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(New South Wales) Random Drug Testing - does it distinguish between amphetamine and methamphetamine?

Jabberwocky

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
Joined
Nov 3, 1999
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Wondering whether you could realistically claim it was your ADHD meds (d-amp) producing the result rather than that big hit of meth you just had.
 
Apparently it does distinguish between methamphetamine and dexamphetamine, but that was what the officer said so take it with many grains of salt. That is, not going off for dexamphet, but yes for meth. Does not going of for most cathinones... BUT that doesn't mean get fucked up and drive high
 
Urine and blood tests do, if you get pulled over and have script for dexies then insist on a blood test.

mind you my doc said you can't drive with benzos is valium in system no matter what script you have so beware.

All drugs break down differently and toxicology is booming trade, you'll get in trouble if you fight it and know you're illegal, then you'll be targetted via licensed plates.
 
Good post, a lot of RC benzos break down into metabolites that are far different to what you'd expect, for example.

Your doctor though is wrong about driving + valium, though; you can drive, but must not drive "if affected". Technically that could mean you have just 0.01mg in you system, but in reality and legally it essentially means "if imparied." If causing a crash resulting in criminal investigation, having any in your system does always open up yourself to being attacked by prosecution who may argue that you were impaired, or were and didn't know it.
 
Im prescribed dexies and every time i have done a roadside test i have passed, i have informed the police that i take dex and they always tell me it shouldnt come up. Then again there has been times ive passed while smoking weed within the last 24 hours. The tests are unreliable as all hell.

Also if you fail and claim its because of dexies when you have actually used meth they will make you do a blood test which will show you are infact on meth
 
MindlessBilly said:
Im prescribed dexies and every time i have done a roadside test i have passed, i have informed the police that i take dex and they always tell me it shouldnt come up. Then again there has been times ive passed while smoking weed within the last 24 hours. The tests are unreliable as all hell.

Also if you fail and claim its because of dexies when you have actually used meth they will make you do a blood test which will show you are infact on meth
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Correct, but if if shows meth and you've only taken dexamphetamine, make sure that you get any blood tests subpoenaed and have them redone at a better lab, state police have horribly flawed testing which I will elaborate on later. Once it proves the police testing wrong, post here and and let's spread the word. Dexamphetamine has never been detected as meth for me and I don't take meth, and police have stated to me (grains of salt) that it won't show dexamphet, only meth.
 
Interesting. As I take both dexies and meth I was hoping that the two were indistinguishable (i.e. that it just flagged amphetamines of any kind)

Out of interest has anyone in NSW ever been Roadside Drug Tested? I've been breath tested plenty of times but never even heard of someone getting drug tested but have heard something like 50,000 tickets have been written for drug driving in NSW alone (not fact checked)
 
Atelier3 said:
Interesting. As I take both dexies and meth I was hoping that the two were indistinguishable (i.e. that it just flagged amphetamines of any kind)

Out of interest has anyone in NSW ever been Roadside Drug Tested? I've been breath tested plenty of times but never even heard of someone getting drug tested but have heard something like 50,000 tickets have been written for drug driving in NSW alone (not fact checked)
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I used to live in nsw, used to be flagged so they pulled me over lots of times. Dunno why but no they never roadside drug tested me either that I recall. Though I was once arrested and required to submit to a blood test because they suspected (correctly) that I was on heroin.

It wouldn't surprise me if the roadside drug tests didn't check for any amphetamines except meth. Since they are very simple tests made for mass production.

But, if they suspect you, they do have the power to arrest you and compel you to provide a sample at a hospital. And that'll definitely pick it up. Well, strictly speaking you can refuse to give the sample. But legally they will turn just assume that you would have tested positive.

I've never been a big amphetamine user, but I did used to regularly get urine drug tested at my methadone clinic in nsw and routinely saw the results. But my recollection, vague as it is, is that they can detect both meth and dexamphetamine. And distinguish them.
 
Some people will get a false positive for meth and others won’t, I’m not sure why.

I’ve also seen people get a false positive for meth when taking flu meds with ephedrine though too.

I asked my doctor about it and he said it’s to do with the way different people metabolise different drugs and nothing to do with the drugs themselves.

