Putting together a rehab plan

[kreativsniks]

Hi, my fellow BL'ers.

It's been a while since I've made a new topic; I've been lurking around here for quite some time, posting occasionally where I think I can offer some perspective and/or experience. Not a secret that I mostly browse this forum when I either feel down and/or helpful, and this time not different.

Just like the title says, I'm looking for some insight regarding putting together a reasonable rehab plan, since I feel a bit stuck without one. But first I'll give a little overview.

During the past two years I've been steadily going downhill which has result in some major life changes (got into motorcycle accident this past summer, was out of work for 3months, my arm still recovering; returned to work broke and only a month after returning I got notified that I'm no longer necessary starting from the new year. I've worked there last 9 years so, it's a pretty big change for me.). Throughout these 2 years I've been abusing alcohol & cocaine, for the past year I've been trying to get sober, but haven't been able to completely. From March to October I was on Disulphiram injection, which enabled me not to use alcohol at all, but I still was using Coke pretty regular. Now I've been drinking and using coke at least 1 day (and night) every week and it seems I can't stop.

I'm not sure how to proceed with this. Recently I got a new girlfriend (been single for last 2 years), who is really supportive and understanding and she knows about my issues and really wishes to help me stop using completely. Since I met her I must admit - I use less, but still too much, weekly use is leaving me depressed for 3 days after, then when I finally feel like I've recovered, I use again. I just recently lost my job, I know if I won't stop this new girlfriend is not gonna hang out if I continue like this (and its only fair).

I will start to look for a new job very soon and in my field (Healthcare/IT) I have to be pretty sharp to find & be able to hold down a job, so I have all the reasons to be sober, but I still fall in.

Thinking about visiting a psychiatrist, but I'm not confident about what medication he going to prescribe, usually it's Anti Depressant + Mood stabilizer; If I tell her about coke, he gonna go for Welbutrin, which wasn't that bad, but it made me feel weird in a few weeks. Would it work to use Anti depressant and/or other meds they prescribe for the time being? I know many of them need 4-6 weeks to fully start working. But perhaps a med combo could help me NOT to relapse.

Then I'm thinking about some sort of 12 step program or something. Where I live (Eastern Europe) we don't have much of a choice. I'm not particularly against religious approach, as long as it can help & works for me. I'm afraid I'm not strong enough & willpower is low to at least initially stay sober for a month. If someone has experience with 12 steps, please don't hesitate to share your experiences.

What other approaches are there? A therapist perhaps? I have a couple of friends who we talk very often about things we usually talk with a specialist, but perhaps a specialist can help catch me my biases much better than friends?

Maybe I'm looking for a golden bullet here, I don't know; what I do know, I need some help at this point in my life, something more than willpower.

I'll be thankful for any and all comments here.

Thanks for taking time and reading my long rant.,

 

[thatmf]

There is no golden bullet sadly. I think cutting down drinking a little would be good. Can you get back on the disulphiram? I've heard good things about welbutrin, but as long as you stop doing coke since it can mess with you a bit. Do you have a psychologist or drug and alcohol counsellor you can keep in touch with? For me it helped recording my relapses and slowly working on triggers.

Edit: I like the term "biases". I'd definitely recommend finding a decent psychologist. They won't solve your problems but they'll make you feel less alone and help you with your sobriety

 

[paltatomate]

I'd definitely recommend finding a decent psychologist. They won't solve your problems but they'll make you feel less alone and help you with your sobriety

i'm no friend of psychologists and therapists, but i do believe they are great help for many people.
find someone who takes the time to be there for you when you need to talk/vent or have questions.

 

[JahBeeuS]

Hi, my fellow BL'ers.

It's been a while since I've made a new topic; I've been lurking around here for quite some time, posting occasionally where I think I can offer some perspective and/or experience. Not a secret that I mostly browse this forum when I either feel down and/or helpful, and this time not different.

Just like the title says, I'm looking for some insight regarding putting together a reasonable rehab plan, since I feel a bit stuck without one. But first I'll give a little overview.

