Stimulants questions about meth after-effect

[Mmm2223]

I smoked ice for the first time yesterday after having taken ecstasy on the day before. I was kinda having an after-high from ecstasy when swim was smoking ice. I felt more conscious and horny at first after smoking the ice, and the after effect of MDMA seemed to have completely gone, but after around like 4-5 hours I starts to get more anxious, so I decided to smoke some pot to calm my nerve down, but I starts to feel very uncomfortable.

the after effect of ecstasy came back and was like trying to drag my brain down to a more depressed state whilst the pot was trying to lift the mood up. I felt like the brain is being dragged in 2 opposite directions and it was uncomfortable, whilst the ice may have sorta triggered some nerves to cause back and neck pain.

I then went to sleep after the pot. the next day I got up and swim became emotionless. like normally things that would make me feel good is no longer having an effect on me, I also didn't feel annoyed by things that normally makes me to. (I'm normally a very emotional person, and is thought to have moderate anxiety and very mild depression),


I then did some research online and saw that meth actually drains the dopamine stored in the brain neurons. I suggested that the neurons may requires time to reproduce the dopamine again and the dopamine receptors would become desensitized for a while before I can get back to normal again and therefore he is currently in this state of mind.

I like this state of mind a lot because I has been experiencing the anxiety and depression since I was young, I wants to ask 4 questions

1.) Is this state of mind effect caused by all the drugs combined or just ice?

2.) How long would this after-effect state of mind be lasting for?

3.) Is there anyway to continue the meth use and thus swim can continuous getting this numb emotion without harming the brain with long-term use?

4.) I don't enjoy the effect of ice as much as I enjoys this after-effect of ice, would this also build up an addiction to me to become an ice abuser?

thanks you

 

[UrNeighbrhoodPharm]

Basically you were having acute amphetamine withdrawal, which in my experience is the first day of not using. Meth and ecstasy [mdMA] both contain meth-amphetamine. so basically you were just really really drained. I was an extremely heavy user and I can tell you that after years of meth use it will destroy your brain and do perminate damage and Xtc is even worse for your brain. Sorry I couldn't be of more help I know that isn't the answer you wanted, have a good one man

 

[Mmm2223]

Thanks for replying and shared your experience to me. I think I may just be the odd one out who likes the withdrawal effect instead of the increased consciousness.

With mdma alone it doesn't give me such an emotionless after-effect than meth but instead, it makes me feel sad.

I think it's because that I am being bothered by depression and anxiety for years. This emotionless day gave me a rest from all the ups and downs I experienced through all the years.

 

[InterestingFACT]

If you really think that the post-dopaminergic/rebound state is what you enjoy, then ask your doctor about seroquel or olanzapine or another antidopaminergic (though withbselectivity towards presynaptic receptor density) sedative/atypical antipsychotics. Or reserpine--it actually depletes monoaminergic axon terminal buttons by irreversibly blocking VMAT.

Personally I'm doubtful. Amphetamines have a longish half life ( ~11 hours) and you're still holding onto significant plasma concentrations of drug after the subjective peak "high" has faded. What you're probably enjoying is the post-acute effect of lower concentrations of the drug itself--increased tonic release over baseline, but reduced release responsive to stimuli. You might get this effect from long term administration of a low dose of a stimulant (though I would not recommend meth for this job).

If you're also seriously looking for something that--as you seem to describe--dulls your emotional extremes, both positive and negative--then I hope you've at least considered the typical set of drugs intended to have this effect--namely: lithium, lamictal, valproic acid.

Additionally, 5ht1 agonists like buspirone (prescription med), l-theanine (supplement, also found in green tea), or CBD-heavy strains of cannabis are also known to have a mood-stabilizing, emotionally "muting" effect.

Some people with bipolar or anxious/manic depression do respond well to (carefully monitored, low-dose) stimulant treatment. However, self-medication with methamphetamine is very likely not the answer. Consider asking your doctor about a low dose focalin prescription (and methylphenidate turns you into a zombie like no other stimulant can, trust me) or --maybe-- a low dose Vyvanse prescription; though I reall don't think amphetamines are what you're really lookin for, if your assessment of what attracted you about this experience is honest and accurate.