This is why road side testing is absolute BULLSHIT.
You get a positive and you’re off the road for 5-10 days while they send a sample for more accurate testing.
Meanwhile all you did was take your usual medication.
Suddenly you’ve lost your car, freedom and possibly your job.
For an error.

Total sham and should be abolished until they can do it properly.
It’s about revenue raising not safety.
 
Atelier3 said:
Every time? I’ve never even driven past a roadside drug test (though plenty of breath tests).

How prevalent is roadside drug testing anyway?
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It's different state to state. There's an app that tells where the busses are but I don't recall the name.

It's time consuming and expensive so I guess the drug busses aren't going to be ever as prevalent as rbt but every cop car can test, it's usually pulled out if you have blown just over and are waiting for a retest so def don't drink whatsoever, have had mates drug tested because they blew over.

You can refuse to do the test. You'll get a mark on your record and your plates will be checked whenever a cop scans them though.

Those saliva tests are basically to show the most likely drugs and if they're in your system or not. You can get a blood test done if you're adamant you're not high, blood levels are a good way to go especially with thc and if you haven't had any in weeks.

Smoking interferes with the saliva test allegedly, a drag just before pulling up. However this just delays the inevitable.
 
✿Dai₷y✿ said:
It's different state to state. There's an app that tells where the busses are but I don't recall the name.

It's time consuming and expensive so I guess the drug busses aren't going to be ever as prevalent as rbt but every cop car can test, it's usually pulled out if you have blown just over and are waiting for a retest so def don't drink whatsoever, have had mates drug tested because they blew over.

You can refuse to do the test. You'll get a mark on your record and your plates will be checked whenever a cop scans them though.

Those saliva tests are basically to show the most likely drugs and if they're in your system or not. You can get a blood test done if you're adamant you're not high, blood levels are a good way to go especially with thc and if you haven't had any in weeks.

Smoking interferes with the saliva test allegedly, a drag just before pulling up. However this just delays the inevitable.
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Speaking for nsw. Refusing to take the test will have serious consequences too. When I've looked into it in the past it appeared refusing to take the test can result a similar (or potentially worse) penalty to failing the test. I believe that's the case in Victoria too.

It's also worth noting that, in nsw at least but probably elsewhere. If the cops think you're high, they can always arrest you and take you to hospital for a blood and urine test. They don't have to have the saliva test kits. Again you can refuse but the punishment will be just as bad or worse for refusing.

Actually the saliva test would be a lot better in that case since the saliva test only tests for mdma, thc and methamphetamine. Whereas a blood or urine test will pick up a lot more than that.
 
I think you have to submit for blood tests if you're arrested doing something heinous or have been in an accident causing damage or death or injury, not sure if you are forced just by a roadside or random. If you refuse a test yes you lose your license for the maximum time as if you did test positive and have on your record failing to submit a test. It can cost you a huge fine or other so doing a test seems less a problem.

It's harder to get an extraordinary license and getting a lawyer shows you can afford alternative transport ie taxi so don't assume the lawyer route works all the time.

That's not legal advice just saying it's not worked in a couple mates favour.

Best bet is to get yourself a home drug test swab kit and test yourself, that way you'll know when you're clean.

Most ppl know when they're likely to swab positive for the usual so don't just drive around unless necessary, check the apps available for detecting busses but all pigs are potential swabbers.



Don't drive around in cars of mates that have records or be tempted to drive rabbit cara. Cops pull them over all the time.



@c97521d9

What's the deal with cathionines and not showing up?

I might have to investigate these, would prefer a stim that is less harsh than meth but I dunno yet.
 
✿Dai₷y✿ said:
I think you have to submit for blood tests if you're arrested doing something heinous or have been in an accident causing damage or death or injury, not sure if you are forced just by a roadside or random.
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I've been trying to find the relevant legislation to answer this question, at least in nsw. But have been having trouble getting a clear picture.

What I can tell you though is that in 2016 I was arrested and compelled to provide a blood test. I hadn't been in an accident, but the police would have had reason to believe I was driving under the influence. I was driving and the cops pulled me over. I wasn't stopped at a roadside drug test.

I can't recall if they breath tested me first. If they had though it would have been negative.

EDIT: Ok I checked the legislation for NSW...
Division 5 Road transport act...
You can be given a sobriety assessment if..

