Quick taper with suboxone?

[Sick_Girrrl]

I tapered from 4mg down to .5 in about 2-3 weeks. We just moved cross country and I gotta admit my timing could have been way better what with the packing and driving and unpacking and getting g settled!!!! I was only at. 5 for like 2 days..... and I made it 3 days off the suboxone before I caved and got the kratom. I couldn't deal with the sleeplessness and RLS/anxiety. I definitely agree with your statement about us just switching substances to fill our receptors! Even though I havent slammed dope for about 3 years and was clean for 2 yrs before that relapse, I feel like once a junkie always a junkie. My brain makes everything a million times worse I'm sure because it's the addict in me.

I took my last kratom dose yesterday morning around 10:30 am. Last night I slept maybe a total of 2 hours. I used gabapentin which I am prescribed for pain and also some tizanidine for muscle spasms....plus I smoked some of a joint which I never do lol because idk I guess it just makes me paranoid a little and never really was my thing. But I'm desperate for sleep so that I dont have to deal with this insane anxiety that makes me want to scream and run and cut my heart out! Its daylight now though and I have to care for the little ones so actually that helps as a huge distraction from the anxiety.

I am so glad to hear that day 5 and your good. I just need to muscle up buttercup and go through the shit! Lol I've been doing this long enough that i know there is no miracle to take away all the symptoms!!! Lol i just keep hoping what with modern medicine and all ... but actually fuck them. And fuck the pharmaceutical companies for promoting all their shit and being legal dope dealers.... anyway I'll stop the rant. Thanks for the feedback and shedding some optimistic light in weary direction. And most of all congratulations.

 

[KraziKat]

Hi everyone. I'm not sure if I am posting in the right spot or not. I've searched around on Bluelight randomly in the past but only registered to post recently. I'm interested to know about getting off Kratom after using it to ease the withdrawal from Suboxone.

Quick history: have been an IV heroin user in the past, got prescribed Norcos for severe back pain about 2 years ago, started abusing those and then ended up on suboxone a lot longer than anticipated because of pregnancy.... Suboxone had horrible effects with regard to making me robotic and unable to experience emotions. I was just blah. Not to mention no sex drive. So recently I tapered from the 24mg a day down to about .5 mg and jumped off. On day 3 I went and got some Kratom. Been using the kratom for about a week.

My question is: will I now have to detox/withdrawal from the Kratom? I've been using about 25 g a day. I wake up around 4 am needing to take more Kratom. I dont want to substitute one issue for another. Any advice from anyone who has used Kratom for withdrawal and subsequently been able to get off the kratom would be helpful. Maybe I'm just a wuss and can't deal with the withdrawal.... kicked plenty of times in my life cold Turkey. I think my brain is set to expect the worse and I have a hard time getting past a couple sleepless nights. Also I have a 3 yr old and 1 yr old who require constant attention so being too sick is not really an option for me.

I read the posts about the gabapentin and I would definitely agree they help with withdrawal. Maybe I should just stick to using those? Although I feel maybe I should let my tolerance go back down since I was using them to cope with the suboxone taper.

I am currently a week into my kratom taper. I also have two small kids and a job, so I just can't do CT right now. I went from about 150 mg/day oxy to about 25-30 gpd kratom for the WD, now, as of yesterday I am down to 12 gpd. It's been hard but not impossible. There are so many things I can list that would help, but for now, I strongly suggest you visit the r/quittingkratom sub on Reddit. SO MUCH info and more importantly a very active community of kratom quitters, some at more than 100 gpd. There are several supplements that people swear help in tapering and quitting – agmatine, black seed oil, to name two.

I visit that site everyday all day. Log in your progress, it will help you be accountable. Quitting kratom is really hard. I have been on and off for 6+ years and I desperately want my life and brain back. We can do it! I actually feel okay today, and I only dosed 3 grams this AM. Trying to get into single digits over the next few days.

 

[LFODLouise]

I just went through/am still going through almost exactly the same situation. I'm going to write out the back story as short as possible, but if you don't want to read it I will put what I've learned at the bottom.

Got pregnant almost the moment I went on Suboxone after 10 years of using (IV heroin, pills, blow), then got pregnant once again after unsuccessfully attempting to get off the subs three times. So I ended up being on them for about three and a half years and also have a one and three year old.

In February 2019 I was lucky enough to go to a detox facility to get medically detoxed (I had tapered to about 1mg), left early because despite them not giving me any meds that helped (blood pressure too low for clonidine, they wouldn't give any benzos which would've helped, no sleep meds), I was feeling pretty ok after 10 days of wd hell.