 

[Ksa]

Basically you were having acute amphetamine withdrawal, which in my experience is the first day of not using. Meth and ecstasy [mdMA] both contain meth-amphetamine. so basically you were just really really drained. I was an extremely heavy user and I can tell you that after years of meth use it will destroy your brain and do perminate damage and Xtc is even worse for your brain. Sorry I couldn't be of more help I know that isn't the answer you wanted, have a good one man

You have a chocolate bar containing 30,000 tablets. I refer to this as your vital energy. Non-drug users eat 1 tablet a day. Meth users can binge on 7 tablets a day. By doing that, you aren't doing permanent damage, you're only burning the vital energy allocated to you by your DNA faster. Energetically speaking you age faster. Of course, when you look at what's left of the chocolate bar, there is an apparent "permanent damage" but it is only your perception. When you look deeper you realize that it is YOU who ate the chocolate and no permanent damage ever occurred.

 

[InterestingFACT]

You have a chocolate bar containing 30,000 tablets. I refer to this as your vital energy. Non-drug users eat 1 tablet a day. Meth users can binge on 7 tablets a day. By doing that, you aren't doing permanent damage, you're only burning the vital energy allocated to you by your DNA faster. Energetically speaking you age faster. Of course, when you look at what's left of the chocolate bar, there is an apparent "permanent damage" but it is only your perception. When you look deeper you realize that it is YOU who ate the chocolate and no permanent damage ever occurred.

This sounds like a lot of nonsense to me.

Methamphetamine abuse has been linked to persistent cognitive and emotional deficits in addict and post-addict populations. It's also a demonstrated neurotoxin in the lab. The extent of its neurotoxicity is, of course, dose-dependent, but unlike conventional amphetamine, there appears to be no lower limit below which no neurotoxic damage accumulates. So it *is* doing damage--every time you use it. And the extent of that damage is going to be dependent on a lot of factors--how much you used, how you took care of sleep and diet while using, how you maintained cardio-vascular fitness while using, etc. etc.

Most of these factors are shared with amphetamine. Because the fact is, even many therapeutic doses of amphetamine are sufficiently high to cause related--though slightly distinct--patterns of neurotoxicity. And the the long-term impact of this observed oxidative toxicity of both amphetamine and methamphetamine on total cognition isn't very clear. The strongest evidence of long-term damage appears in the increased risk of Parkinsonism and Parkinsonian movement ticks among elderly former amphetamine users--documentable at autopsy by increased incidence of lewy bodies and particularly low concentrations of surviving dopaminergic neurons in the substantia nigra.

Oxidative toxicity is not merely a case of "speeding up" your "vital energy consumption". Amphetamines work like endogenous TAAR1 agonists to trigger sudden synaptic excitability. This is inherently a process which causes oxidative stress. The more stress that occurs, the more severe the damage is, the more likely that a cell will die which would have otherwise lived on.

 

[Ksa]

This sounds like a lot of nonsense to me.

Methamphetamine abuse has been linked to persistent cognitive and emotional deficits in addict and post-addict populations. It's also a demonstrated neurotoxin in the lab. The extent of its neurotoxicity is, of course, dose-dependent, but unlike conventional amphetamine, there appears to be no lower limit below which no neurotoxic damage accumulates. So it *is* doing damage--every time you use it. And the extent of that damage is going to be dependent on a lot of factors--how much you used, how you took care of sleep and diet while using, how you maintained cardio-vascular fitness while using, etc. etc.

Most of these factors are shared with amphetamine. Because the fact is, even many therapeutic doses of amphetamine are sufficiently high to cause related--though slightly distinct--patterns of neurotoxicity. And the the long-term impact of this observed oxidative toxicity of both amphetamine and methamphetamine on total cognition isn't very clear. The strongest evidence of long-term damage appears in the increased risk of Parkinsonism and Parkinsonian movement ticks among elderly former amphetamine users--documentable at autopsy by increased incidence of lewy bodies and particularly low concentrations of surviving dopaminergic neurons in the substantia nigra.

Oxidative toxicity is not merely a case of "speeding up" your "vital energy consumption". Amphetamines work like endogenous TAAR1 agonists to trigger sudden synaptic excitability. This is inherently a process which causes oxidative stress. The more stress that occurs, the more severe the damage is, the more likely that a cell will die which would have otherwise lived on.

