FionaCassidy
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2013
- Messages
- 3
Hola peeps. I have googled the sh*t outta this and I am aware there are tons of extraction methods but I can't make sense of it all and much of it is quite complex for what I am trying to accomplish, which is simply an extraction for buccal or nasal use, (not IV) Also, I have tried several of these extractions and wasted too many patches not being able to come out with any viable results. I am not too keen on using heat, and it seems that Duragesic brand matrix patches should be able to be extracted with isopropyl alcohol (IPA), in theory.
Just as a reminder I have the Duragesic brand matrix 75mcg patches. I have a very high tolerance, 60 mg Opana IR PD and the 75 mcg patch every few days, which never keeps my pain completely, or nearly completely, at bay. Another question: Does anyone know if the adhesive in the Duragesic patch contains fentanyl? From what I have found, some say no, some say a nominal amount, but if not can I just scrape it off with a razor? This may not be possible on a dry patch but maybe after soaking in IPA?
I feel like I have to make some kind of disclaimer: no one should use fentanyl patches in any way other than prescribed, those who aren't prescribed the fentanyl patch should never attempt to use it as it could kill someone who is opiate-naive
So this is the method I have been using so far after a few experiments, and I am left with some mild opiate relief but mainly just tired. I take a fresh 75mcg patch and cut it in half (After I brush my cheeks/gums with no paste and then swish some IPA in my mouth) I take a 2 cup glass pyrex measuring cup and put just enough water to cover the bottom, barely any. I peel the backing off the patch and place the patch adhesive side down in the water. I put in the microwave for about 15 seconds or until just about to boil/boiling. I then immediately take the patch out and place it on my tongue, and wait a second and put the remaining water and a little squirt more of IPA in my mouth. I go between switching the patch from my cheek to tongue and adding a tiny bit more of IPA here and there, and after about 2 hours I get a little relief and that is about it. I feel that I cannot possibly be getting even near 100% of the 6.3mg in the patch during this period (I believe the Duragesic 75mch has 12.6mg of fent in it)
I have been looking for months for a better way to extract. It seems from the article part I have provided below from the FDA that it should be fairly easy to extract the fent from patches simply by putting a patch in IPA and letting it dissolve the scraping the crystal which would be pure fent (and fillers?) It sounds great in theory, but the several times I have put a new patch in IPA and let it dissolve I am left with nothing to scrape, nada, not even microscopic. What am I doing wrong?! I prefer not to use heat and I am sick of wasting patches and at times I need some serious pain relief. It seems if it were dissolvable by IPA into a crystal form it could be used buccaly or a little up the nose. If it is even possible, I am starting to think that everyone who says it is possible is making up stories or I am just seriously going to begin doubting my abilities to complete a simple task. If anyone has some super-clear and not extremely complicated instructions I would seriously owe ya one. Any advice (except for telling me to put the patch on and use it as prescribed or add heat, don't extract, just IV, etc) is very welcome! Thank you in advance!
Taken from the FDA website in reference to a petition by Mylan when Duragesic was trying to stop Mylan from making a generic matrix system patch, obviously old (2005) since the matrix has been out for years
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/04p0506/04p-0506-rc00001-01-vol2.pdf
"As our petition showed, significant fentanyl can be extracted from a matrix system by water, and
much higher amounts can be extracted by alcohol. Thus, it seems very likely that abusers could
successfully extract fentanyl from a matrix system through its contact with saliva and common
solvents.
Mylan and Noven have provided data supporting this expectation even while they deny the
conclusion. Mylan states that only 15 percent of the fentanyl in its system was released in 30
minutes when soaking in water, and Noven claims that only 28 percent of the fentanyl in its
system was released in an hour under stress conditions. By Mylan’s admission, a matrix system
that contains 10 milligrams of fentanyl could therefore release 1500 micrograms of fentanyl
during a 30-minute exposure to water. Since 50 to 100 micrograms is an abusable dose, the rate
of fentanyl release conceded by Mylan seems ample to allow for “party” use of pieces of a
matrix system and, indeed, a matrix system could release a toxic or lethal dose. Although Mylan
suggests that this release rate, which was measured in 500 ml of water, would not occur in the
smaller liquid volume of saliva, Mylan does not take into account the likelihood that an abuser
would chew the system fragment, potentially hastening drug release, or that an abuser could use
alcohol to sharply increase drug release.
Mylan also minimizes the concern by pointing to the low oral bioavailability of fentanyl.
