Question for the "technologically gifted"...

[Pleonastic]

OK. I want my own computer. I'm currently living at home and have to share the family computer - which on one hand is good because we've got cable internet and I ain't paying for it, but on the other hand it's bad because if my sister grabs it before I do then I might have to wait anything up to 6 hours to get a go. And that's not half as bad as when mum decides that she want's to break her stupidly high Snood record...

So I'm thinking of buying my own computer. I've got a guy who puts them together and can get me a top shelf one for pretty much cost price which is good... but my problem is the internet. I don't want to go back to dialup if I can avoid it, and I especially don't want to have to pay for my own provider!!!
What I had in mind ideally was networking the family computer and my computer in some way so that my computer had access to the cable internet, but aside from that they were still basically two stand-alone machines... what I want to know is if this is possible? Would I need a third computer to act as the server for the internet, and if so what's the cheapest model I could get away with?
The family computer is a Pentium III, 200Mhtz (I think) with 64MB of RAM, running Windows 98... I have access to pretty much whatever operating system I want (this guy that sells computers is dodgey enough for that), and he'd be able to set it all up for me too so I don't have to worry about the fact that I don't have a friggen clue...

So... any advice from the computer geniuses amongst you? Thanks heaps in advance!

 

[corch]

Well....depending on your operating system...ll you need is 2 network cards, one in eithr PC, and a crossover network cable (the guy in the store will know what that is). Windows 98 2nd ed has 'internet connection sharing' tho it is kinda dodgy. Windows 2000/xp have very good internet connection sharing. NT has it but it will require some technical tweaking beyond the scope of what i can descrive here.
The alternative is to geta program like SyGate, which will do the connection sharing for you if you os doesnt support it.
Then basicly...if yur computer friend is reasonably cluey, all you need to do is plug the 2 network cards together with the cross over cable and give them each an ip address (prefferably private address space) and set up internet connectin sharing and youre good to go.
The only thing is this will set up a windows networking network also...but it you dont have any file shares on your pc you should be fine.
C.
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"go find me a quarter pounder"

 

[pundi]

It can be done - it should be done...
Check out the cableguys website - it's a little all over the place but all the info is there.
It'll cost you an extra $40-80 for a couple of network cards and a crossover cable. The other option is to grab a router which does most of the work for you - i'm pretty sure they go for about $400.
I'd recommend having the gateway computer be the one which is most likely to be turned on - prefereably the faster one. Have fun...
Yeah and what corch said

 

[j_swift]

there are probably ppl who do this for a living on this site who probably know this backwards.
i did manage to get internet connection sharing half working over at element_eds place.
i used a program called winroute which connected the local network(my comp and elements) to his cable connection.
in terms of hardware you'll need two network cards for the computer thats connected to the cable connection(either computer will work) and one network card for the computer you want to share the net connection. i think you can get cards for about $20 these days.
but once we had the sharing set up we realised that we only had one copy of the half life CD key!!!
BAH!

 

[Baba_ORiley]

Its possible but don't expect the internet speed of the second computer to be the same as the first with the cable conection.

 

[MíkeySåmmy]

find someone who can program in linux.

thats what i did.

 

[-Thoth]

Yes, a linux guru is handy for this one... I tried to do it myself and nearly reprogrammed the comp with an axe after some mild frustration. Leave it to the experts... Ruski could probably sort cha out, that wily computer criminal...

 

[vurtomatic]

u can spend aprrox. $175 (this price was from a window display along elizabeth st near jb hi-fi) and get a netgear router which will do the internet access sharing for u, or as someone suggested (which is what im running at home right now), use Internet Connection Sharing in win2k (for 2 comps) which allows the client computer to access the net, run icq n stuff... but certain features such as running an ftp server is a hassle to setup in ICS.
or u can go the *nux way as mikey suggested; which would still involve a very basic computer to act as a gateway, which means having to spend money anyway.
i'd get the router if i can spare the cash, ICS does the job but anything beyond the usual net capabilities, it sux.
having the router allows u to attach other computers to it too if u ever get more than 2... a simple router like the one i suggested usually has 5 ports.
hope this helped.
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[a young boy puts a feather into his mouth -jeff noon] | [vurtopia]
-
[applesbliss] sucks to be us
[vurtomatic] yeah... who would wanna be us
[vurtomatic] we sit infront of the comp chatting n wasting our lives away
[vurtomatic] waiting for the next good tune to come along
[vurtomatic] no glamour in that
[applesbliss] we're tune junkies

 

[Pleonastic]

Thanks guys!!! You all rock!

OK, now let me see if I'm following (watch me show my ignorance here

)...
From what I gather I can get some sort of contraption that connects to the modem and lets me plug more than one computer into it? Or have I missed the point with the whole router thing? Another factor is that my room is a fair way from the computer room, so there's be a decent length of cable going to my computer. Is this going to affect speed at all?
If I can avoid it I'd like to modify the family computer as little as possible, because I've broken it before and Dad's not a huge fan of me playing with it much anymore!

So if there's a way of simply splitting the cable modem two ways then I'd probably go for that... can this be done?
Thanks again!!!

 

[danslave]

well, im a bit unsure about this, but a hub (cheap one goes for less than 50 bucks, i dont know what you need a router for, i dont think its needed at all) would work for that,
adsl isnt it? mate of mine used to plug his adsl modem into the hub, then have both his computers plugged into that, only problem is he was only able to connect one at a time i think (might be some tricks you can use to get both going, but yeah)
btw, to the people who mentioned the router, one question... why? it seems like a mega overkill,

 

[danslave]

oh yeah, i forgot to mention the UTP, (network cable) it is good up to 70 meters, and useable up to 100, so unless you have a really BIG house, you dont need to worry about it

 

[-Thoth]

You basically need a router, because two computers connected to a hub would have unique IP's to your provider, so you cant use the internet at the same time on the both of them without shelling out on an extra account. The router arangement sneakily gets around this, and works as a gateway through which you can share one internet connection across your network.

