Questions: Views on male vs female sexuality

[birdup.snaildown]

There are certain things that can lead you to be more likely to develop a condition.

 

[burn out]

And I'm sure the "experts" at lifesitenews.com work very hard for their information



But the statistics are about people who have unprotected sex, not necessarily about gay people. That's how this is often turned, because gay people have more unprotected sex(since no chance of pregnancy). But saying that just being gay is the same health risk as being obese, that makes no fucking sense at all. There are gay virgins, I'm sure

You're cherry picking what aspects of the comparison you want emphasized to suit your ends. For example, when it comes to fat people you might find that life expectancy increases significantly if you control for factors such as unhealthy diet, lack of exercise, smoking and alcohol use which likely go along with being overweight. It will also depend on how you define fat.

Because I am the one who originally made this comparison, and did not do so in the context of trying to argue that one was healthier than the other or specify how fat one had to be in order to qualify as fat, this is not an argument you can win.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

Yeah well I denounce you!

 

[Phoenix_03]

I actually don't agree that being gay is inherently more difficult than being straight "because of the world we live in". I think that depends a lot on the location and the individual as well. There's certainly no shortage of gay celebrities and gay men earn more money on average than straight men. I live in a very blue area in the USA and there are rainbow flags everywhere, organizations for gay people to join, parades, scholarships, resource centers, etc. Rather than be worried about how hard his life would be I would be thinking more about how to help him take advantage of all the opportunities it would open up for him. Victimhood is power and being gay allows you to claim membership in an oppressed class.

You’re right, its not inherently more difficult considering how far we have come as far as acceptance and more marriage laws allowing any adult couple to marry, regardless of gender. It’s improved , drastically. I know that doesn’t mean everyone in the world that was a bigot suddenly isn’t, and encounters with people like this are my concern. I don’t think many gay people are claiming victimhood status, if anything they are just trying to be seen equally as their straight counterparts. To do so, sometimes they have to make their voices heard in whatever form will get people’s attention. I don’t think playing into being a victim is an advantage, the playing field should be level for all. Our race, gender, sexuality , disability , etc. should not be the reason we get a job, we should be getting the job because we qualify.

 

[Phoenix_03]

To the first question, I’ve talked about this with others too. The conclusion we made was that women are inherently more attractive than males.

As to the other question, idk but it’s very frustrating. Had this happen in my family actually... My aunt and uncle wanted to play super progressive until it was their daughter who thought she was gay, then it was a big deal.

-GC

That seems to be the answer a lot, too regarding females being more attractive. To a gay man i’m sure that doesn’t apply. I’m a straight female, i can notice and appreciate a beautiful woman, but i’m attracted to men. I don’t find two men together, even sexually, to be unattractive at all. Or two females, sex is sex.

 

[ControlDaddy]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I have a question for anyone who'd care to share. Actually 2. I've asked several people this (male and female) over time and I'm surprised by some of the answers, even from the women. If you consider yourself an accepting person, you have no problem with anyone's sexuality, etc., do you view two females together the same way as you view two males together? Everyone I asked this to has been straight and nearly all said they are accepting, all that, but they view two men together as "more unpleasant" than two females. They didn't use those words, I'm just substituting with something that is slightly less offensive. Even women have said that and I don't get it. You watch porn and see a video with a guy + a girl, one with 2 girls and one with 2 guys, and think the first 2 are fine, even like them, but the last 1 is somehow unpleasant to you?

My 2nd question is if you're accepting, have no issue with anyone's sexuality and approve of gay marriage, do your views waver at all if your child comes out to you? I can't believe it when people tell me they would not accept it or they're not sure what they would think/do. How accepting can you really be if you'd throw your own child out of your house for telling you they're gay?(That was a coworker's response)
I've thought about this a lot because my daughter has known she was gay since she was little. Hell, I knew too and her dad, I don't even know how but we had conversations long before she ever told us. Luckily, neither one of us had any issue with it, but when I asked him how he'd feel if our son came out to us he said that's different and he didn't know how he would react. I don't understand this view of men being so rigidly placed in a box where straight is "normal" and anything else is "whatever negative adjective someone wants to use." Yet, females are free to flow from men to women and back and it's "beautiful, erotic".

TL;DR - 2 questions on this topic 1) do you view a lesbian couple any differently than a gay couple? 2) if you accept everyone's sexuality/approve of gay marriage does that mean you'd be fine with your child coming out to you?

1) I am chuckling because what I am about to say sounds so ridiculous given how big a role pornography has played in my life, but I have never seen even a second of gay porn video! I don't know how that is possible. I have seen still photos of gay porn but I didn't look closely at it. Something primal tells me I won't like taking it in.