However, although fentanyl has reduced bioavailability when swallowed, considerable drug will
still enter the bloodstream. Additionally, and more importantly, fentanyl is rapidly absorbed
buccally and is highly bioavailable through that route. These effects are illustrated by the
following statement in the package insert for ActiqB (oral transdermal fentanyl citrate), which
explains that about one-fourth of an oral fentanyl dose will be rapidly absorbed through the
buccal mucosa and another fourth will be systemically absorbed more slowly after swallowing:
“The absorption pharmacokinetics of fentanyl from the oral transmucosal dosage
form is a combination of an initial rapid absorption from the buccal mucosa and a
more prolonged absorption of swallowed fentanyl from the GI tract. . . . Absolute
bioavailability, as determined by area under the concentration-time curve, of 15
mcg/kg in 12 adult males was 50% compared to intravenous fentanyl. Normally,
approximately 25% of the total dose of Actiq is rapidly absorbed from the buccal
mucosa and becomes systemically available. The remaining 75% of the total dose
is swallowed with the saliva and then is slowly absorbed from the GI tract. About
l/3 of this amount (25% of the total dose) escapes hepatic and intestinal first-pass
elimination and becomes systemically available. Thus, the generally observed
50% bioavailability of Actiq is divided equally between rapid transmucosal and
slower GI absorption.”
In short, despite the incomplete oral bioavailability of fentanyl, the combination of buccal and
gastrointestinal absorption would provide an ample and controllable amount of fentanyl to
abusers from a piece of a matrix system held in the mouth. If sponsors of matrix fentanyl
transdermal systems believe otherwise, they should be required to generate clinical data
documenting the buccal absorption of fentanyl from their systems.
3B. The Extraction Study Submitted in ALZA’s Petition Was Sound
Apart from the ease with which abusers could extract a controlled dose of fentanyl through
buccal or sublingual absorption from a piece of a matrix system, a study summarized in our
petition showed that abusers who wanted fentanyl for injection or smoking could rapidly extract
much more fentanyl from a matrix system than from a reservoir system by soaking the products
in common solvents. Mylan objects to the validity of this study since it used Janssen’s matrix
system, which Mylan says has a different adhesive system and more fentanyl than the Mylan
product.
Although the unavailability of the Mylan product required us to use the Janssen product in this
study, there is no reason to believe that the different adhesive systems and fentanyl loads could
be responsible for the very large differences in percentage yield between the matrix system and
Duragesic@. For example, the use of rum as a solvent extracted over 90 percent of the fentanyl in
the matrix system but less than 10 percent from Duragesic@."
Just as a reminder I have the Duragesic brand matrix 75mcg patches. I have a very high tolerance, 60 mg Opana IR PD and the 75 mcg patch every few days, which never keeps my pain completely, or nearly completely, at bay. Another question: Does anyone know if the adhesive in the Duragesic patch contains fentanyl? From what I have found, some say no, some say a nominal amount, but if not can I just scrape it off with a razor? This may not be possible on a dry patch but maybe after soaking in IPA?
I feel like I have to make some kind of disclaimer: no one should use fentanyl patches in any way other than prescribed, those who aren't prescribed the fentanyl patch should never attempt to use it as it could kill someone who is opiate-naive
So this is the method I have been using so far after a few experiments, and I am left with some mild opiate relief but mainly just tired. I take a fresh 75mcg patch and cut it in half (After I brush my cheeks/gums with no paste and then swish some IPA in my mouth) I take a 2 cup glass pyrex measuring cup and put just enough water to cover the bottom, barely any. I peel the backing off the patch and place the patch adhesive side down in the water. I put in the microwave for about 15 seconds or until just about to boil/boiling. I then immediately take the patch out and place it on my tongue, and wait a second and put the remaining water and a little squirt more of IPA in my mouth. I go between switching the patch from my cheek to tongue and adding a tiny bit more of IPA here and there, and after about 2 hours I get a little relief and that is about it. I feel that I cannot possibly be getting even near 100% of the 6.3mg in the patch during this period (I believe the Duragesic 75mch has 12.6mg of fent in it)
I have been looking for months for a better way to extract. It seems from the article part I have provided below from the FDA that it should be fairly easy to extract the fent from patches simply by putting a patch in IPA and letting it dissolve the scraping the crystal which would be pure fent (and fillers?) It sounds great in theory, but the several times I have put a new patch in IPA and let it dissolve I am left with nothing to scrape, nada, not even microscopic. What am I doing wrong?! I prefer not to use heat and I am sick of wasting patches and at times I need some serious pain relief. It seems if it were dissolvable by IPA into a crystal form it could be used buccaly or a little up the nose. If it is even possible, I am starting to think that everyone who says it is possible is making up stories or I am just seriously going to begin doubting my abilities to complete a simple task. If anyone has some super-clear and not extremely complicated instructions I would seriously owe ya one. Any advice (except for telling me to put the patch on and use it as prescribed or add heat, don't extract, just IV, etc) is very welcome! Thank you in advance!
