Psychoactive Substances Bill and Benzodiazepines - A Presentation

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Yeah, I realise I went from an unsupported claim to discussing negatives. My opinion is, the MPA high is a more enjoyable high than the 3-FPM high, although the 3-FPM high is more practical to enjoy for an extended period. Also on the peak thing, it should be noted that if you gave the first dose of MPA time to mostly wear off, you did get back to a good state afterwards (though the time I'm drawing this from, I was at a gig, so there was a bit of outside influence skewing the experience).

Thanks. I wasn't being awkward, I've never had MPA so was genuinely interested. However, the MPA reports I've seen led me to the conclusion it wasn't recreational at all, whereas there was just something in the initial 3fpm reports that piqued my interest. Christ, am I glad they did...

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Useful little sideshow. I don't know where you get the idea that health care professionals don't take impending problems caused by the psb seriously though, dug teams are well aware of the carnage it is going to cause for benzo addicted users.

 

[steewith2ees]

Useful little sideshow. I don't know where you get the idea that health care professionals don't take impending problems caused by the psb seriously though, dug teams are well aware of the carnage it is going to cause for benzo addicted users.

I could be unlucky to be under the care of a seriously uninformed team at my local drug service provider, but when I gave my key worker and consultant a draft copy to read back in November they had never heard of Etizolam or any of the other NPS benzos mentioned, so I hold little hope that the majority of front line hcp's have a clue as to whats about to hit them anyway. I also stated that all of the anecdotal reports Ive read on BL and similar forums give the impression that any patient presenting with dependencies on these drugs have been sent away with no advice or treatment (this includes a BL mod who was given a negligible supply of chlordiazopoxide after self reporting a dependency on high dose Diclazepam). The health care industry simply treats benzodiazepine dependence as a catch all problem, and as a result do not differentiate between those addicted to NPS or pharmaceuticals, a distinction that is going to become very apparent come April 1st. Not at any point in their history have benzodiazepines been sold on mass freely without prescription or taken by so many people in such ridiculous amounts. If anyone had a real clue as to the devastation that's coming on April 1st there would be at least some interest from those in the media or those who profess to impart health education or promotion. But what preparations have actually been taken? They banned Phenazepam, and then went on to completely ignore the other 10 or so benzodiazepine drugs that have remained freely available to anyone with a credit card since. They are seriously under the impression that as soon as these drugs are banned, the public will be safe.

If they took the situation at all seriously you would see this information on public safety adverts, posters etc rather than just within a rather unprofessional looking slideshow buried within a specialist drugs forum.

 

[steewith2ees]

A bit off-topic but it occurs to me the phenyl=>thienyl ring switch seems like it was a lot more effective for benzos than for amphetamines. MPA's duration is a joke, no matter how the effects hold up, whereas (although I have no firsthand experience, and frankly I don't really want to) it seems like thienodiazapenes are a lot more similar in action to their benzo relatives.

Theinodiazepines dont all behave like benzodiapines, as is evident with Olanzepine, a Theinodiazpeine atypical antipsychotic whos effects couldn't be more different to etizolam and its cousins if they tried.

 

[Eveleivibe]

I could be unlucky to be under the care of a seriously uninformed team at my local drug service provider, but when I gave my key worker and consultant a draft copy to read back in November they had never heard of Etizolam or any of the other NPS benzos mentioned, so I hold little hope that the majority of front line hcp's have a clue as to whats about to hit them anyway. I also stated that all of the anecdotal reports Ive read on BL and similar forums give the impression that any patient presenting with dependencies on these drugs have been sent away with no advice or treatment (this includes a BL mod who was given a negligible supply of chlordiazopoxide after self reporting a dependency on high dose Diclazepam). The health care industry simply treats benzodiazepine dependence as a catch all problem, and as a result do not differentiate between those addicted to NPS or pharmaceuticals, a distinction that is going to become very apparent come April 1st. Not at any point in their history have benzodiazepines been sold on mass freely without prescription or taken by so many people in such ridiculous amounts. If anyone had a real clue as to the devastation that's coming on April 1st there would be at least some interest from those in the media or those who profess to impart health education or promotion. But what preparations have actually been taken? They banned Phenazepam, and then went on to completely ignore the other 10 or so benzodiazepine drugs that have remained freely available to anyone with a credit card since. They are seriously under the impression that as soon as these drugs are banned, the public will be safe.

If they took the situation at all seriously you would see this information on public safety adverts, posters etc rather than just within a rather unprofessional looking slideshow buried within a specialist drugs forum.

