Opioids Questions on efficiently dosing Tramadol.

[PontiffTheGreat]

So I understand the maximum recommended daily dosage is 4-500mg.
How best to dose though? As the sought out effects are mainly from Tramadol's metabolites such as o-dsmt. If one were to take a high dose in one go then the total level of o-dsmt in plasma would be lower than if the Tramadol had been incrementally dosed? Due to enzyme saturation and drug elimination.
I have access to 200mg ER.
Here are some potential dosing schedules seeking the best euphoria.
T - 0 : 200mg (Whole and intact)
T - 2 hours: 200mg (")
or
T - 0 : 200mg (Whole and intact)
T - 1 hours: 100mg (Intact half)
T - 2 hours: 100mg (Intact half)
or
T - 0 : 100mg (Intact half)
T - 1 hours: 100mg (Intact half)
T - 2 hours: 100mg (Intact half)
T - 3 hours: 100mg (Intact half)
Some lorazepam or bromazepam will be added to raise seizure threshold.

 

[Keif' Richards]

I feel shitty doing this, but this is like a copy/paste scenario in comparison to the last thread I looked at. The issue is man, that we are a forum that is dedicated to reducing harm. We have no principle objection to you getting high or how you do it, but there is only so much room available on the front pages of our HR forums and we need to "keep the line open" for people who are dealing with potentially life-threatening matters, not for folks who are just trying to get high. In short, the safety of the community is more important than one person being able to get higher and higher.

I know you're not being malicious, it's just that Other Drugs is really populated with threads that really have nothing to do with Harm Reduction.

That being said, what you're doing is actually pretty dangerous. What you're doing cannot really be encouraged because you're playing with fire. You're well aware of Tramadol's propensity for lowering the seizure threshold. I get what you're trying to do by countering this effect with Benzodiazepines, but what you're doing would be considered far from a science. Tramadol is an Opioid agonist, so combining with Benzodiazepines can easily lead to death.

What you're doing is juggling a lot of variables, all of which could lead to serious injury or death. It's just not a good idea to go about this. I mean, if you've already taken a huge overdose of Tramadol and feel like you might have a seizure, it might be more practical to then take a Benzodiazepine, but to actually put yourself in that position is just so much more danger than you need to put yourself in. Please reconsider.

 

[PontiffTheGreat]

I feel shitty doing this, but this is like a copy/paste scenario in comparison to the last thread I looked at. The issue is man, that we are a forum that is dedicated to reducing harm. We have no principle objection to you getting high or how you do it, but there is only so much room available on the front pages of our HR forums and we need to "keep the line open" for people who are dealing with potentially life-threatening matters, not for folks who are just trying to get high. In short, the safety of the community is more important than one person being able to get higher and higher.

I know you're not being malicious, it's just that Other Drugs is really populated with threads that really have nothing to do with Harm Reduction.

That being said, what you're doing is actually pretty dangerous. What you're doing cannot really be encouraged because you're playing with fire. You're well aware of Tramadol's propensity for lowering the seizure threshold. I get what you're trying to do by countering this effect with Benzodiazepines, but what you're doing would be considered far from a science. Tramadol is an Opioid agonist, so combining with Benzodiazepines can easily lead to death.

What you're doing is juggling a lot of variables, all of which could lead to serious injury or death. It's just not a good idea to go about this. I mean, if you've already taken a huge overdose of Tramadol and feel like you might have a seizure, it might be more practical to then take a Benzodiazepine, but to actually put yourself in that position is just so much more danger than you need to put yourself in. Please reconsider.

I understand your position. I also understand my post is well-within the genre of query that is allowed here. Where else? Pharmacology? You contradict yourself by claiming you are now filtering the board for only threatening situations yet you consider mine to be so, so thus why include a connotation for there not to have been a post at all?

In regards to my situation I will state that it is in fact, not a dangerous one. I did not include any further specifics (as the question is itself all there) but I have self-experimented with Tramadol up to 400mg before. Furthermore I have a mild opiate tolerance, and dosing a low therapeutic dose of a benzodiazepine in this case (considering Tramadol as a relatively weak opioid) would not be of issue. But would in fact impart a helpful increase in the seizure threshold. Contrary to your statements. I have experimented extensively with benzodiazepines and opioids, their potential interaction and how to approach it is not my question. It's about the pharmacology of Tramadol, how would varying a dosing schedule effect the metabolism and hence yes as you put it "how to get higher".