If it's doing damage, then enjoying sex also does the same type of damage and in fact anything you enjoy in life is also neurotoxic. The problem is your definition of toxic. In that way, life is toxic because it is a degenerative process. It is not toxic in the way mercury or polonium is toxic.

I don't buy the argument that pleasure is toxic and pain/work supports life, that's communist thinking, belongs in Cuba. Dopaminergic neurons are used to produce pleasure and also motor work. So let's work our bodies in a shipping dock or work hard without vacations because pleasure is toxic to those neurons. let's be serious.

If I had a choice, none of these neurons would perish to anything else but pleasure. And the stress you speak of only occurs if no pleasure is triggered during use of amphetamines. Pleasure relieves all oxidative stress from amphetamine use. If you were tied to a chair for 8 hours while playboys strip in front of you, you would experience that same TAAR1 oxidative stress you speak of because you aren't fulfilling something nature urges you to fulfill.

 

[ovo1024]

I also really enjoy this certain state of mind you're talking about, I get high on meth about once A week, and noticed once the 36 hour mark hits and I'm coming down I get into this emotionless state where my normal anxiety and thoughts are non existent. I can walk around town all day without a care in the world as opposed to when I'm sober. Haha its very interesting to me

 

[Ksa]

^ When you trully understand life, when you truly understand what this whole thing really is, you become death. Death is the integral understanding of life. Because when you understand life, in it's true nature, you understand that it's purpose is to end. This is it's true beauty, it's most beautiful facade. When you feel pleasure, it's actually life slipping through your hands. Pleasure means fulfilling the purpose of life which is to end. Pain means, being stubborn and trying to delay the inevitable.

When you feel that relief after an amphetamine use, it's because you understood that, or at least you feel like you understood it. I understood it so often and so well that now I'm even able to put it into words for other people to read.

 

[Mmm2223]

Thanks for the more scientific response. I also don't think medicating myself with meth would be a good idea coz of its side effect like rotting teeth. The after-effect didn't last long (probably only around like 11hrs) and I miss that state of mind ever since I stopped having it. But at the same time I still enjoyed having normal emotions back.

I think I'm going to do meth again for the after effect to see if I really liked it before I make any more decisions on that. And if I really decide to do it I'll have a talk with a doctor about it and use safer alternatives. Thanks!

 

[Mmm2223]

I also really enjoy this certain state of mind you're talking about, I get high on meth about once A week, and noticed once the 36 hour mark hits and I'm coming down I get into this emotionless state where my normal anxiety and thoughts are non existent. I can walk around town all day without a care in the world as opposed to when I'm sober. Haha its very interesting to me

The effect came to me after 18 hours after I smoked the first dose. I never thought I would enjoy it so much. Like normally with my anxiety I would have a lot of thoughts that I can't control, and I'd respond to those thoughts like I'm talking to myself. Like I could never open up and be not scared in front of people. But yesterday with that certain state of mind, I felt free..... Like no more random thoughts in the head and no more responses to my own mind saying that I don't have to be scared. Also I didn't get nervous about how people would respond and judge me. It's like a relieve that I would never expect myself to get in a lifetime (and now finally I understand why the psychotherapist told me when I was younger that my anxiety will never be gone, assuming that I'd never try meth)

 

[ebone38]

I might not be scientifictally right.But from my experience Know thyself ,expand youre innerthoughts, Dont get so stuck on certain things.Because being on ICE .MAKES YOU MINDFUK.Excuse my french.wHAT Im saying is you'll know youre self "weakness"and "STRENGTHS". I used it for getting job done.tHINKINg "out of the box" may lead to something that you never thought you could do.Good or Bad.

 

[Mmm2223]

If you really think that the post-dopaminergic/rebound state is what you enjoy, then ask your doctor about seroquel or olanzapine or another antidopaminergic (though withbselectivity towards presynaptic receptor density) sedative/atypical antipsychotics. Or reserpine--it actually depletes monoaminergic axon terminal buttons by irreversibly blocking VMAT.

Personally I'm doubtful. Amphetamines have a longish half life ( ~11 hours) and you're still holding onto significant plasma concentrations of drug after the subjective peak "high" has faded. What you're probably enjoying is the post-acute effect of lower concentrations of the drug itself--increased tonic release over baseline, but reduced release responsive to stimuli. You might get this effect from long term administration of a low dose of a stimulant (though I would not recommend meth for this job).