My first day home I was absolutely wiped and the paws seemed to have kicked in hard. The kids were the most exhausting thing, and I could barely drag myself out of bed. This went on for maybe two weeks, never seeming to improve before I caved and started taking the tiniest bit of subs just so I could smile at my kids. My only thoughts
were of using and driving into oncoming traffic. So after a week of that, I started to feel guilty, told my husband, and he made me take some kratom which I had tried in the past and didn't think helped past day one of wd. Turns out it helped tremendously with paws, and I felt better than I had in a long time.

Trying to keep this short but relatable, I don't mean to make this about me! There was a death on his side of the family, he had to leave for ten days, I had kids alone, and after a week I started taking subs..again... and so now I was taking subs and kratom together.

Eventually, after two and a half months I ran out of subs and had to wd again, and at this point we're in different states so I'm watching a one and three year old round the clock no help for the whole summer. It wasn't bad at all using the kratom. Every couple hours I would take 1 to 2 grams, and only felt the sweating and a little restlessness at night. After a couple weeks, that much kratom seemed to be having adverse effects on my blood pressure, and I felt horrible and tired and grumpy AF. And I felt more trapped than I had on subs. So I started cutting back.

TLDR: To get off the kratom now that I was a month free of subs-- I pushed my dose back an hour or as long as I could stand, and I tried to resist the habit of getting up at night to take it which was easier than I thought it'd be. I had some CBN patches (great for anxiety and sleep) and CBD patches, some CBD joints and oil (really helped me relax and fall asleep), and some CBD/THC rub that help my busted ass knees and back not feel so awful.

Most importantly I tried to stay busy. I didn't really feel like doing much, but once I got going it was usually a little better, and if nothing else, made the day go by. I had a lot of really awful days when I dreaded the kids waking up, and times that I wanted to give them away, but every day I could start over and hope that it would get better.

After about ten days of cutting back from ten to twenty grams a day, I was down to two grams and actually feeling better. Yesterday morning I woke up feeling pretty good and decided to see how it went not taking any for as long as I could and ended up not needing any the whole day; I had a lot more energy and was in a good mood and just a little sweaty.

If it were me, I'd stay on the kratom for a little longer while you're still going through the sub wd so you're not detoxing from the both of them. Take as much as you need until you feel like you're stabilizing from sub wds. Stay busy, exercise, eat some protein, get CBD if you can. It's really fucking hard with kids at times, so be gentle with yourself. I took them for daily drives when I felt like I couldn't do it anymore, I flipped out more than usual, and they ate frozen burritos and rice and beans for a lot of meals. It's ok, they're still healthy and they still love their mom. Yours will too.

Like you said, the subs make you a robot with no sex drive, and for me, they made me unsympathetic, took away my creativity, and made me into an apathetic, boring ocd mom who still nodded out every time I drove. I hated who I was. It was nothing I'd ever pictured for myself and I constantly felt lost and unfulfilled.

I understand the fear of going through wd with your kids around. I didn't give myself any room to be a "bad" mom, but you're doing the right thing getting off all this shit. Don't let yourself be trapped by it; it's hard to remember when you're deep in the depths of wd, but it will get better (sorry, I hated when people said that to me when I felt awful, but it IS true). Don't be too hard on yourself, just listen to your body, do what you can, and as long as you and your kids are still alive at the end of the day you're doing just fine and are one day closer to being free! Please message me if you need any support, and stay strong

 

[Scrillion]

Hey everybody, this has been an informative thread. I know it’s a little old but I thought I’d share a quick version of my experience with Kratom and Suboxone. I became dependent on Kratom, was taking 80+ grams a day at the end, tried tapering and cold turkeying like 8 times over 6 months. The withdrawals were unbearable. Tried to get into a medical detox. Couldn’t get in due to cost or lack of room or the fact they didn’t know what Kratom is. Ended up at a Sub clinic after a week on the phone trying to find a med detox. Went on Subs because of Kratom!!! Stupid!!! Dr also gave me Klonopin. Also stupid!!! Now it’s a year and a half later and I’m dependent on 50mg/day of Diazepam and 24mg/day Subs. Fucking nightmare. I never feel not sick. Obviously I had an idiot Dr. Changed clinics. Love my new Dr., but I want off these fucking drugs. I plan on tapering the diazepam very slowly over several years, but I’ve decided the Subs have to go now. I can’t afford $10k for a med detox so I’m going to get all my affairs in order, do a fast taper, get some comfort meds (possibly Gabapentin, Baclofen, Methocarbamol, etc) and lock myself in my basement until the hell is over. I know it’s going to be excruciating, I’ve been through cold turkey Klonopin withdrawals which was the most painful and horrifying experience of my life. (Lasted 4 months and another 4 till I felt normal). I don’t think this will be as bad but it’s going to be bad. I’m hoping 4-6 weeks. I know it sounds crazy but the Subs make me sick to the point I can barely function anyway and I’m not going to waste another year or longer of my life living like this. I have family I’ll be staying with and will help me get through it. Anyway, the point is....Kratom can ruin your life just like any other opiate, though you’d have to take large amounts for quite a while to be as bad as oxy, heroin, etc. But, it happened to me and I know several others who’ve gone through the same thing. So please be careful with Kratom. It could be “trading” one drug for another too if you’re not careful. Best of luck and much love to all suffering from addiction and trying and getting clean.