Glad you've taken the time to do this, Stee. I've reiterated my concern for a friend if mine on here a few times now so it's grear that you're trying to promote awarwnwss. It is concerning that a lot of these organisations dom't really know what RCs are with some assuming that they're all version of carnaboids. They don't seem to realize that they're aplit into drug drug groups thevsame that banned druga are

Evey.

 

[Treacle]

If you can buy legal drugs online, you can buy their illegal superiors. I don't know whether that's helpful, or not, but I'm confused as to why people continue to try and replace tried and tested drugs with inferior shite. MPA is absolutely nothing like meth, despite being an analogue. The last few RCs I've tried have been shocking. The government obviously share my view that everyone should be forced into taking illegal drugs.

 

[steewith2ees]

Ive found most of the NPS benzodiazepines to be as potent and effective as their pharm counterparts, and Ive taken most of the ones in major use at one point or another (flunitrazepam obviously eludes me). I dont use the darknet, and I have limited access to diverted parmeceutical clonazepam as well as a small diazepam script from my GP, which is the only way i would be able to obtain benzodiazepines if it wasn't for the easily availability of NPS benzos from online vendors. These are not inferior versions, over the course of my life I have taken significant amounts of diazepam, temazepam, clonazepam, lorazepam, chlordiazopoxide, oxazepam, alprazolam, midazolam, bromazepam and the non - benzodiazepine Clobazam. The potency and effect of my 2 preferred NPS benzos (Flubromazepam and Clonitrazolam) can go toe to toe with any of the medicines I have listed above. When it comes other types of NPS I would agree, the only 2 that I would rate alongside all the controlled drugs I have taken are 3-fpm and 1-P LSD.

 

[Eveleivibe]

If The government obviously share my view that everyone should be forced into taking illegal drugs.

Lol this gave me a chuckle

Never had meth but yea I agree that MPA isn't good. Personally I've never bought any drugs off the street. When I was addicted to codeine I boughtbthe 60mg pills from online illegal pharmacies - along with the normal other stuff from pharmacies n legal online pharmacied and latest RCs from online vendors. The drug dealer around here is a right nasty piece of work. He sets fire to people's houses when they annoy him. So I would not fwel very confident going near him. Plus there's no chance of me going to jail at mo. I can't risk that having a child to look after. Once April is here I personally want to be offall substances.

Ive found most of the NPS benzodiazepines to be as potent and effective as their pharm counterparts, and Ive taken most of the ones in major use at one point or another (flunitrazepam obviously eludes me). I dont use the darknet, and I have limited access to diverted parmeceutical clonazepam as well as a small diazepam script from my GP, which is the only way i would be able to obtain benzodiazepines if it wasn't for the easily availability of NPS benzos from online vendors. These are not inferior versions, over the course of my life I have taken significant amounts of diazepam, temazepam, clonazepam, lorazepam, chlordiazopoxide, oxazepam, alprazolam, midazolam, bromazepam and the non - benzodiazepine Clobazam. The potency and effect of my 2 preferred NPS benzos (Flubromazepam and Clonitrazolam) can go toe to toe with any of the medicines I have listed above. When it comes other types of NPS I would agree, the only 2 that I would rate alongside all the controlled drugs I have taken are 3-fpm and 1-P LSD.

You make a veru valid point about them being dofferent strengths. I've only tried diclaz but by what others have told me this isn't as strong as the othets. It really is very foolish if these people don't leaen aboutnthis now in order to try n help patient who arebstill dependent. It's worrying when people can't go to their doctors because they can't test for RC benzos n then do not offee scripts, as has been the case for someome I talk to om here.


Evey

 

[steewith2ees]

I think u might have the wrong end of the stick Evey, the point Im trying to make is that NPS benzos are identical to their pharm counterparts. Even Diclazepam is stronger than Diazepam (10 times as strong) but its effects are so subtle compared to other benzos that users often do not realise how twisted they are. Flubromazepam, Clonitrazolam and Pyrazolam feel just as potent as many benzos used in medicine and have comparable abuse potentials (if you are one of the many people who find the classic 'benzed' out feeling recreational on its own)

 

[Eveleivibe]

Yes I did miaunderstand but know what you're trying to say now. Apologies. And thanks for explaining. I hope you're able to get the message accross.

(Personalky when I tried diclaz I felt fine but there were gaps which I dont remember refused to try benzos since)

Evey

 

[steewith2ees]

The first time I used Diclazepam I took 4mg. 3 hours later I definitely felt a little 'benzed' and very relaxed, but found the overall effect very underwhelming when compared to my expectations from a benzodiazepine.

