this could be wrong, because besides animals, there was nothing to eat but nuts, fruits, plants, vegetables. Raw food.

it is impossible to have an "over-abundance of fiber" in your diet, and I definitely would think that having real fiberous raw plants in your guts has any relavent negative impact on the nutrient absorption, at least not enough that it matters whatsoever.

And no I'm not talking about pounding down metamucil and fiber pills and crap, that stuff IS bad news I'm sure of it, I actually even remember reading about Psyllium Husk being widely used nowadays and that it is bad news stuff.

Raw organic food all the way

 

[Papaverace]

anger is poison. it feels horrible, and it kills people. "happy cow" may be a bit extreme, but at least happy cows aren't having stress-induced aneurisms and perpetrating violence.

no farmed meat will ever match or beat wild meat. venison, elk, moose, etc. hunting, dressing, and butchering also brings one into a more full awareness of one's place in the great circle.

sorry for waxing spiritual, but it does and should come into play.

I don't mean constant anger, but it's not the cow-happy spiritual ppl that protest against things that have to change. You leave that to others, believe me, I have seen this since 1983.

Of course wild animals are better! But in my country it's hard to find it, otherwise I'll take that any day.

As for you who spoke of urine therapy. Ouch! Look at nature, the wild animals do it right. Wild animals do not ever drink their urine nor do they eat their poo if they aren't in captivity and getting the wrong food.

I have been on-off Raw for decades, but would never dream of leaving vitamins and raw animal stuff out of it...The most fantastic things is that the more you it eat it, the less dependent on drugs.

 

[voxmystic]

You leave that to others.

nope. not me. i get angry and protest, but nobody cares; then i feel weak and ineffectual. it feels awful, and i wish i could just be a happy cow. then at least i'd be happy. i'm never going to change anything, anyway.

Of course wild animals are better! But in my country it's hard to find it, otherwise I'll take that any day.

what country? i'm spoiled up here in alaska, i know, but i wasn't born here. i had to move here.

 

[Coolio]

A raw vegan diet has an over-abundance of fiber such that more concentrated caloric foodstuff is needed like agave nectar, nuts, fruit/veggie juices, etc.

Uh. That's not true at all. Agave nectar is not good for you or needed at all, it's just like corn syrup with a little soluble fiber in it. It just helps give you insulin spikes. And there's no such thing as an over-abudance of fiber; the more you eat the better.

 

[Apostacious]

Uh. That's not true at all. Agave nectar is not good for you or needed at all, it's just like corn syrup with a little soluble fiber in it. It just helps give you insulin spikes. And there's no such thing as an over-abudance of fiber; the more you eat the better.

A raw vegan diet can have an over-abundance of fiber in it. Here are some sources that back-up my point, that large amounts of fiber can inhibit absorption of nutrients, and thus lead to an over-abundance of fiber, requiring juicing, and other forms of concentrated nutrients:

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en...V9nrxYFCOacMzQ91ontefGy7I#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en...V9nrxYFCOacMzQ91ontefGy7I#v=onepage&q&f=false

Albeit, yes, fiber does not inhibit absorption of glucose or lipids, too much of it can inhibit absorption of nutrients, which is why juicing is important. If one is already on a raw vegan diet, more bulk isn't necessarily needed to expel food, because adequate amounts of fiber are consumed with every piece of food available on said diet. I suggested agave nectar, because it is still a negligible food to eat when one is on an already low-carbohydrate diet (as long as one isn't a fruitarian). A raw vegan diet usually doesn't include starches. So, the insulin spike from a tablespoon of agave nectar added to a bowl of juiced carrot soup with blended coconut water and meats is limited at best.

 

[Papaverace]

nope. not me. i get angry and protest, but nobody cares; then i feel weak and ineffectual. it feels awful, and i wish i could just be a happy cow. then at least i'd be happy. i'm never going to change anything, anyway.



what country? i'm spoiled up here in alaska, i know, but i wasn't born here. i had to move here.

Oh we have elks and deer here allright, but then you must get to know the hunters, and those animals can only be hunted here a few weeks every year. Please don't be pessimistic, I have given up on Rawfoodists here, but ordinary ppl ARE worried of the awful poisons raining over us. I started this way:

"Do you know that

1.Alzheimers
2. Parkinson
3. ADHD and ADD
4. Autism
5. Allergies
6. Diabetes
7. Obesity

and many other diseases have absolutely exploded since 1970-80?"

Tinnitus is worst with 40.000% or more but the other ones are between 300-15000% increase. Yes of course Alzheimers is 'because we are older' (how then explain that 1970 of the 85year olds, hardly 5% suffered from dementia, while in 1990 the number was 25%. Isn't 85year olds always 85?).

"ADHD kids were called 'lively' in the old days". BS. Ask any teacher who has been teaching for more than 20 years.

And so on. In fact in US, many of the super scientific brains are worried, blaming this on the awful chemical explosion. Not even diabetes and obesity can be explained as only bad eating habits, we ate much sugar and white bread all the time before 1980, in fact there were few muslis and raw veggies back then...

Sorry, this is offtopic, but one must stick together with other people, if everyone started to think for themselves, we would discover that moneygrabbing industries are prepared to walk over dead bodies to increase their profit. We must take advantage of Internet, and that we are living in democracies. That's why I find it so depressing that Rawfoodists seem to be interested in their own wellbeing only...%)

 

[Apostacious]

Oh we have elks and deer here allright, but then you must get to know the hunters, and those animals can only be hunted here a few weeks every year. Please don't be pessimistic, I have given up on Rawfoodists here, but ordinary ppl ARE worried of the awful poisons raining over us. I started this way:

"Do you know that

1.Alzheimers
2. Parkinson
3. ADHD and ADD
4. Autism
5. Allergies
6. Diabetes
7. Obesity

and many other diseases have absolutely exploded since 1970-80?"

