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Opioids Question about DURAGESIC@ brand Fentanyl extraction for buccal/nasal use, HELP PLEASE

FionaCassidy

Greenlighter
Joined
Jan 17, 2013
Messages
3
Hola peeps. I have googled the sh*t outta this and I am aware there are tons of extraction methods but I can't make sense of it all and much of it is quite complex for what I am trying to accomplish, which is simply an extraction for buccal or nasal use, (not IV) Also, I have tried several of these extractions and wasted too many patches not being able to come out with any viable results. I am not too keen on using heat, and it seems that Duragesic brand matrix patches should be able to be extracted with isopropyl alcohol (IPA), in theory.

Just as a reminder I have the Duragesic brand matrix 75mcg patches. I have a very high tolerance, 60 mg Opana IR PD and the 75 mcg patch every few days, which never keeps my pain completely, or nearly completely, at bay. Another question: Does anyone know if the adhesive in the Duragesic patch contains fentanyl? From what I have found, some say no, some say a nominal amount, but if not can I just scrape it off with a razor? This may not be possible on a dry patch but maybe after soaking in IPA?

I feel like I have to make some kind of disclaimer: no one should use fentanyl patches in any way other than prescribed, those who aren't prescribed the fentanyl patch should never attempt to use it as it could kill someone who is opiate-naive

So this is the method I have been using so far after a few experiments, and I am left with some mild opiate relief but mainly just tired. I take a fresh 75mcg patch and cut it in half (After I brush my cheeks/gums with no paste and then swish some IPA in my mouth) I take a 2 cup glass pyrex measuring cup and put just enough water to cover the bottom, barely any. I peel the backing off the patch and place the patch adhesive side down in the water. I put in the microwave for about 15 seconds or until just about to boil/boiling. I then immediately take the patch out and place it on my tongue, and wait a second and put the remaining water and a little squirt more of IPA in my mouth. I go between switching the patch from my cheek to tongue and adding a tiny bit more of IPA here and there, and after about 2 hours I get a little relief and that is about it. I feel that I cannot possibly be getting even near 100% of the 6.3mg in the patch during this period (I believe the Duragesic 75mch has 12.6mg of fent in it)

I have been looking for months for a better way to extract. It seems from the article part I have provided below from the FDA that it should be fairly easy to extract the fent from patches simply by putting a patch in IPA and letting it dissolve the scraping the crystal which would be pure fent (and fillers?) It sounds great in theory, but the several times I have put a new patch in IPA and let it dissolve I am left with nothing to scrape, nada, not even microscopic. What am I doing wrong?! I prefer not to use heat and I am sick of wasting patches and at times I need some serious pain relief. It seems if it were dissolvable by IPA into a crystal form it could be used buccaly or a little up the nose. If it is even possible, I am starting to think that everyone who says it is possible is making up stories or I am just seriously going to begin doubting my abilities to complete a simple task. If anyone has some super-clear and not extremely complicated instructions I would seriously owe ya one. Any advice (except for telling me to put the patch on and use it as prescribed or add heat, don't extract, just IV, etc) is very welcome! Thank you in advance!


Taken from the FDA website in reference to a petition by Mylan when Duragesic was trying to stop Mylan from making a generic matrix system patch, obviously old (2005) since the matrix has been out for years
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/04p0506/04p-0506-rc00001-01-vol2.pdf

"As our petition showed, significant fentanyl can be extracted from a matrix system by water, and
much higher amounts can be extracted by alcohol. Thus, it seems very likely that abusers could
successfully extract fentanyl from a matrix system through its contact with saliva and common
solvents.