During the past two years I've been steadily going downhill which has result in some major life changes (got into motorcycle accident this past summer, was out of work for 3months, my arm still recovering; returned to work broke and only a month after returning I got notified that I'm no longer necessary starting from the new year. I've worked there last 9 years so, it's a pretty big change for me.). Throughout these 2 years I've been abusing alcohol & cocaine, for the past year I've been trying to get sober, but haven't been able to completely. From March to October I was on Disulphiram injection, which enabled me not to use alcohol at all, but I still was using Coke pretty regular. Now I've been drinking and using coke at least 1 day (and night) every week and it seems I can't stop.

I'm not sure how to proceed with this. Recently I got a new girlfriend (been single for last 2 years), who is really supportive and understanding and she knows about my issues and really wishes to help me stop using completely. Since I met her I must admit - I use less, but still too much, weekly use is leaving me depressed for 3 days after, then when I finally feel like I've recovered, I use again. I just recently lost my job, I know if I won't stop this new girlfriend is not gonna hang out if I continue like this (and its only fair).

I will start to look for a new job very soon and in my field (Healthcare/IT) I have to be pretty sharp to find & be able to hold down a job, so I have all the reasons to be sober, but I still fall in.

Thinking about visiting a psychiatrist, but I'm not confident about what medication he going to prescribe, usually it's Anti Depressant + Mood stabilizer; If I tell her about coke, he gonna go for Welbutrin, which wasn't that bad, but it made me feel weird in a few weeks. Would it work to use Anti depressant and/or other meds they prescribe for the time being? I know many of them need 4-6 weeks to fully start working. But perhaps a med combo could help me NOT to relapse.

Then I'm thinking about some sort of 12 step program or something. Where I live (Eastern Europe) we don't have much of a choice. I'm not particularly against religious approach, as long as it can help & works for me. I'm afraid I'm not strong enough & willpower is low to at least initially stay sober for a month. If someone has experience with 12 steps, please don't hesitate to share your experiences.

I'm part of a 12th step room. Never was very godly or religious but was raised Catholic so im no stranger to thinking about higher powers and what not but it's been extremely beneficial for me to start trying to build a relationship with a higher power (even if I don't necessarily believe in one). I always tried to rely on my "willpower" and my own thinking and it never really got me anywhere. Getting a sponsor and staying active in AA has been extremely beneficial to me and by proxy my community lol

What other approaches are there? A therapist perhaps? I have a couple of friends who we talk very often about things we usually talk with a specialist, but perhaps a specialist can help catch me my biases much better than friends?

If you do a 12 step program thoroughly you'll probably not need to spend time / money with a therapist as much of the work done in those rooms is similar imo. I'm just more comfortable being thoroughly honest with my fellow degenerate junkies than I am a shrink.

Maybe I'm looking for a golden bullet here, I don't know; what I do know, I need some help at this point in my life, something more than willpower.

Asking for help is a good start.

I'll be thankful for any and all comments here.

Thanks for taking time and reading my long rant.,

Feel free to pm me if you have any further questions or need clarification on anything.

Much love

 

[kreativsniks]

First of all I wanted to thank everyone who took an effort and commented on my topic; much appreciated. I'll try to answer in no particular order.

Regarding disulphiram, I got an injection which was supposed to work for 6 months (there are 1 year versions available too), about 8 weeks after my injection, I tried getting drunk and resulting hangover was so severe and debilitating that after that single episode I didn't try alcohol for 3 more months, tried again at month 5/6, still felt an increase in hangover, but less than when I did 2 months in. I think it works for what it's supposed to.

But the problem was/is this a fact, that even when I wasn't using alcohol, I still craved coke & did it pretty regularly; What I, unfortunately, found out is that in order to reduce the shakiness from coke, I could pop 1/2 pill of zopiclone and it balanced things out in a similar way that alcohol does (albeit cocaethylene can't be beat with how it gets one high). So, basically, I swapped alcohol with zopiclone, which was somewhat better, but still it didn't help to significantly reducing coke usage.

I'm not against religious approach, but I'll be honest - reading other peoples experiences it seems that AA/NA is like a cult, where we have no power over ourselves and only God can help us (which might be true); I feel like I want something which is at least somewhat based on science (like CBT, for example). I'll check my local AA/NA anyway, since in order to have an opinion, I need to give it a try, perhaps it helps like it does for so many?