 

[Jsturgell]

I would suggest being very careful of a quick taper because sometimes it seems more like standard withdrawals. If it doesn't work for you do not give up and try again with a long taper. I relapsed when I tried the quick taper that resulted in a lengthy bit of time away that ultimately cleaned me up. This makes me naturally in favor of a long taper if you have not ran into any legal issues under the care of a physician.

 

[d896629]

What happens if you do methadone, followed by five days of nothing, then five days of subs, then five days of methadone. At the very end of that, would you be addicted to either subs or methadone, or...?

 

[Jabberwocky]

What happens if you do methadone, followed by five days of nothing, then five days of subs, then five days of methadone. At the very end of that, would you be addicted to either subs or methadone, or...?

I think you're just addicted to getting your opioid receptors filled with something.
It's chemical unbalance in your brain, the addiction itself.
I do sometimes methadone, but mostly subs.

 

[d896629]

I think you're just addicted to getting your opioid receptors filled with something.
It's chemical unbalance in your brain, the addiction itself.
I do sometimes methadone, but mostly subs.

Good point. I think you are right. I will say, things like eating food, drinking coffees, watching movies, and life in general is feeling much better for me now.

Without making another massive post on it [link below], if I went a few days on nothing, 13mg methadone, a few days on nothing, some T1's [cold water extracted], then 1mg Suboxone daily for a week, should I be in massive withdrawal next week?

I was thinking that I would do 5-7 days of Xanax [I have no benzodiazepine addiction, so I could do that safely, ranging from 0.5mg to 2mg Xanax daily], and...? Maybe I'd be there?

Here are the details up until the date this was posted. I've basically used 1mg of Suboxone for a week, but have no more Suboxone left [although I can get more], but I have more than enough Xanax to get me through a week - possibly just sleeping 16+ hours a day to get through it.

Here is my thread - I know it's bad form to bump a thread up, but I may end up doing that. I tend to type a lot, but I wanted to get the details out there:

https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/shaking-off-tiny-lingering-opiate-habit.891122

 

[Jabberwocky]

T1's? What's that?

 

[d896629]

T1's? What's that?

Whoops - my bad. T1's are Tylenol 1's. In Canada, that means they contain 8mg codeine. I used cold water filtration to remove the actual Tylenol.

So basically, last week I had a week with nothing, aside from 13mg methadone at the midway mark. Then I had some T1's [although I think this is insignificant], and I had an 8mg Suboxone hexagonal pill in its original packaging, which I have taken over the past week. Basically 1mg Suboxone for a week.

I wasn't in serious withdrawal in recent days, and taking the Suboxone days after the methadone [and 30 hours after the T1's] did not precipitate withdrawal.

I am looking to go 5-7 days on 1mg of Xanax daily [I have no benzodiazepine addiction], then 2-3 days at 1mg Suboxone, and THEN stopping EVERYTHING.

I will also allow myself 1-2 cigarettes tomorrow [I am not addicted to nicotine].

By "stopping EVERYTHING", I mean waiting a full week before having a night of 40mg Oxycontin over around a 30 hour period, followed by another week off, then 10 days off, 14 days off, then use 1-2 times per month.

It is not my intention to quit, I just want to gradually get back to using at least once a year [most likely], but absolutely NOT more than once a week.

Do you think my Xanax plan is worth trying? It would be maximum 7 days of use, between 0.5mg to 2mg daily MAX, so avoid becoming addicted to benzodiazepine.

I don't know about everyone else, but if I'm only using once or twice a month, maybe once a week MAX, I am not going to feel to guilty about that.

Once a month would probably be my ideal "treat".

I am willing to go abstinent for life, but I'm not 100% certain that I need to do that. I might go months and months or even 2021 on nothing, just to prove I can. But again - I just don't think I need to do that. Of course, any suggestions here would be appreciated.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I think you're not going to have withdrawals.