Mylan and Noven have provided data supporting this expectation even while they deny the
conclusion. Mylan states that only 15 percent of the fentanyl in its system was released in 30
minutes when soaking in water, and Noven claims that only 28 percent of the fentanyl in its
system was released in an hour under stress conditions. By Mylan’s admission, a matrix system
that contains 10 milligrams of fentanyl could therefore release 1500 micrograms of fentanyl
during a 30-minute exposure to water. Since 50 to 100 micrograms is an abusable dose, the rate
of fentanyl release conceded by Mylan seems ample to allow for “party” use of pieces of a
matrix system and, indeed, a matrix system could release a toxic or lethal dose. Although Mylan
suggests that this release rate, which was measured in 500 ml of water, would not occur in the
smaller liquid volume of saliva, Mylan does not take into account the likelihood that an abuser
would chew the system fragment, potentially hastening drug release, or that an abuser could use
alcohol to sharply increase drug release.

Mylan also minimizes the concern by pointing to the low oral bioavailability of fentanyl.
However, although fentanyl has reduced bioavailability when swallowed, considerable drug will
still enter the bloodstream. Additionally, and more importantly, fentanyl is rapidly absorbed
buccally and is highly bioavailable through that route. These effects are illustrated by the
following statement in the package insert for ActiqB (oral transdermal fentanyl citrate), which
explains that about one-fourth of an oral fentanyl dose will be rapidly absorbed through the
buccal mucosa and another fourth will be systemically absorbed more slowly after swallowing:
“The absorption pharmacokinetics of fentanyl from the oral transmucosal dosage
form is a combination of an initial rapid absorption from the buccal mucosa and a
more prolonged absorption of swallowed fentanyl from the GI tract. . . . Absolute
bioavailability, as determined by area under the concentration-time curve, of 15
mcg/kg in 12 adult males was 50% compared to intravenous fentanyl. Normally,
approximately 25% of the total dose of Actiq is rapidly absorbed from the buccal
mucosa and becomes systemically available. The remaining 75% of the total dose
is swallowed with the saliva and then is slowly absorbed from the GI tract. About
l/3 of this amount (25% of the total dose) escapes hepatic and intestinal first-pass
elimination and becomes systemically available. Thus, the generally observed
50% bioavailability of Actiq is divided equally between rapid transmucosal and
slower GI absorption.”

In short, despite the incomplete oral bioavailability of fentanyl, the combination of buccal and
gastrointestinal absorption would provide an ample and controllable amount of fentanyl to
abusers from a piece of a matrix system held in the mouth. If sponsors of matrix fentanyl
transdermal systems believe otherwise, they should be required to generate clinical data
documenting the buccal absorption of fentanyl from their systems.

3B. The Extraction Study Submitted in ALZA’s Petition Was Sound
Apart from the ease with which abusers could extract a controlled dose of fentanyl through
buccal or sublingual absorption from a piece of a matrix system, a study summarized in our
petition showed that abusers who wanted fentanyl for injection or smoking could rapidly extract
much more fentanyl from a matrix system than from a reservoir system by soaking the products
in common solvents. Mylan objects to the validity of this study since it used Janssen’s matrix
system, which Mylan says has a different adhesive system and more fentanyl than the Mylan
product.

Although the unavailability of the Mylan product required us to use the Janssen product in this
study, there is no reason to believe that the different adhesive systems and fentanyl loads could
be responsible for the very large differences in percentage yield between the matrix system and
Duragesic@. For example, the use of rum as a solvent extracted over 90 percent of the fentanyl in
the matrix system but less than 10 percent from Duragesic@."
 
The ONLY time I got the microwave flash boil trick to work (your first method), was when I had a relatively low opiate tolerance, and you can't be switching it back and forth between your cheek and tongue or wherever else. You need to let it sit in ONE spot -- obviously the less interference with saliva in b/w your cheek and the patch the better. Moving it around just disrupts any transfer and introduces more saliva to wash it away. Some folks fold it in half so that they can tuck it in b/w their gum and cheek even (drier area than up against any part of just your cheek too).
Having tried this method myself after having gained a tolerance thanks to Opana, it no longer works for me.

I also have tried every single extraction method google had to offer, just like you have (mostly with IPA). I've even used a double boiler setup to introduce heat.
These methods have NEVER been successful for me, and ALWAYS wasted every patch.