Then there are medications. I've been doing research regarding what might be helpful (I suspect I have ADHD, not diagnosed tho). There is wellbutrin which I've tried and found somewhat effective, but after about a month of usage I developed insomnia and nightmares and it made my pretty anxious (it seems that some anti-anxiety med should be used with it). There is also this medication called "Selegiline" which works by completely different mechanism (MAO-B inhibition), it is used as off label for ADHD/Major depression.

Back in my younger days I've dabbled with amphetamine and it did wonders for my ability to study & actually be able to maintain focus when I do my assignments; I just felt calm and interested, unlike with coke -> I never seem to hit the sweet spot where I can focus and study, it's either too much and I'm jittery or too little and I'm bugging to get a bit more (and end up overexcited).

 

[jasperkent]

I'm not against religious approach, but I'll be honest - reading other peoples experiences it seems that AA/NA is like a cult, where we have no power over ourselves and only God can help us (which might be true); I feel like I want something which is at least somewhat based on science (like CBT, for example). I'll check my local AA/NA anyway, since in order to have an opinion, I need to give it a try, perhaps it helps like it does for so many?

I am agnostic and very anti-religion. I'm also not a "joiner" ....I'm not into clubs and certainly not churches or cults. Nevertheless, I got a lot out of AA early in my recovery. Some people do get fanatical about their 12-Step programs, but most don't. I didn't.

An old saying in AA is "take what you need and leave the rest." That is exactly what I did. There's a lot of wisdom in AA. Some bullshit, but a lot of wisdom. I just listened closely to those who had the kind of recovery that I wanted.

I still attend meetings every now & then, but I do not "work a program" or have a sponsor or follow the 12 Steps exactly. What I like is the camaraderie and the freedom to speak honestly about what I'm going through with people who actually "get it."

Also, meetings vary. Don't judge all of AA by one or two shitty meetings. Shop around.

Best wishes on your journey.

PS-- My addictions included other drugs besides alcohol. I went to some NA meetings from time to time, but I preferred AA. I found that there was more maturity and long-term recovery in AA. YMMV.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I am agnostic and very anti-religion. I'm also not a "joiner" ....I'm not into clubs and certainly not churches or cults. Nevertheless, I got a lot out of AA early in my recovery. Some people do get fanatical about their 12-Step programs, but most don't. I didn't.

An old saying in AA is "take what you need and leave the rest." That is exactly what I did. There's a lot of wisdom in AA. Some bullshit, but a lot of wisdom. I just listened closely to those who had the kind of recovery that I wanted.

I still attend meetings every now & then, but I do not "work a program" or have a sponsor or follow the 12 Steps exactly. What I like is the camaraderie and the freedom to speak honestly about what I'm going through with people who actually "get it."

Also, meetings vary. Don't judge all of AA by one or two shitty meetings. Shop around.

Best wishes on your journey.

PS-- My addictions included other drugs besides alcohol. I went to some NA meetings from time to time, but I preferred AA. I found that there was more maturity and long-term recovery in AA. YMMV.

When going NA/ AA seek a integer one. Maybe i by chance got a bad example.

But ado vacating stopping Alcohol without dr super vision. When dependent ?
The so called we care, that when necessary lacked. No one responded.
No one called back.

The hugs were great, the group leader maybe type derailed sekt leader ?

 

[jasperkent]

But ado vacating stopping Alcohol without dr super vision. When dependent ?

I've never heard anyone advocate an abrupt cessation of drinking without medical intervention for a physically dependent person. That's dangerous.

Bill Wilson, the founder of AA, was hospitalized many times. In fact, his "vision" that led to the creation of AA occurred while he was in a hospital bed.

In Alcoholis Anonymous (the "Big Book" of AA), there are many references to the need for medical care. Anyone who says otherwise is being extremely irresponsible.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I've never heard anyone advocate an abrupt cessation of drinking without medical intervention for a physically dependent person. That's dangerous.

Bill Wilson, the founder of AA, was hospitalized many times. In fact, his "vision" that led to the creation of AA occurred while he was in a hospital bed.

In Alcoholis Anonymous (the "Big Book" of AA), there are many references to the need for medical care. Anyone who says otherwise is being extremely irresponsible.