(a) a police officer has a reasonable belief that the person may be under the influence of a drug— (i) by the way in which the person— (A) is or was driving a motor vehicle on a road, or (B) is or was occupying the driving seat of a motor vehicle on a road and attempting to put the vehicle in motion, or (ii) by the behaviour, condition or appearance of the person at the time of or after the relevant event referred to in subclause (1)(a), and (b) the assessment is carried out by a police officer at or near the place where the person underwent the breath test
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after that..
If the person refuses to submit to a sobriety assessment under this Division or, after the assessment has been made, a police officer has a reasonable belief that the person is under the influence of a drug, the police officer may—

(a) arrest that person without warrant, and
(b) take the person (or cause the person to be taken) with such force as may be necessary to a hospital or a prescribed place and there detain the person (or cause the person to be detained) for the purpose of providing a blood or urine sample in accordance with this Division.
Click to expand...

and finally

15 Taking samples following arrest (cf STM Act, s 27(1) and (2))
(1) A police officer may require a person who has been arrested under clause 14 to provide samples of the person’s blood and urine (whether or not the person consents to them being taken) in accordance with the directions of an authorised sample taker
Click to expand...

So it won't happen just in a regular road side test... but if you appear under the influence of drugs (and given I can't remember if I was breath tested or what exactly was involved in the sobriety assessment, I obviously was), yeah it can happen.

If you don't live in NSW the laws could differ obviously...
 
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✿Dai₷y✿ said:
I think you have to submit for blood tests if you're arrested doing something heinous or have been in an accident causing damage or death or injury, not sure if you are forced just by a roadside or random. If you refuse a test yes you lose your license for the maximum time as if you did test positive and have on your record failing to submit a test. It can cost you a huge fine or other so doing a test seems less a problem.

It's harder to get an extraordinary license and getting a lawyer shows you can afford alternative transport ie taxi so don't assume the lawyer route works all the time.

That's not legal advice just saying it's not worked in a couple mates favour.

Best bet is to get yourself a home drug test swab kit and test yourself, that way you'll know when you're clean.

Most ppl know when they're likely to swab positive for the usual so don't just drive around unless necessary, check the apps available for detecting busses but all pigs are potential swabbers.



Don't drive around in cars of mates that have records or be tempted to drive rabbit cara. Cops pull them over all the time.



@c97521d9

What's the deal with cathionines and not showing up?

I might have to investigate these, would prefer a stim that is less harsh than meth but I dunno yet.
Click to expand...
I'll get my hands on the paperwork so it can be clarified once and for all, but they do seem to show up in >50% of blood or urine tests, as "an amphetamine". NSW roadside tests don't detect it likely because the only amphetamine they test for is methamphetamine; not dexampohetamine so I'm guessing that means both regular amphetamine isomers. This is the roadside test, saliva, tongue swab
 
I suppose if you do test positive for methamphetamine at a roadside drug test in NSW you can expect to be body-searched and have your car searched as well. So, that pipe, box of fits and the couple of grams of meth under the back seat will propably make it hard to argue the test delivered a false-positive for your ADHD meds....
 
Atelier3 said:
I suppose if you do test positive for methamphetamine at a roadside drug test in NSW you can expect to be body-searched and have your car searched as well. So, that pipe, box of fits and the couple of grams of meth under the back seat will propably make it hard to argue the test delivered a false-positive for your ADHD meds....
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At that point I think you'd be more worried about the possession charges, and yes that would give police reasonable suspicion to search
 
Turns out you can be charged for driving under influence of your Rx drugs - like dexamfetamine - if the police judge you to be driving ‘impaired’ in addition to testing positive.

The criteria for ‘impaired’ is subjective and only determined in court. There are no regulations about blood levels. Now i’m nervous about driving normally on my meds.
 
What’s not clear to me now is whether the saliva drug tests test for the original drug (i.e pure meth or pure dex) or metabolites after your body has absorbed those drugs.

Then, are the tested for metabolites of methamphetamine the same amphetamine meaning both drugs ultimately trigger the test the same way.

I’ve googled this to death and got nothing.

EDIT: cancel that, i got the answer on one manufacturers website. Meth saliva test does not register dexamfetamine https://ez-test.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/METSingleSalivaTest.pdf
 
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