So I went out to score some gear. It was only when I ran into the back of another car that I realised how much I had underestimated their effect on me.

Needless to say I havn't driven under the influence of any drug since (apart from ganja of course)

Dont worry tho folks, the public is now safe, as I had to surrender my driving license when I was started on MMT.

 

[Sprout]

Diclazepam: the only drug that is too effective to be appreciated.

 

[BecomingJulie]

I found Diclazepam to be like a benzo on benzos, just by the way it moves so slowly. You practically need to take it the morning of the day when you want a good night's sleep that night, and its general CNS depressant effects linger on well into the following day. Hardly surprising, really, given that half of it's still kicking around your system five days later.

I suppose it's O.K. in an emergency, if there is nothing else available.

Etizolam, on the other hand, had the opposite problem: it kicks in, does its stuff and gets excreted far too soon, leaving me in that woken-up-from-benzos state where the only thing keeping me awake is the utter impossibility of sleep .....

 

[Community Justice]

It really is very foolish if these people don't leaen aboutnthis now in order to try n help patient who arebstill dependent. It's worrying when people can't go to their doctors because they can't test for RC benzos n then do not offee scripts, as has been the case for someome I talk to om here.

Why on earth should the doctors be 'offering scripts'? A rapid detox - similar to that offered to alcoholics - is all that would be necessary from a humane, medical point of view. Instead, the majority of these so-called victims expect their own lack of self control to be indulged and subsidised by working people. Those who have the wherewithal and the courage to manage their own intake will already have taken steps to do so. Once again, we will create an army of state-subsidised drug users, which is exactly what the neoliberal projects needs in order to consolidate its defeat of the working class. Drugs are the enemy of the Revolution.

 

[steewith2ees]

Why on earth should the doctors be 'offering scripts'? A rapid detox - similar to that offered to alcoholics - is all that would be necessary from a humane, medical point of view. Instead, the majority of these so-called victims expect their own lack of self control to be indulged and subsidised by working people. Those who have the wherewithal and the courage to manage their own intake will already have taken steps to do so. Once again, we will create an army of state-subsidised drug users, which is exactly what the neoliberal projects needs in order to consolidate its defeat of the working class. Drugs are the enemy of the Revolution.

Theres no such thing as a 'rapid detox' when it comes to benzodiazepine detoxification, its as much use as stopping them cold turkey - the only safe way to detoxify someone from these drugs is to taper them as slowly as is safe to do so without the patient experiencing DT like symptoms or in worst case scenarios, Tonic - clonic seizures.

If your going to come onto a specialist drugs forum and sermonise, first make sure you have at least a faint clue about what your actually talking about.

 

[Community Justice]

Why the huffing and puffing? I'm simply saying that benzo detoxes can be carried out in a much shorter timespan than that advocated by benzodiazepine apologists. In any case, there is no evidence to suggest that novel 'benzodiazepine' addicts should be treated the same way as those with longstanding legitimate dependencies. Here's a short summary of just one successful rapid detox programme in the US: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18821451.

 

[Ceres]

Why on earth should the doctors be 'offering scripts'? A rapid detox - similar to that offered to alcoholics - is all that would be necessary from a humane, medical point of view. Instead, the majority of these so-called victims expect their own lack of self control to be indulged and subsidised by working people. Those who have the wherewithal and the courage to manage their own intake will already have taken steps to do so. Once again, we will create an army of state-subsidised drug users, which is exactly what the neoliberal projects needs in order to consolidate its defeat of the working class. Drugs are the enemy of the Revolution.

People who have problems tackling addictions are not identical, with every individual having a unique and complicated array of factors which influence the outcome of any treatment program. Your dehumanising language is apalling and extremely ignorant.

 

[Treacle]

I'm intrigued to know who Community Justice is. Haha.

Yeah, the RC benzos I've tried have been comparable to their illegal counterparts. It's easy to see how people have gotten into a mess with them, and a proper taper is needed.

 

[Community Justice]

Every drug addicted individual shares a common characteristic: they are the enemies of themselves, of their communities and of their class. Only when they are liberated can they begin to discover and to assert their individuality, Until then they are a mere tool of neoliberal imperialist forces.

 

[Ceres]

hahahahaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. SEIG HEIL.

interesting, you blame the dealers, then 'neoliberalist imperalist forces' - at the same time blaming their victims. Who don't you blame for the worlds woes?