 

[Tarsarlan]

If you can afford a router, or your family are willing to pay for it, then that would be the best way to go... Two main reasons for this IMFHO, a) you won't have to do much to your family's comp and b) you get better throughput to your computer (good ol' switches make sure you get as much bandwidth as possible, which is the whole 512k if the other comp isn't doing anything... oh hang on, did someone say ADSL? ...What's the rating? 256/64? What's telstra doing these days... Not capping it like cable I hope...)
A router would be better than Linux because you just have a little box, rather than a whole computer... and its easier to setup... prolly cheaper too, unless you can get a little second hand computer
And this way you don't need an extra nic
Otherwise get an extra nic and a switching hub, setup the family comp. with 2k or XP (i'd go with XP only 'cos it's design will impress ya parents

) and setup connection sharing...
The length of the cable won't affect the speed, not in a normal sized house anyway... (hehe yep what danslave said

) And yeah, you got the idea of what the router does right...
And you can easily get around not having a router, but its the easiest and most effective way of getting a small network sharing an internet connection as long as you can afford the router... And most have built in firewalls... (should we not bring up firewalls at this point? prolly a good idea...)
[This message has been edited by Tarsarlan (edited 13 October 2001).]

 

[pundi]

It all depends on how much stuffing around you want to do.
If you're prepared to rip out your hair, have no net access for some time and can be stuffed - take the linux option. You'll learn a shiteload and actually like command prompts at the end of it.. An old pentium 200 (not pentium 2/3) will do fine as a gateway under linux..
If you are willing to stuff around for a while with windoze settings then the cheapest option is setting up one of your comps with 2 network cards and do it that way. It will probably be the least stable option, and you'll probably be prepared to kill any microsoft executive at the end of it..
The router is the neatest option, hell you can purchase them preprogrammed to your exact task. I'm pretty sure you'll have to spend upwards of $300 to get one that will do your task but it will do it in style. You will however learn little from the experience...
Then there is the firewall consideration. This is the filtering that occurs between the internet and your computers as to what can get in and out. Hackers love an unfirewalled computer - so it's almost a must on a cable connection. Under linux it will be the most adaptable (and safe if you make it so) but will require extreme amounts of stuffing around. The windows option is as easy as installing some appropriate software - but you'll have less flexibility. Good routers will already have decent firewalls installed and would normally be safe from the time you open the box.
If you've got the dollars - take the router.
If you want the cheap option - go the internet sharing option under microsoft.
If you want to learn something - take the linux option.
Goodluck

 

[ful_sik_trippa]

Im pretty sure windows XP will allow multiple users on a single connection.
I know it can be done in Linux, but how you'd do it, i have no idea.
good luck

 

[swipe]

i'm on bigpond cable and use an old 486 running smoothwall to share the connection. there is a guide here on how to set it up; it's not all that difficult and i'll be happy to *try* and help you out with any problems you may have...

 

[swipe]

also, if you are on bpa you can get a second user account for $10 a month. you could then get away with just purchasing two network cards, cabling and a cheap hub. simply plug the cable modem into the hubs uplink port, the two computers into the hub and load the bigpond log-in software on both machines

 

[Nikon]

Swipes right
thats how my cable works, which im about to loose.....
ohh well im ganna swap over to optus cable which is mucho fast
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"It ain't over till the last record spins."

 

[MellowFellow]

<--- Linux guy

basically what pundi said..
anything (even a 286) is fast enough to run linux as a gateway machine. we've got a 286 at work as a gateway + firewall and it does a fine job of handling data up to about 1.5Meg a second (3 times the max a cable modem can do).
so the linux option's about $50 more than using winblows connection sharing and it means that you don't have to turn on both computers to use the net. main problem is finding a geek to set it up for you.
the router is the easiest option, but it's also expensive. i generally wouldn't recommend this for personal use, it's a waste of money.
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Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.

 

[Pleonastic]

Hmmmmm... decisions, decisions...

My computer guy told me tonight about the problem that a router would have running Telstra Cable on two computers. He said that because you need to log in with a user name and password with Telstra then the router wouldn't be able to handle it (although he also admited he wasn't that good with routers having never used one).
But this router idea does sound good because it'd be nice and neat, and I also wouldn't need a third computer. I was also hoping to avoid having to leave the family computer turned on all the time if I could avoid it, which kind of rules out the XP server idea. If I did however want to go for an old 486 gateway computer, what would be running linux? Would it just be the 486, or would I need linux on all the machines? And where does windows fit into the equation? Because the family sure as hell aren't going to want to use linux!
So anyway, now what I'm thinking is that I need to figure out some way to get out of the contract with Telstra so I can switch to Optus! It dawned on me tonight that when you get Optus Cable they also throw in free phone line rental for a year (which just so happens to match the cost of cable instalation) so I should be able to convince Dad that it's worth the swap... what I need though are some good excuses or tips and tricks on what to say to convince Telstra to let us out of the contract without us having to pay anything. If I whinge and bitch about how crap their service has been recently I might have a chance (international web surfing has been fucked for about 2 weeks now).
Oh, and once again, thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond to this!

[This message has been edited by Pleonastic (edited 14 October 2001).]