If you're also seriously looking for something that--as you seem to describe--dulls your emotional extremes, both positive and negative--then I hope you've at least considered the typical set of drugs intended to have this effect--namely: lithium, lamictal, valproic acid.

Additionally, 5ht1 agonists like buspirone (prescription med), l-theanine (supplement, also found in green tea), or CBD-heavy strains of cannabis are also known to have a mood-stabilizing, emotionally "muting" effect.

Some people with bipolar or anxious/manic depression do respond well to (carefully monitored, low-dose) stimulant treatment. However, self-medication with methamphetamine is very likely not the answer. Consider asking your doctor about a low dose focalin prescription (and methylphenidate turns you into a zombie like no other stimulant can, trust me) or --maybe-- a low dose Vyvanse prescription; though I reall don't think amphetamines are what you're really lookin for, if your assessment of what attracted you about this experience is honest and accurate.

Thanks for the more scientific response. I also don't think medicating myself with meth would be a good idea coz of its side effect like rotting teeth. The after-effect didn't last long (probably only around like 11hrs) and I miss that state of mind ever since I stopped having it. But at the same time I still enjoyed having normal emotions back.

I think I'm going to do meth again for the after effect to see if I really liked it before I make any more decisions on that. And if I really decide to do it I'll have a talk with a doctor about it and use safer alternatives. Thanks!

 

[Ksa]

Thanks for the more scientific response. I also don't think medicating myself with meth would be a good idea coz of its side effect like rotting teeth. The after-effect didn't last long (probably only around like 11hrs) and I miss that state of mind ever since I stopped having it. But at the same time I still enjoyed having normal emotions back.

I think I'm going to do meth again for the after effect to see if I really liked it before I make any more decisions on that. And if I really decide to do it I'll have a talk with a doctor about it and use safer alternatives. Thanks!

Rotting teeth is not a side effect of meth, but of the contaminants of meth. If your powder contains nothing else but meth and you maintain a healthy diet, you can do meth until you're 90, provided your dose never brings your heart rate above 105.

 

[InterestingFACT]

Rotting teeth is not a side effect of meth, but of the contaminants of meth. If your powder contains nothing else but meth and you maintain a healthy diet, you can do meth until you're 90, provided your dose never brings your heart rate above 105.

While rotting teeth certainly isn't an "inevitable" result of methamphetamine use, it is absolutely a side effect of meth. Although excessive acid is likely added during the recrystallization/salting out of methamphetamine base from solution in a nonpolar solvent during underground manufacture, the pH of the final product is still probably higher than most sodas you drink. Any other contaminants or impurities consumed alongside the active product likely play very little or no role in causing meth mouth. Also, while smoking meth probably does additional damage, it's not the main cause, as is commonly believed.

Methamphetamine's action on monoamine transporters is directly to blame: it causes dry mouth, and partially suppresses the sensations of thirst and hunger. It also tends to make people skip out on sleeping, and with that comes a tendency to skip out on the "daily routines" like brushing teeth, showering, etc.

This should be all self-evident: Methamphetamine was originally marketed as a decongestant, before quickly expanding to include indications for appetite suppression/weight loss, and then for depression/low energy in bored housewives. Like pseudoephedrine, it dries you out.

This is not a problem limited to methamphetamine, but rather is endemic to all stimulant drugs. And yes, it's possible to entirely avoid, or at least minimize the severity of, consequences to your teeth, skin, and hair, by setting, and maintaining, high standards for oral/cosmetic/personal cleanliness, and maintaining a healthy diet and sleep hygiene. The meth mouth stereotype is partially true, but also partially biased by the disproportionate use of meth in poor, rural communities, where access to dental care is limited, and by the disproportionate rate of heavy abuse and/or self-destructive lifestyle habits among meth users compared to users of prescription stimulants.

Not every meth user has meth mouth, and plenty of adderall users have poor oral hygiene as well. And if you look across the Atlantic, amphetamine sulfate caused all the same problems in Europe that meth does here.

 

[Ksa]

^ This is aggravated by the fact that if you inject high doses, your jaws tighten so hard your teeth could simply break, and then no tooth decay is needed for your mouth to be destroyed. Although I sympathize with oral meth users I do regard the practice of injecting high doses of meth as being barbaric.