Any pharmacist can special order any brand of patch from their distributing warehouse. If you receive them legitimately via an Rx, then simply just request either Watson or Actavis brand. These are the only two remaining brands that still use the gel reservoirs. That gel is the only way to abuse them, however if these are your only source of extended release pain medication (the patches) then I strongly advise against this -- as your patches will be gone in no time. My pharmacist lets me mix and match brands even, so if you MUST -- then do yourself a favor and only get one box of 5 of the gels.

Now THAT said, I have found Sandoz (from the makers of Duragesic, so basically the same patch) to be the BEST "film" type, and at once every 48 hrs, I continue to feel a fent euphoria for the first 24 hours after each patch application -- if you let yourself get adjusted to using them as directed, you may be surprised and feel the same -- without abusing, wasting patches, and putting your health in danger. Abusing the gels usually goes from rubbing into your gums to quickly vaporizing them, which makes them disappear at an alarming rate -- because of the INSTANT dependence you get from inhaling the vapor due to the incredibly short half-life. Anybody who has been down that road, will probably tell you to be very careful and as conservative as possible... and limit yourself from the beginning and STICK to it. If you blow thru more than a few gel patches at a time (esp via vaporizing) you WILL go thru fent withdrawals when its over, and you will most likely get sick even before you're done abusing them -- as in, you will start puking WHILE intoxicated, no matter your tolerance.

Hope this helps in someway. Be safe dude.
 
I'm honestly NOT being a smart ass here...I know you said you Googled this, but have you searched within BL itself? Like within Other Drugs, or maybe even in the archives? I am sure I've seen several threads about this, but they're not necessarily gonna be on one of the first few pages of O.D.
 
not to be a dick, either, but you sound like you have no idea what you're doing, having no business fucking around with fentanyl.

what exactly is it you're trying to achieve by microwaving the patch in IPA for 15 seconds then sticking the patch in your mouth? then you're, what, spraying the remainder of IPA on your gums? that's not going to be extracting any fentanyl. it's only heating up the adhesive allowing for quicker release of the fentanyl through the matrix adhesive when you stick it up against your gums.

you'll have more success cutting up the patch to your desired dosage amount and simply sticking it against the side of your cheeks, leave it there no longer than 10mins initially to get a grasp of the effects and continue from there.
 
I didn't put it like the other two did, but I feel similarly. Dont make me regret telling you about the gel reservoir type, please, please, please....
 
I've has the gel reservoir type, and the method of abusing those is obvious and if I still got the gel I would still use them the way I did when I had them. Unfortunately I have an extremely high tolerance for opiates, so getting pain relief even from what I'm on still doesn't cut it. Lol you guys are acting like I am opiate-naive, that is certainly not the case as I have been using opiates for 14 years now, and was able to quit an IV heroin habit 2 years ago and have the willpower to never come up short on my meds. The fact of the matter is just that fent is the only opiate besides Exalgo that I don't have the most experience with. Everyone says fentanyl is the most dangerous opiate, and I agree for those who are opiate-naive or have a low tolerance. This is not a medication for people who are not on regularly or used to a very high dose of opiates or don't have a lot of experience to be effing around with. Trust me I am opiate-tolerant.

I also am aware of my tolerance and I'm not reckless. Even putting 2 patches 75mcg at the same time w/added heat doesn't give me a glow. You guys are all acting like I am crazy with the IPA. If you actually took the time to read the link (FDA) it speaks clearly on the fact that matrix patches can be extracted simply by using IPA in a matter of hours and then letting the remaining IPA evaporate to crystals. BTW all these methods were methods I found in the OD thread for fentanyl extraction! : ) I am not pulling this info out of my ass.