You implying my post is innapropriate, on BLUELIGHT, is like saying milk shouldn't be in the fridge. I understand your desire to prioritize posts for people in harmful situations but to claim this is the entire substance of the forums, surprisingly from a moderator, is pretty odd.

Where should this go then? Pharmacology? I don't see anything technically wrong with my post and am going to continue seeking advice from individuals here, so tell me how to proceed.

 

[Pumper18]

I don't know much about tramadol, just that it's a pain in the ass. The few times I used, I popped 200mg of tramadol and felt a decent, buzz, but any more than that is supposed to really increase your risk of having seizures. If you're using things to raise the seizure threshold, I'm not sure how high you can actually go.

 

[Lorne???]

IV Tramadol results in DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF M1 COMOARED TO ORAL; That was 100mg Tramado,iirc.
Of course,it still took awhile; c

 

[Lorne???]

My point is, your schedule is a bit, extreme, and just a pointless hassle.

Take your Tramadol in two divided doses;

Remember, Tramadol isn't fast acting; Tmax maybe 2 hours, while M1 takes 3-4hrs for peak opioid effects.

If tolerance ishighenough and you can take side effects, simply take a gram, 2-3hrs later, another half gram, or, if you dare a whole gram.

3A4 inhibitors can increase M1 concentrations.

3000mgis A LOT; it's a daily dose. It will work though can have bad side effects and lowers seizure threshold.

In any case just divide into two doses; and it will hit harder and a bit faster.

2 grams is your best bet, IMO

Good luck

 

[Kaden_Nite]

The way things work on paper is often far different from the way things work in practice. Rather than considering metabolic processes and plasma levels, why not just try a few different ways and see what works best for you?

Adding benzos to account for tramadol's potential to cause seizures isn't making things safer, especially if you are just pushing the tramadol dose higher.

I know that tramadol is different from other opioids in some ways, but it still matches many of the effects of other opioids and the same rules apply. Mixing with benzos can increase risk of respiratory depression, so if you feel like taking lorazepam is necessary to counter tramadol's side-effects, it might be worth looking at other options.

Tramadol can be unpredictable. People who have been taking it for a while have had seizures unexpectedly from doses below what they have taken before. 400mg a day is considered the maximum dose and that is for a good reason.

If tolerance ishighenough and you can take side effects, simply take a gram, 2-3hrs later, another half gram, or, if you dare a whole gram.
3A4 inhibitors can increase M1 concentrations.
3000mgis A LOT; it's a daily dose. It will work though can have bad side effects and lowers seizure threshold.
In any case just divide into two doses; and it will hit harder and a bit faster.
2 grams is your best bet, IMO

Lorne, I couldn't really grasp some of what you said, but telling someone to take a gram or two of tramadol is incredibly reckless advice. I think you've got a decimal point in the wrong place or something..

 

[Lorne???]

Yeah messed up a bit ?Meant a quarter gram to start, and, IF TOLERANT, another quarter gram 1.5-2hrs later, which is already 10 tablets, a LOT.

Though it would be like injecting 200-300mg(slower onset, less intense side effects)

500mg Tram is a lot, though.

And 1.2grams? That is 24 tablets!

Seriously, that is a lot

The max is like 400mg per day(recommended, you can usually double that w/ tolerance,not suggesting it)

Spreading it through the day only reduces (opioid) effects yet still has side effects.

If your experienced, a couple of Valium on hand is't a bad idea; they rapidly take effect and wear off quickly;

Though generally avoiding combos, especially benzo combios is not advisable

Crush up 200ng finely as possible to eliminate to CR(breaking in half won't do the trick, unless manufacturer doesn't care or something?) and take it, and another 200(100, personally) a couple hours if later if no problem;

Will maximize effects of M1; better yet, get a 3A4 inhibitor, it will prolong Tramadol itself, though allow more M1.

Be safe...

 

[PontiffTheGreat]

I winged it the other day and did the following:

T = 0: 200mg CR

+2 hrs: 200mg CR + 1.25mg lorazepam

+4.5 hrs: 200mg CR + 0.5mg lorazepam

+7.5 hrs: 140mg IR crushed and dissolved (drank at once)


By +6 hours I had a very mild opioid tingle but nothing I would even call a buzz. At +8 hours I was definitely high; opioid effects including euphoria but lacked that "glowing" vibe to most of the morphinian opiates I have used. I also had much more energy than on a typical morphinian opiate.

I know the above may have been somewhat reckless but I was determined to find the limits of this opiate. I had been using 40mg morphine rectal a day for a week or so prior so this may have had an effect on lowering my high.