Tinnitus is worst with 40.000% or more but the other ones are between 300-15000% increase. Yes of course Alzheimers is 'because we are older' (how then explain that 1970 of the 85year olds, hardly 5% suffered from dementia, while in 1990 the number was 25%. Isn't 85year olds always 85?).

"ADHD kids were called 'lively' in the old days". BS. Ask any teacher who has been teaching for more than 20 years.

And so on. In fact in US, many of the super scientific brains are worried, blaming this on the awful chemical explosion. Not even diabetes and obesity can be explained as only bad eating habits, we ate much sugar and white bread all the time before 1980, in fact there were few muslis and raw veggies back then...

Sorry, this is offtopic, but one must stick together with other people, if everyone started to think for themselves, we would discover that moneygrabbing industries are prepared to walk over dead bodies to increase their profit. We must take advantage of Internet, and that we are living in democracies. That's why I find it so depressing that Rawfoodists seem to be interested in their own wellbeing only...%)

Your argument would be more believable if you had sources to back up statistics. Otherwise, you just sound like a nutter (no offense, but I'm sure that's what most think). I am not saying I disagree with what you are saying... just that throwing unverified statistics around like they speak for themselves can actually do more harm for the argument than good.

 

[voxmystic]

^even a viable source won't make anyone hear what they don't like. papaverace speaks truth.

 

[Changed]

this thread quickly took a nose-dive into Shitsville. I don't care for the debates on animal feelings, etc... I'm not a lunatic, back to the earth, tree-hugging hippie: I just want to eat healthy, plain and simple.

Here is what I've come up with so far:

-I have 2 year-round farmer's markets (+several summer/fall ones) in the city I'll be moving to. I'll ask how I can get produce in bulk to save money.
-I'll need to eat slightly more calories in order to maintain my weight. (doesn't seem to make sense...)
-I'll eat approximately 10% protein, 20% fat, 70% carbs
-I can't afford a dehydrator or a (fancy) blender, so I'll be eating mostly 'peel and swallow'. I have an average blender that I can do things with.
-I don't look at food as comfort or a way to indulge, so I don't care if it is boring or doesn't make me happy. I put food into my body so that I can keep moving.

• I'd still like to know whether I can expect to maintain or improve my physique while weight-lifting/swimming/biking/running/rock climbing/etc...? All the sugar and carbs are making me afraid that I'll just become skinnier but 'soft'...
• Does eating raw hinder (or perhaps help) your social life?

 

[Papaverace]

Your argument would be more believable if you had sources to back up statistics. Otherwise, you just sound like a nutter (no offense, but I'm sure that's what most think). I am not saying I disagree with what you are saying... just that throwing unverified statistics around like they speak for themselves can actually do more harm for the argument than good.

All my information has come from the Internet, but what good would it do if I gave you 45 references? Would that prove anything? If you can't figure it out for yourself, then frankly...

I've asked professional MDs about this, and some says it must be an explosion as all statistics point this way. But the majority deny this. I asked one professor, yes he couldn't deny the figures, but 'I suppose ppl didn't notice'. Please! Didn't notice dementia? The most obvious diagnosis there is. And apparently they suddenly started to notice it around 1970 then. How fortunate that all nurses working with old ppl, having been morons before, suddenly got skilled after 1970.

But surely YOU must be aware of that ADHD and Autism has multiplied out of all proportion? That is certainly NO secret! New figures point to a further 60-100% increase in the last decade in New York and California. And recently a very big study came out of US, that could couple the severity of symtoms in ADHD kids, with the content of insects poisons in their blood. Most intelligent ppl immediately says that they remember that the kids were NOT this way (and that old ppl most certainly weren't as demented as now), or if they are younger they can ask their parents or a teacher. As for the statistic of 85year olds, that is certainly no secret, all countries in the west has that kind of statistics.

In New Mexico if I recall it correctly, the nonvascular dementia increased with 750% from 1968-1979 but admittedly it wasn't only the '85years old' but all old people. However, you must have heard that dementia goes further and further downwards in the ages, so that plenty of 50year olds has it by now. How do you explain that with us 'being older'? In New Guinea they hadn't ONE case of nonvascular dementia at all, in spite of many old people - they have mostly bad age statistics because of high infants mortality rate.

When I got my Tinnitus in 1979, ther wasn't ONE f-g book about it, the doctor said astonished; But tinnitus! Are you working with explosives, or are you a military? I didn't meet another tinnitussufferer until 2 years later, 10 years later they were thousands, now they are at least 500.000 he3re and 30.000.000 in US...

It requires a bit of thinking though. But not much really, and since you don't have to be ashamed of having had a profession that should have seen this coming, you don't have to deny it...

Excuse my english, it's Alzheimers...

(Actually, one of the tragedies with severe dementia-scandal is that it can easily be cured,and the demented patient can be much better...)

 

[TheAppleCore]

Saving on chewing is a bad thing. Chewing is necessary to induce salivary enzyme production in your mouth. Salivary enzymes are an important part of the digestion process. The slower you eat your food, and the more you chew, the healthier that food is going to be for you.

Interesting. I've actually found that I have to chew my food really well, and swallow my food in tiny amounts (against my instinct), or else I'll get a stomach ache.

The "recommended daily allowance" of Vitamin D in the diet recommended by the USDA is at least 10 times too little in many doctors' opinions.

Yep. Actually, AFAIK, that "recommended daily allowance" represents the minimum amount of vitamin D necessary to avoid deficiency-related disease, according to the USDA. Which is obviously not going to represent the quantity recommended for optimal health.

 

[Mehm]

Hey Changed, the best thing you can do for your health is have a positive attitude.