I think that is very strange considering that the porn I have fetishized, and thus the porn I look at 80% of the time, prominently features penises in almost every frame. I realized just a few years ago, that part of my fetish are those enormous turgid cocks. I didn't worry that I might be gay or anything like that. I just realized how odd fetishes were compared to conventional sexuality. I don't know if I could go without the fetishes at this point in my life.

When I was younger I had gay men trying to fuck me all the time. I can find a guy attractive, and stand to have him grope me a bit, but that doesn't turn me on and when they whip out their dicks I am certain I have no interest in any penises except my own. A college buddy and I made out with each other at a few different parties, to "get things started" and the girls would all go crazy mad with lust when and after we did it, which was very exciting and arousing, but I knew it was about the girls. Kissing a guy feels exactly like kissing a girl, I thought. I doubt that absent any girls there wouldn't have been any arousal or even a kiss!

So, I watch porn that features solo girls, I love the female form, and watching them fake masturbate. I usually warm myself up with that. I skip the girl on girl stuff usually. I watch a lot of guy-girl porn, mostly petite women/huge cock stuff, but I have so little interest if there are no women in it I haven't even seen any gay porn. I don't thing I would feel revulsion or anything, I almost feel as if it is not my property and belongs to someone else.

2) I don't have kids, but I am going to say that I raised my little brother most of his life. When I first went to college we were separated but soon my mother couldn't handle him anymore and he came to live with me. One of the reasons she couldn't handle him was he had started wearing makeup and women's clothing. I didn't care, I thought he looked pretty bad ass. I grew up loving David Bowie and thinking he was the shit, so I dug my brother's look. He died young and in that time I never questioned his sexuality, he seemed to always go for girls so I thought of him as hetero and he never told me different.

 

[burn out]

You’re right, its not inherently more difficult considering how far we have come as far as acceptance and more marriage laws allowing any adult couple to marry, regardless of gender. It’s improved , drastically. I know that doesn’t mean everyone in the world that was a bigot suddenly isn’t, and encounters with people like this are my concern. I don’t think many gay people are claiming victimhood status, if anything they are just trying to be seen equally as their straight counterparts. To do so, sometimes they have to make their voices heard in whatever form will get people’s attention. I don’t think playing into being a victim is an advantage, the playing field should be level for all. Our race, gender, sexuality , disability , etc. should not be the reason we get a job, we should be getting the job because we qualify.

I agree that our race, gender, sexuality etc shouldn't be the reason we get a job but that's just not how things work in this country. Corporations and institutions want to be able to show off how "diverse" they are. They think it makes them look virtuous and helps shield them from criticism. It's actually being signed into law now:

New California law, the first of its kind, requires racial diversity on corporate boards of directors

CA Gov. Gavin Newsom signed a law requiring publicly traded corporations based in California to appoint board members from underrepresented groups.

www.usatoday.com

Being a straight white male is the lowest possible position on this hierarchy, but being gay gives you a lot points. Sometimes it's still not enough to offset the major white maleness penalty though: https://abc7news.com/sfusd-sfud-pac-parent-advisory-council-seth-brenzel/10328448/

If I had a gay son, I wouldn't encourage him to see himself as a victim but I would encourage him to take advantage of all the opportunities that being gay afforded to him. If some organization wanted to give him a scholarship because he was a gay or some company wanted to hire him, I'd encourage him to take it.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

I'm not sure I understand your comment. It's curious but I don't get it. No offence.


@December Flower

I don't know if you mean me or not. If not I don't know what you mean. If so, I'm equally oblivious.

 

[ControlDaddy]

But hey bigots gonna bigot.

They is ain’t they?

Come on, I am not the only one who sees what burn out did there? This is elementary trolling, not even 101.

 

[JessFR]

It sounds like you're saying parents are not allowed to have preferences regarding their kids. Just like you say it's highly problematic to suggest it's a choice to be gay or be fat, it's also highly problematic to tell other people how they are supposed to feel and what desires or preferences they are allowed to have and label them as bigots if they don't happen to line up with your sensibilities.

I didn't say I would disown my kid if he turned out to be gay or overweight, it's just that ideally I would prefer it if it wasn't the case. What's wrong with that? I think it's perfectly normal for a parent to have certain preferences for how they'd like their kids to turn out. For example, let's say a man works hard to build a farm which he then hopes to pass on to his son and grandson. Unfortunately for him, it turns out his son isn't interested in farming, doesn't want kids and instead becomes an accountant. The father still loves him and does his best to support him but he can't help but be just a little bit disappointed that his son doesn't share his love of farming. His mother also loves him but she can't help but feel a bit disappointed he doesn't want children because she really wanted grandchildren. I would argue that those are perfectly natural, normal feelings.