My justifications for such a risky endeavour;

-The total opioid effect of the 750~mg of tramadol equated to just under my morphine equivalency (that I take all at once).

- Regarsing seizure threshold; lorazepam is a very effective anti convulsive and I have used higher doses of benzos with higher doses of opiates safely, so moderate therapeutic doses of lorazepam should addreas the seizure threshold issue and in case of warning signs I would have taken 3mg sublingually.

-Serotonergic effects; I am on 200mg of sertraline for anxiety, which is actually a good thing, my basal levels of serotonin are quite high, thus having skipped my dose of sertraline on the day, my baseline neurochemistry would hardly be negatively effected (if not welcomed) the SNRI properties of the tramadol. Because without the daily sertraline (and 25 hour elimination half life) a dip in basal serotonin would occur; potentially even compensated for by the tramadol.


Anyhow, all is well but the buzz was mediocre at best. I will be trying again today having not taken any opiatea yesterday.

 

[Lorne???]

Waiting 7.5hrs is unnecessary. Again, it can take 3-4 hours for it's opioid metabolite, M1, to reach peak plasma levels/effect. Even Tramadol itself takes 1.5-2hours to to peak.

And it's CR. This may make it tad a safer/ reduce side effects, though if you were fine before, you'd get better effects from a larger initial dose, like 300 or so CR to start

 

[Keif' Richards]

I understand your position. I also understand my post is well-within the genre of query that is allowed here. Where else? Pharmacology? You contradict yourself by claiming you are now filtering the board for only threatening situations yet you consider mine to be so, so thus why include a connotation for there not to have been a post at all?

In regards to my situation I will state that it is in fact, not a dangerous one. I did not include any further specifics (as the question is itself all there) but I have self-experimented with Tramadol up to 400mg before. Furthermore I have a mild opiate tolerance, and dosing a low therapeutic dose of a benzodiazepine in this case (considering Tramadol as a relatively weak opioid) would not be of issue. But would in fact impart a helpful increase in the seizure threshold. Contrary to your statements. I have experimented extensively with benzodiazepines and opioids, their potential interaction and how to approach it is not my question. It's about the pharmacology of Tramadol, how would varying a dosing schedule effect the metabolism and hence yes as you put it "how to get higher".

You implying my post is innapropriate, on BLUELIGHT, is like saying milk shouldn't be in the fridge. I understand your desire to prioritize posts for people in harmful situations but to claim this is the entire substance of the forums, surprisingly from a moderator, is pretty odd.

Where should this go then? Pharmacology? I don't see anything technically wrong with my post and am going to continue seeking advice from individuals here, so tell me how to proceed.

Don't be upset man. I tried to be as polite as possible. In principle, people who are facing potentially harmful situations already are more deserving of our attention than you. I get that you don't understand, but there are people in situations who genuinely need help. You are simply trying to get as high as possible and you're claiming that this is just as important. This is not the same as "Can I take 1mg of Alprazolam with a couple beers?", we are dealing with a high likelihood for misadventure here. You're saying, "I know that this causes seizures all the time, but I'm gonna play around with it anyway, and you're all going to help me!".

I think the principle that you're failing to understand is that you are making a decision in which you are deliberately putting yourself in a position in which you know that there is a very high potential for a negative outcome. You'll notice that I didn't call for your thread to be closed man. I just want you to consider the fact that you wanting to get high is just not as important as people who are dealing with potentially life threatening situations. Try to understand that it's a community.

I'm really hoping that you're not one of these people who takes our administrative duties personally. It's literally like bookkeeping to us and sometimes people personify us as if we're the 3rd Reich trying to silence the French Resistance. We are volunteers and we are just trying to do our best. If you ever have a problem with what we say or do, you are totally welcome to actually approach us about it. This is preferred, because, I don't know the fuck why, grudges develop very quickly here on Bluelight. We all need to try to work together and be kind and cordial.

I am sorry if I hurt your feelings or if you think I've unnecessarily chastised you.

 

[Chunkybutt647]

Im sorry but i always see or hear things like this. You should not post regiments that get you high. You have to remember that seems to work for you but the world is very diverse with many DIFFERENT people. Big, small, heavy, tiny. This may be great for you but will probably hurt or kill others. Just like i have a high tolerance to many things that will put people to shame but it doesnt work for everyone. And hate to say it, posting something like that and someone dies, you could be at fault. You are not a doctor or probably have any medical experience so i would refrain from posting crap like that.