Quick question: Insufflated 2c-i - how long does it take?

[Vader]

Vader, no idea why you are seeing fit to come up with reasons to whack me.

I wasn't whacking you, I disagreed with what you were saying and the argument you used to support it, that's all. I'm sorry if I offended you, it certainly was not my intention.

(1) Snorting 2C chems does little to change the effects profile

Again, I have to disagree, snorted 2Cs come on extremely quickly, and are much more potent and, IME, visual by that ROA. However, for me, that doesn't make it worthwhile, given that...

(2) it hurts like fuck

Is completely true. Seriously, folks, snorting 2Cs is like being kicked in the face. It's not a little sting, it is awful prolonged noxious burning pain.

(3) it almost certainly increases the risks (probably via cardiovascular strain due to faster absorption of these typically highly stimulating substances)

I have yet to see any evidence for this. Can you point me in the direction of a study? I think we have to be careful with what conclusions we draw from the data we have available.

(4) there is at least one well documented case of death after snorting 2C substance.

See, this is what I have a problem with. There's no documented cases of THIS 2C being lethal when insufflated. 2C-T-7 and meth are both phenethylamines- does the fact that the former is dangerous to snort mean that the latter is, too? The logic of your argument is- some 2Cs are dangerous when snorted. 2C-I is a 2C. Therefore, 2C-I is dangerous when snorted. That is formally invalid. In order for it to be valid, you would have to change the first premise to "all 2Cs are dangerous when snorted". That is not something that we have evidence for, and it is something I felt you essentially assumed. That's where the beef was.

I think 2C-I is a great chem and I have sung it's praises on numerous occasions here, but just wanted to point out the above to all the people jumping on the snorting bandwagon that it's probably best NOT to go that route with this chem. M' Kay? Just eat it folks, it is *NOT* cocaine or anywhere whatsoever the slightest bit close, NOT very good at all for snorting, OK?

Agreed, but...

And that ROI might possibly based on known evidence put you at increased risk of harm

^ I hope it is now clear why I take issue with that.

 

[DwayneHoover]

It's just a caution Vader, OK? This is a harm reduction site above all else, got that?

I am saying it's my impression that people are probably exposed to lower levels of health risks if they go oral with 2C-I and avoid snorting. No I don't have any ironclad "proof" of that opinion, and you don't have any that it's "safe" either. So we've both expressed our thoughts and opinions. Right-O.

 

[Vader]

I was on senior staff once, so yes, one hopes that I have grasped the basic idea of this being a harm reduction site. I think that misinformation is counterproductive to our goal, and scaring people with unsubstantiated claims is something I expect to see on the DARE site, not BL. Your epistemology is odd- no, I can't prove that snorted 2C-I is safe, and I don't necessarily believe that. The burden of proof doesn't lie with the skeptic, though. I didn't ask you for "ironclad proof" (as if such a thing existed at all), I pointed out that there was not a single reported case of anyone having suffered any harm whatsoever from snorted 2C-I. Your belief that this is a dangerous activity is a leap of faith not rooted in empirical evidence, and that is not what we should base our HR advice on.

 

[omicamushroom]

I knew a few people who built up great tolerances, and would find it manageable to snort 20 or so mg of 2cI or 2cE, or whichever one they had. No one hurt themselves in the short term. Who knows about the longterm though. Even from the limited amount (maybe 100 mg of various 2cs) I have put into my nose in the past few years, the only thing I worry about is the condition of my nose. However, I do not doubt that every so often I will get the itch to put 5-6 mg in my nose. I especially liked the effects of snorting 2ce.

2ct2 seemed much different than my oral attempts... and was extremely potent. High dose t2 oral vs snorted seemed like 2 very different experiences. I believe it was due to the come up period. On the oral dose I was getting bodily temperature shifts, lots of stimulation, dizziness, and feelings of nausea. These effects were heavy for the first couple hours, and even continued until maybe the third or fourth hour. Then I felt psychedelic for a few hours and then it was over. Low dose I was fine. High snorted dose of t2, made me feel like I had the flu for 15 minutes. My nose became extremely agitated, and I wanted to puke. These effects only lasted for 15 minutes though. Then I completely chilled out. The visuals were much more mind-blowing than eating it.


Just some observations. Snorting 2c's does not necessarily harm someone immediately.
Snorting 2ct2 rather than eating it leads to a different experience.

Some people freak out if they eat 10mg of 2cI. Does this mean that we should tell people that it is unsafe to do 2cI above 10mg? Where do we draw the line on harm reduction? We have plenty of people on this site who trip every week. Generally, if the person shows no concern, and seems as though they are enjoying their experiences, no one puts up a big post saying how reckless and irresponsible this is - saying how dangerous it may be or how crazy they may become. Though plenty of blue lighters and staff do mention that it is probably best to space trips out, and that the longer we take in between trips the more we will be able to get out of the trip.


Yeah its a tricky issue. The more popular blue light gets, the more people who are gonna use. When there are a bunch of people involved in something, that something can greatly change. So here we have it, in blue lights beginnings not many people were concerned with snorting 2cs. Then we got some reports that people were doing it. Now we have a bunch of threads popping up about it. Hell, there's even threads about IVing 2cs. People will get hurt... when any drug gets popular. Look at alcohol. Plenty of people practice good alcohol use, then there's a bunch of people who act like idiots with it. It is exciting for kids to drink until they puke. They act as though they enjoy it. Some people never drink, because they think that it is evil. Some people don't snort 2cs because it is evil and dangerous and stupid. I'd rather snort a 2c, rather than drink until I puke....

Subjectivity.


Okay I am drifting too far into trails. My apologies if this post is scattered.

 

[Jesusgreen]

Although I don't think we need to be warning people about snorting 2C-I being potentially fatal, the severe burn from these drugs is usually indicative of it being very bad for your nose, so it's worth keeping that in mind.

Since you've already had your answer on time scales, I'll add a little advice: If you're going to snort 2Cs, or anything that burns this much, I advise taking several small bumps spaced 30-60 seconds apart, rather than doing it all in one go. It dramatically decreases the overall burn in my experience, but gets you to the same place, at the same time