This was a NA, still got the book. So its literally black on white.
That s why i mentioned seek a good integer group.

And don t know how a good AA program goes.
But this was a lot of repetition. Of the same useless Mantras.
Saying among: your are always a addict.
You have a disease, you can t help yourself only a higher force.

They also had a scouting like system with Trofee s you d earn, for time sober.
Smoked Weed, so only got one. But imo a bit Childish approach.

Two of the group tried to open a discussion with that 'guru' type leader.
Bout the danger of abrupt cessation.
And he wimped it off as bullshit, medical intervention.
While its to prevent a seizure, to him just drugs like Alcohol.
Confronting with medical info and dr s advise on it.

He dared calling them no more then, well paid legal drug dealers.
Which is true, but in case of Ethanol addiction. Your best bet.
He totally dismissed their knowledge, that health don t work ok.

But saying dr s a crooks, and medical research is bogus.

 

[jasperkent]

...And don t know how a good AA program goes....

In any large group of people (especially where emotions run high), you'll find a handful of con artists, predators, lunatics, well-meaning idiots, and malevolent morons.

I've attended maybe a hundred NA meetings and a couple thousand AA meetings at dozens of different locations in five cities over the last 40 years. A few of those meetings were stinkers, but the overwhelming majority were positive experiences.

Even a really great group can have a couple of losers in it. If the losers are running the meetings, then it's a lousy group. Move on.

 

[Opana313]

This is a great thread..there have been times when I wonder how can I do this without losing my job and timing is so important imo. Like my job says they have services to get you help but idk how all that would work..sounds like I would probably snitch on myself and would get fired. But yeah main issue is days or weeks to a month off to actually recover.

 

[jasperkent]

This is a great thread..there have been times when I wonder how can I do this without losing my job and timing is so important imo. Like my job says they have services to get you help but idk how all that would work..sounds like I would probably snitch on myself and would get fired. But yeah main issue is days or weeks to a month off to actually recover.

These days a lot of companies will excuse an employee for 28 days or so for detox/rehab purposes. Some even pay for it.

Bosses are beginning to realize that addiction is everywhere and that it makes more sense to help a person than to fire them.

PS-- This is one upside of the "Disease Model" of addiction. Whether you agree with it or not, it benefits the addict by lessening the stigma.
Companies are finding it harder to justify terminating a person simply because they have diabetes, high blood pressure..... or "substance abuse disorder."

 

[Opana313]

Thanks brother

 

[emkee_reinvented]

In any large group of people (especially where emotions run high), you'll find a handful of con artists, predators, lunatics, well-meaning idiots, and malevolent morons.

I've attended maybe a hundred NA meetings and a couple thousand AA meetings at dozens of different locations in five cities over the last 40 years. A few of those meetings were stinkers, but the overwhelming majority were positive experiences.

Even a really great group can have a couple of losers in it. If the losers are running the meetings, then it's a lousy group. Move on.

Weirdest was that unlike the Elton John movie.
There was no moment to share your personal story, a sect.
Something imo lakt.

The choice limited, no AA here.
Maybe via one of the many Christian split off s.
Alcohol abuse here is more extreme then in a city.
So Why they are most located there, none here ?

AA maybe not but NA all have different doctrines.
Cant stand doctrines as they cancel discussion/ questioning.
NA is not a protected brand name any crook can [ab]use it.
That s what he said, wonder how he knew,
and in which category he put himself, to me it was obvious.

Maybe the AA not. And there is a sort of minimal quality required.
A over coupling organisation keeping them in check ?

i met only well-meaning idiots [luck], and a luny running the group.
Btw situated 2.5 hours away of my house [in a city], via public transport.
Otherwise it would be 1.5 hour in, if you have a car.

 

[jasperkent]

The choice limited, no AA here.....

AA exists almost everywhere on earth and has online meetings as well.

A over coupling organisation keeping them in check

Alcoholics Anonymous World Services holds AA trademarks and copyrights, establishes basic standards and provides literature to groups, but AA is primarily a grassroots thing. Local groups get very little oversight of any kind and can pretty much do whatever they want.
I would assume it's a similar situation with NA, but I'm not sure. AA & NA are not in any way affiliated.