Now it's a different thing if your kids don't turn out how you had hoped and you disown them because of it, I understand the criticism for a parent who would do something like that. However to tell a parent they can't have preferences for whether their kids turn out gay or straight, fat or thin, beautiful or ugly, intelligent or stupid, etc is unrealistic and amounts to a denial of the parent's own inner child. People feel what they feel and want what they want, it's not something they have complete control over.

I am pretty sure the majority of parents have these kinds of preferences although they may not be willing to admit it out of fear that they will be called a bigot by someone like you.

I'm not saying you can't have preferences. I'm also not saying you can't hope that your child has as many advantages as ossible.

But there's a subtle yet important difference between saying "I hope my child is straight so they experience less persecution" and saying you wouldn't like it if your child was gay because... being gay is somehow inherently less desirable even in a vacuum.

Your original post gave me a strong sense you were saying the latter. And well, yea that's prejudiced, if that's what you were saying that is.

 

[Mona Lisa]

Over the years I have grown increasingly uncomfortable with women overtly asserting their sexuality. I can't bear the "Dyke" subculture.
I can't logically explain my hangups, and they have worsened since menopause.

I would guess it's because a lot of it has been passed down from my mother and sexually repressed husband. So perhaps there is admittedly an element of sour grapes to me

It seems natural to feel sexual when young and full of hormones, but age has brought wisdom and caution.

 

[burn out]

I'm not saying you can't have preferences. I'm also not saying you can't hope that your child has as many advantages as ossible.

But there's a subtle yet important difference between saying "I hope my child is straight so they experience less persecution" and saying you wouldn't like it if your child was gay because... being gay is somehow inherently less desirable even in a vacuum.

Your original post gave me a strong sense you were saying the latter. And well, yea that's prejudiced, if that's what you were saying that is.

I understand you think it's prejudiced but I am asking you what exactly is so wrong about it and what do you suggest should be done? Should I attend a re-education camp or sign up for conversion therapy to rid myself of this horrible perverse desire for a traditional family? How is this different from telling a gay person they should try conversion therapy? Both cases involve trying to remove a desire from someone, which they have no control over.

Again, I want to make it clear I am not saying I would disown a child if they turned out to be gay or not still do my best to raise them in a loving and supportive environment. I am saying that like the majority of parents, I am not without preferences for my (hypothetical) children. It's natural to want your kids to take after you and to want things like grandchildren and I am willing to bet that a majority of parents throughout history, if answering honestly, would tell you that they have at least a slight preferences for straight children over gay children, even if they will love and accept the gay children as well. If you want to consider them all bigots for this (unless of course it's only for some reason you personally deem acceptable like "so they have every possible advantage") than I guess that's your right but I fail so see what's so wrong with it and I question whether it really makes sense to put them in the same category as someone who would actually disown their children for being gay.

 

[Phoenix_03]

I understand you think it's prejudiced but I am asking you what exactly is so wrong about it and what do you suggest should be done? Should I attend a re-education camp or sign up for conversion therapy to rid myself of this horrible perverse desire for a traditional family? How is this different from telling a gay person they should try conversion therapy? Both cases involve trying to remove a desire from someone, which they have no control over.

Again, I want to make it clear I am not saying I would disown a child if they turned out to be gay or not still do my best to raise them in a loving and supportive environment. I am saying that like the majority of parents, I am not without preferences for my (hypothetical) children. It's natural to want your kids to take after you and to want things like grandchildren and I am willing to bet that a majority of parents throughout history, if answering honestly, would tell you that they have at least a slight preferences for straight children over gay children, even if they will love and accept the gay children as well. If you want to consider them all bigots for this (unless of course it's only for some reason you personally deem acceptable like "so they have every possible advantage") than I guess that's your right but I fail so see what's so wrong with it and I question whether it really makes sense to put them in the same category as someone who would actually disown their children for being gay.

I don't want my kids taking after me, I want them to do better than me. I would love to have grandchildren and I'm not concerned that I won't be able to have any because one of my kids is gay. There's options now, especially for females since they can adopt or get pregnant themselves. I definitely don't have a preference when it comes to my children and their future sexuality, if anything I'm a little relieved. No accidental pregnancies for my daughter. I really don't view it in any kind of special way at all it's just another part of her. She has curly hair, brown eyes, she's silly and she likes girls instead of boys. *shrug*

 

[burn out]

I don't want my kids taking after me, I want them to do better than me. I would love to have grandchildren and I'm not concerned that I won't be able to have any because one of my kids is gay. There's options now, especially for females since they can adopt or get pregnant themselves. I definitely don't have a preference when it comes to my children and their future sexuality, if anything I'm a little relieved. No accidental pregnancies for my daughter. I really don't view it in any kind of special way at all it's just another part of her. She has curly hair, brown eyes, she's silly and she likes girls instead of boys. *shrug*

I never said all parents prefer straight children. I am sure there are some who genuinely have no preference and some that would even prefer gay children so I am not sure what point you're trying to make. As an aside though, let's say hypothetically that you did have a preference to have a straight child. Would you feel as comfortable admitting that here?