QUESTION: I have tried to search this but have been unable to due to the fact that I cannot remember the name of the medication I am thinking of, but I found out about it on BL. It's a RX med that starts with an "N" and it was found to not reduce opiate tolerance but to keep opiate tolerance from rising. Obviously this med wasn't produced for this reason but was found to be a side effect and I suppose it may be RXed off label for this purpose. If I can figure out the name of it I can probably get my doctor to prescribe it for me, as then I could slowly taper down to a point where my pain is just about bareable then begin taking the med. If you haven't heard about this med I'm sure you are AGAIN saying wtf is this chick talking about? But I have read posts about people who use this medication for that purpose with success. Of course you have to be able to slowly taper yourself on your own, oohhh willpower : p

Geeez you guys don't have to all come at me and treat me like an idiot who has no idea what is going on. I am not stupid and would not mess around with anything my body can't handle. A 14 year opiate habit sucks and though I (like all of us) wish that weren't the case, we all know you can never really ever get back to even close to what your tolerance once was. At one point, even after I hadn't used an opiate in 2 years, I stupidly backslid for a few days and IVed heroin and I was sadly disappointed that my tolerance wasn't far from what it was when I quit, buttttt I don't know why I am telling a story that I'm sure every single one of us has experienced, anyway, thanks for the friendly BL welcome!!!
 
The ONLY time I got the microwave flash boil trick to work (your first method), was when I had a relatively low opiate tolerance, and you can't be switching it back and forth between your cheek and tongue or wherever else. You need to let it sit in ONE spot -- obviously the less interference with saliva in b/w your cheek and the patch the better. Moving it around just disrupts any transfer and introduces more saliva to wash it away. Some folks fold it in half so that they can tuck it in b/w their gum and cheek even (drier area than up against any part of just your cheek too).
Having tried this method myself after having gained a tolerance thanks to Opana, it no longer works for me.

I also have tried every single extraction method google had to offer, just like you have (mostly with IPA). I've even used a double boiler setup to introduce heat.
These methods have NEVER been successful for me, and ALWAYS wasted every patch.

Any pharmacist can special order any brand of patch from their distributing warehouse. If you receive them legitimately via an Rx, then simply just request either Watson or Actavis brand. These are the only two remaining brands that still use the gel reservoirs. That gel is the only way to abuse them, however if these are your only source of extended release pain medication (the patches) then I strongly advise against this -- as your patches will be gone in no time. My pharmacist lets me mix and match brands even, so if you MUST -- then do yourself a favor and only get one box of 5 of the gels.

Now THAT said, I have found Sandoz (from the makers of Duragesic, so basically the same patch) to be the BEST "film" type, and at once every 48 hrs, I continue to feel a fent euphoria for the first 24 hours after each patch application -- if you let yourself get adjusted to using them as directed, you may be surprised and feel the same -- without abusing, wasting patches, and putting your health in danger. Abusing the gels usually goes from rubbing into your gums to quickly vaporizing them, which makes them disappear at an alarming rate -- because of the INSTANT dependence you get from inhaling the vapor due to the incredibly short half-life. Anybody who has been down that road, will probably tell you to be very careful and as conservative as possible... and limit yourself from the beginning and STICK to it. If you blow thru more than a few gel patches at a time (esp via vaporizing) you WILL go thru fent withdrawals when its over, and you will most likely get sick even before you're done abusing them -- as in, you will start puking WHILE intoxicated, no matter your tolerance.

Hope this helps in someway. Be safe dude.



Yeah I get everything you are saying. I always get the Duragesic brand name because luckily I have insurance through my job that pays for most of it then each RX comes with a $50 Duragesic coupon so my 10 patches each month are free! The reason I was thinking allowing the saliva to create a pool in your mouth with the patch in your cheek is because of the FDA link I had added on the bottom of my thread ( I don't really think anyone read it ) But it had to do with experiments done with the Matrix patch before it even came out and that is where I got a good amount of my extraction ideas with the IPA. But I took the advice and dried the inside of my cheeks as much as I could then cut a patch into 2 and stuck one half on each side of my mouth and they stuck pretty well and left them in there for 2 hours and didn't swallow my saliva and I got a little buzz. How and when do you know when all the fent is gone? It seems impossible that all of it can even be released buccally. I always feel like when the fent taste is gone the fent is too but that's probably not the case. Thanks for the friendly advice! : ) it was actually helpful!
 
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