Sorry you had a bad experience with NA. I just wanted you to know that other 12-Step groups (AA,NA,CA,CMA, and 100+ others) are not all like that. I'm not involved with AA anymore and I'll be the first to say I don't love everything about it. They don't have a high success rate, either-- but neither does any other recovery method.
AA helped me a lot in early recovery-- mainly because of the camaraderie and fellow alcoholics sharing "experience, strength, and hope."

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Well i fell in the burning pit of fire, twice.

1-st crawled out myself, 2-nd went to a DETOX.
DIY vs DETOX, DIY wins by long shot.

Just you need to have a real true intend to stop, no back doors .
Some one on youtube mentioned, many addict keep 1 or 2 open.
[in the back of their mind/ junky thoughts had em]
These need to be locked. Just 3 weeks for the WD before gets better.

Is long, especially without comfort meds.
And have mind set of pile off unmotivated shit, keep going.
Ruminating will worsen it.

 

[jasperkent]

1-st crawled out myself, 2-nd went to a DETOX.
DIY vs DETOX, DIY wins by long shot.

Depends on the substance and what you have on hand. With serious addiction to alcohol and/or benzodiazepines, medical detox is strongly recommended-- unless you have meds to taper with.
Booze/benzo withdrawal can cause seizures and even  death. With most drugs, you might  wish you will die, but you probably won't.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Depends on the substance and what you have on hand. With serious addiction to alcohol and/or benzodiazepines, medical detox is strongly recommended-- unless you have meds to taper with.
Booze/benzo withdrawal can cause seizures and even  death. With most drugs, you might  wish you will die, but you probably won't.

MY DIY ment taper and switch to RC Benzo s, short term.
The seizure risk i knew. Never been addicted to Benzo s, my luck !
6 days the lowest amount of Benzo possible.

Then 15 days of endurance.
Depression like symptoms and bad sleep.
Day 21 started feeling better, legal drug no help,
and worst WD i ever witnessed addicted to a drug.

The refusal of my own dr. to help shoqued me.
And the fake DETOX he referred me too.
The only one, and knowing he knew it was Kakalawaka .
Money making/ 90 % relapse was their rate.
So not even worth going would he have told me the truth.

Made like many colleagues, the profession to more disgrace.

 

[jasperkent]

90 % relapse was their rate.

If true, that's a low relapse rate.
Overall, the success rate for staying clean/sober for at least one year on the first try is about 3% -- no matter what method is used.
And yes, any facility that isn't primarily funded by the State is a for-profit enterprise. Some are good, some are horrible, most are just so-so. But they all make money.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

If true, that's a low relapse rate.
Overall, the success rate for staying clean/sober for at least one year on the first try is about 3% -- no matter what method is used.
And yes, any facility that isn't primarily funded by the State is a for-profit enterprise. Some are good, some are horrible, most are just so-so. Bur they all make money.

9 out 10 falling back [10 % succes rate] in patient DETOX is good ?
Low medical standard measured to 3 % we look good.
Come and see its kakalawaka kapitalism.
IF pay was based on result, bet they would run their asses of.

There was no Therapie, no follow up, there was only a lot of fuck up.
The nurse/s where nice [except 1 witch and that dr. Anal].

I learned doing nothing there and handle irritating people.
And how fucking in-human and dumb they were.
So it was clear how the impression of the utter dumbness.
That formed was based on a flawing system again.

Lost cause [the institution] wasted time and lost my cat

A relapse raid of at least 50 % for me DIY, minimal.
Then again WD-ed DIY from GHB/ GBL too.
Which the addiction Healthcare found pretty bizar.
Like impossible. But that s rate, aim / reality 100 %.

Then again they don t know XYREM,
which is prescribed GHB [narcolepsy]
so they could in theorie just prescribe it.
For GHB addiction or Alcohol. and wean em off.

in patient with that instead of a benzo that hardly work s.
GABA-b is GABA-b, so treating with GABA-a illogical.

Except for preventing a seizure.
Nut is recent G is so bad skin peels of, intestines hurt,
numbs the limbs and it gives tingles in the scalp. i was shocked.

Mine was DIY food grade GBL and pure NaOH PH measured.
Never had that.

They have to WD on their own trash they have to bring along.
Definition of medical retards.