And btw wanting your children to take after you and wanting them to do better than you are by no means mutually exclusive. Barry Bonds's father was a great baseball player and his son took after him, also becoming a great baseball player whose athletic accomplishments ended up exceeding those of his father.

 

[Phoenix_03]

I never said all parents prefer straight children. I am sure there are some who genuinely have no preference and some that would even prefer gay children so I am not sure what point you're trying to make. As an aside though, let's say hypothetically that you did have a preference to have a straight child. Would you feel as comfortable admitting that here?

And btw wanting your children to take after you and wanting them to do better than you are by no means mutually exclusive. Barry Bonds's father was a great baseball player and his son took after him, also becoming a great baseball player whose athletic accomplishments ended up exceeding those of his father.

The point I was making was regarding your previous post saying you thought if majority of parents were to be honest, they would admit they preferrred having a straight child. I gave my stance as a parent on the subject. I'm not arguing with you at all but I feel like you think I'm saying your points are wrong so you keep responding with another counterargument. You said it's natural for parents to want kids to take after them. Yes, in many cases, I simply pointed out from my own perspective, I wanted them to achieve even more. I was trying to have an exchange of ideas that maybe highlighted the fact that saying blanket statements about what the 'majority' of anyone would do or would think is not fair since no one can really know that.

 

[Phoenix_03]

As an aside though, let's say hypothetically that you did have a preference to have a straight child. Would you feel as comfortable admitting that here?

Well, hypothetically, if that was the case I probably wouldn't have started the thread.

 

[Phoenix_03]

They is ain’t they?

Come on, I am not the only one who sees what burn out did there? This is elementary trolling, not even 101.

Damnit! And here I am feeding the troll

 

[ControlDaddy]

Damnit! And here I am feeding the troll

It's OK those fuggin' trolls are sophisticated when bathed in blue lights. Twisty words and flexible arguments, we all get beat here and there a 'lil

 

[burn out]

The point I was making was regarding your previous post saying you thought if majority of parents were to be honest, they would admit they preferrred having a straight child. I gave my stance as a parent on the subject. I'm not arguing with you at all but I feel like you think I'm saying your points are wrong so you keep responding with another counterargument. You said it's natural for parents to want kids to take after them. Yes, in many cases, I simply pointed out from my own perspective, I wanted them to achieve even more.

And I simply pointed out the two aren't mutually exclusive. I don't understand how what I did is different from what you're doing.

I was trying to have an exchange of ideas that maybe highlighted the fact that saying blanket statements about what the 'majority' of anyone would do or would think is not fair since no one can really know that.

Saying the majority isn't a blanket statement. A blanket statement would be if I said something like "Well obviously no one wants a gay kid". I was careful to make it clear I was simply stating my opinion that the majority of parents throughout history would have at least a slight preference for a straight child over a gay one. I don't think that's unfair because while it is true there is no way to know for certain, that doesn't mean I can't speculate based on what we know about history and human nature.

For example, let's say we both worked for the government and it was up to us to decide how often people should have to come to the DMV to renew their driver's license and you suggested every six months. In response I said "I think majority of people really aren't going to like having to come here to renew their driver's license that often". Would you say that was an unfair blanket statement since I have no way of knowing that for certain?

You see what I am saying? You can dispute my opinion that the majority of parents throughout history would have at least a slight preference for a straight child and you can try to provide evidence to the contrary, but I don't think it's accurate to call it an unfair blanket statement.

 

[Phoenix_03]

And I simply pointed out the two aren't mutually exclusive. I don't understand how what I did is different from what you're doing.



Saying the majority isn't a blanket statement. A blanket statement would be if I said something like "Well obviously no one wants a gay kid". I was careful to make it clear I was simply stating my opinion that the majority of parents throughout history would have at least a slight preference for a straight child over a gay one. I don't think that's unfair because while it is true there is no way to know for certain, that doesn't mean I can't speculate based on what we know about history and human nature.

For example, let's say we both worked for the government and it was up to us to decide how often people should have to come to the DMV to renew their driver's license and you suggested every six months. In response I said "I think majority of people really aren't going to like having to come here to renew their driver's license that often". Would you say that was an unfair blanket statement since I have no way of knowing that for certain?

You see what I am saying? You can dispute my opinion that the majority of parents throughout history would have at least a slight preference for a straight child and you can try to provide evidence to the contrary, but I don't think it's accurate to call it an unfair blanket statement.

I wasn't disputing any of your opinions. No worries, have a good day