Misc Question for tobacco addicts about the addictiveness of tobacco

[Swimmingdancer]

Let's say tobacco was just as expensive and difficult to acquire as heroin or cocaine. Would you continue to use tobacco?

It's impossible to know for sure what we would do, but I do know that my smoking has not decreased as cigarettes have become substantially more expensive. And I don't know anyone who actually quit due to cigarettes getting pricier, (people just said saving money would be an added bonus). Hell, many homeless people smoke. If the price of cigarettes was suddenly 5 times what it is now I'm sure that would help spur me on to smoke a lot less or quit, since the effects do not seem worth it. But heroin isn't worth spending an ungodly amount of money per day on either (I was easily spending over 30 times what I currently spend on cigarettes with my heroin tolerance), and the reason I quit heroin was not because of the cost.

As for tobacco being more readily available, I do think that is a big factor. Not the be-all and end-all, since I smoked when I was too young to buy cigarettes and it was kind of an ordeal getting them and I had to deal with "shady people", but still a big factor. If I could walk into a store 100 ft away from my door and buy heroin over the counter I think I would have a very hard time getting clean. Wait, I could actually do that from a shady street dealer (maybe a couple extra hundred feet), but I mean if I could buy heroin that was assured to be of good quality and where I was assured of not being ripped off, I think that would be too big of a temptation for me in times of weakness.

But I do not think that heroin being illegal and expensive and more difficult to safely get has reduced the numbers of people starting it or using it.

and the short term consequences are so low?

I think this a key factor. Adverse consequences from smoking are much more subtle and take much longer to become noticeable, so it's easy to feel like they aren't real. Whereas most people addicted to drugs like heroin or cocaine for an equivalent length of time can see (even if some choose to ignore them) the very real consequences to their life and health, and can feel like a slave to the drug, the withdrawal symptoms are much more severe, etc.

In countries where packs cost almost <no price discussion> dollars and sometimes more, people are more conservative with their cigarette smoking. In countries where tobacco costs a dollar, people smoke them excessively.

I don't think that shows causation though. I think a big part of it is cultural differences and attitudes towards smoking and such. When I travelled to a country where cigarettes were 1/10th the price they are at home, I didn't smoke any more than usual. Perhaps it could be the other way around, countries where everyone smokes would never put up with high cigarette prices?

 

[liftedgift]

I really don't understand when people say tobacco is as addictive or even more addictive than heroin. I have had a smoking habit but I always regret smoking and unlike other drugs once I go a few days without it the mental addiction is completely gone and actually for me my mind remembers how nasty they are.

 

[pasha]

I don't think that shows causation though. I think a big part of it is cultural differences and attitudes towards smoking and such. When I travelled to a country where cigarettes were 1/10th the price they are at home, I didn't smoke any more than usual. Perhaps it could be the other way around, countries where everyone smokes would never put up with high cigarette prices?

Well initially as I said it was an observation. I looked into it however. In Russia the price of cigarettes are very very low. Look it up for more detail. This could be why they have the highest prevalence of male smoking in the world. I actually don't see how there couldn't be a causal relationship, if you eat an expensive hamburger, you're going to have it less than the cheap hamburger, if you live in a country where gas is very expansive, chances are you're going to use different methods of transports, and drive less often, etc. As for visiting somewhere and not smoking more, well it's a visit, you're already accustomed to smoking x amount, it's not going to change drastically in a few days, weeks, or a month. Also, it's not really peoples decision how much cigarettes cost, it's the government who dictates that, and apparently their plan to tax cigarettes in order to reduce smoking has paid off.

Here are some interesting findings with a quick search:

While smoking rates have leveled off or declined in developed nations, they continue to rise in developing parts of the world. Smoking rates in the United States have dropped by half from 1965 to 2006 falling from 42% to 20.8% of adults. In the developing world, tobacco consumption is rising by 3.4% per year.

It has been shown that higher prices for cigarettes discourage smoking. Every 10 percent increase in the price of cigarettes reduced youth smoking by about seven percent and overall cigarette consumption by about four percent.[43] Thus increased cigarette taxes are proposed as a means to reduce smoking.

Those are some significant drops in cigarette consumptions, indicating a causal relationship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigarette

 

[Swimmingdancer]

if you live in a country where gas is very expansive, chances are you're going to use different methods of transports, and drive less often

No. The US has high gas prices and very high consumption of gasoline per person, avg milage driven per day person etc. Belgium on the other hand has low gas prices and low consumption of gasoline per person, milage driven per person etc. Not saying that price isn't a factor in things (in some places) but I don't feel you can say correlation = causation just because it seems intuitive.

Those are some significant drops in cigarette consumptions, indicating a causal relationship.

Except that it could be due to many other factors, like those places doing a lot of other stuff to reduce smoking (changing societal attitudes so it's not cool or easy to smoke, making people very aware that smoking is harmful to health, making cigarettes very difficult for teens to get, persecuting smokers by banning smoking in public places [can you tell I am bitter about this, you can't even smoke in your car if you're driving through a park where I live, and pretty much anywhere on the sidewalk in business/retail areas is technically illegal but not really enforced ATM] and making them a target of harsh judgment, fear-mongering about second-hand smoke, etc, lol). I'm not saying that I believe cost of cigarettes isn't a factor in smoking rates at all, just that there is no proof it's the main one IMO

 

[pasha]

I'm not disagreeing with you that culture and tradition play a major factor, it's just that sometimes the government has big hand in deciding those things.

As far as gas consumptions goes, US gas consumption has been declining since the 1970's by up to 4,000 barrels per person until the mid 1980's, with a slow incline between then and 2008 and in its highest period reaching 2,000 barrels less than in the 1970's. In the last 5 years, gas consumption has fell in the US, in correlation to rising taxes. In the EU, gas prices are up to several times fold that of the US, and gas consumption is more than half per person. In the top ten nations of oil consumption per capita, you have nations such as Libya, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Qatar where gas is the cheapest in the world.

Correlation does not always imply causation as many factors can be at play, but it does lead to investigation in causation using logic rather than intuition.

In terms of solid proof regarding causation between cigarette consumption and prices, I did a quick search and found at least half a dozen studies indicating one, other then the studies on the wikipedia page. Other factors make it improbable to fully prove causation, any researcher or statistician would say that is true in agreement with you. What all of them attempt to do though is make logical implications.