Taken from the FDA website in reference to a petition by Mylan when Duragesic was trying to stop Mylan from making a generic matrix system patch, obviously old (2005) since the matrix has been out for years
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/04p0506/04p-0506-rc00001-01-vol2.pdf
"As our petition showed, significant fentanyl can be extracted from a matrix system by water, and
much higher amounts can be extracted by alcohol. Thus, it seems very likely that abusers could
successfully extract fentanyl from a matrix system through its contact with saliva and common
solvents.
Mylan and Noven have provided data supporting this expectation even while they deny the
conclusion. Mylan states that only 15 percent of the fentanyl in its system was released in 30
minutes when soaking in water, and Noven claims that only 28 percent of the fentanyl in its
system was released in an hour under stress conditions. By Mylan’s admission, a matrix system
that contains 10 milligrams of fentanyl could therefore release 1500 micrograms of fentanyl
during a 30-minute exposure to water. Since 50 to 100 micrograms is an abusable dose, the rate
of fentanyl release conceded by Mylan seems ample to allow for “party” use of pieces of a
matrix system and, indeed, a matrix system could release a toxic or lethal dose. Although Mylan
suggests that this release rate, which was measured in 500 ml of water, would not occur in the
smaller liquid volume of saliva, Mylan does not take into account the likelihood that an abuser
would chew the system fragment, potentially hastening drug release, or that an abuser could use
alcohol to sharply increase drug release.
Mylan also minimizes the concern by pointing to the low oral bioavailability of fentanyl.
However, although fentanyl has reduced bioavailability when swallowed, considerable drug will
still enter the bloodstream. Additionally, and more importantly, fentanyl is rapidly absorbed
buccally and is highly bioavailable through that route. These effects are illustrated by the
following statement in the package insert for ActiqB (oral transdermal fentanyl citrate), which
explains that about one-fourth of an oral fentanyl dose will be rapidly absorbed through the
buccal mucosa and another fourth will be systemically absorbed more slowly after swallowing:
“The absorption pharmacokinetics of fentanyl from the oral transmucosal dosage
form is a combination of an initial rapid absorption from the buccal mucosa and a
more prolonged absorption of swallowed fentanyl from the GI tract. . . . Absolute
bioavailability, as determined by area under the concentration-time curve, of 15
mcg/kg in 12 adult males was 50% compared to intravenous fentanyl. Normally,
approximately 25% of the total dose of Actiq is rapidly absorbed from the buccal
mucosa and becomes systemically available. The remaining 75% of the total dose
is swallowed with the saliva and then is slowly absorbed from the GI tract. About
l/3 of this amount (25% of the total dose) escapes hepatic and intestinal first-pass
elimination and becomes systemically available. Thus, the generally observed
50% bioavailability of Actiq is divided equally between rapid transmucosal and
slower GI absorption.”
In short, despite the incomplete oral bioavailability of fentanyl, the combination of buccal and
gastrointestinal absorption would provide an ample and controllable amount of fentanyl to
abusers from a piece of a matrix system held in the mouth. If sponsors of matrix fentanyl
transdermal systems believe otherwise, they should be required to generate clinical data
documenting the buccal absorption of fentanyl from their systems.
3B. The Extraction Study Submitted in ALZA’s Petition Was Sound
Apart from the ease with which abusers could extract a controlled dose of fentanyl through
buccal or sublingual absorption from a piece of a matrix system, a study summarized in our
petition showed that abusers who wanted fentanyl for injection or smoking could rapidly extract
much more fentanyl from a matrix system than from a reservoir system by soaking the products
in common solvents. Mylan objects to the validity of this study since it used Janssen’s matrix
system, which Mylan says has a different adhesive system and more fentanyl than the Mylan
product.
Although the unavailability of the Mylan product required us to use the Janssen product in this
study, there is no reason to believe that the different adhesive systems and fentanyl loads could
be responsible for the very large differences in percentage yield between the matrix system and
Duragesic@. For example, the use of rum as a solvent extracted over 90 percent of the fentanyl in
the matrix system but less than 10 percent from Duragesic@."