Psychedelics

[Xorkoth]

Psychedelic means "mind-manifesting". The trips are creations of your mind so if you use it in a spiritual manner then it will be spiritual.
If you use them for fun then they will be simply just fun.

The problem with psychedelics for me is that they show you whatever but it truly is useless until you implement whatever good knowledge you learned from your trip into your life.

I agree with you. The only thing I want to say is that the first trip I ever had, I just went into it to see what would happen because I didn't know. I expected fun and craziness. I didn't even think spiritual experiences were a real thing because I didn't believe in spirituality. What I got, though, was an intense spiritual awakening. Of course I am the type of person who is drawn to spirituality, I just didn't realize it before psychedelics because my rebellion against organized religion was blocking it.

 

[mb-909]

To me psychedelic's seem to be misterious in some ways, because the "normal" perception is altered. Human kind always tried to explain the world and if something wasn't understood, such as "thunder" for example, fear evolved. To counter this feeling, which seems to be a natural reaction, religion and believes were created. Knowing and accepting relaxes and makes life easier. If we would know how we were created for example many believes would be crushed, which is good and bad at the same time. In the end it doesn't matter what you believe in as long as it gives you power to live and overcome your hardships (violence, discrimination and sects, destroying one's life, are excluded, in my opinion). We simply don't know what is true and what is not and therefor we shouldn't judge, as stupid as it may seem.

I am believing in myself and try to adapt new knowledges from my experiences. That's all I can do.

 

[Ninae]

I make a lot of jokes now that learning to listen to trees talking saved me but it really is no joke.

What did they say? I experience the consciousness of trees more as a kind of unconscious and pure spiritual expression. But more on the level of emotion, or I don't interpret their energy into thoughtforms (not that I don't think it can be). I guess this is really a form of mediumship ability and you can channel plants too.

Once there was a TV show about a woman in my region who could communicate telepathically with pets. There was a cat in the house she visited and she said he said he wanted more fish, he wanted lots and lots of fish (after that I started giving my cat mostly fish). He also said there was a member of the family who was worrying a lot about having to lose weight and he didn't think that was any way to think about oneself.

 

[Ninae]

Of course I am the type of person who is drawn to spirituality, I just didn't realize it before psychedelics because my rebellion against organized religion was blocking it.

This is one of my pet-hates. Too many seem happy to lose out on the spiritual dimension of life as long as they're at least rebelling against organised religion. This can also become a trap that holds you back or anything remotely connected to organised religion is a no-no.

But it can be very hard to get through to someone with this mindset or even make them understand what you mean as they tend to believe it's only the hold organised religion has over you that is the basis of all your "delusions". Even if you've never been involved in organised religion, but it's enough to share some of these traits, like a faith in God and the afterlife. It's one of my least favourite arguments as it can be impossible to get anywhere until they have some kind of realisation for themselves.

At the same time you shouldn't be too hard on people as this can be a life's work for many. Although you can be more able to get through to people when you know what it feels like.

 

[socko]

What did they say? I experience the consciousness of trees more as a kind of unconscious and pure spiritual expression. But more on the level of emotion, or I don't interpret their energy into thoughtforms (not that I don't think it can be). I guess this is really a form of mediumship ability and you can channel plants too.

Once there was a TV show about a woman in my region who could communicate telepathically with pets. There was a cat in the house she visited and she said he said he wanted more fish, he wanted lots and lots of fish (after that I started giving my cat mostly fish). He also said there was a member of the family who was worrying a lot about having to lose weight and he didn't think that was any way to think about oneself.

If you look at a tree from a "shamanistic" point of view, there is a whole world in that tree. I spent a year in the wilderness and mostly off the grid, and i looked at and into a lot of trees. I talked to them and the fairies that lived in them. And they "talked" back in their own way: "love is the only thing that's real." Sounds like a cliché, heh?
My cat would send me telepathic messages when I accidentally locked him out. I would see his big gold eyes looking at me, silently trying to tell me he was locked out and wanted in.

 

[Ninae]

I can also have a lot of those thoughts out in nature. There's a very positive or high spiritual energy that you tend to translate into beauiful thoughts anyway. Almost seems like it tunes you into our high-level collective consciousness.

 

[Voyager3]

I have wonderful memories of a 'trip to the woods', which took place atop a large hill/little mountain, in deepest, darkest Wales. This was before I 'came out' as a medium, one of the few occasions I heard a voice and decided to play along and talk to it, rather than justignore it and put it down to the LSD. To my amazement, delight and slight alarm, I found myself talking to (what I sensed and felt was) a powerful nature spirit, surrounded by an intense energy that was both very benevolent, but also intensely evil - no other word for it? These forces were in perfect balance, spine tinglingly intense, and I actually found a little notebook and wrote down the gist of what was said. Apparently he (for it was no doubt male) had many names, had been round for a very long time (had an image of Iron/Bronze Age people and beyond)... he rarely left the 'deep peace' of places like the one we were in, which was very, very far off the beaten track indeed)... and I sensed this was Pan, why I don't know? I felt it was also Cerunnous, the Wiccan god, and this was a very special, precious moment, not to be forgotten or 'wasted'. I quite understand that some may mock, doubt or put it down to a 'townie' like me being overwhelmed by the beauties of nature, and the beauty and power of Liquid Acid, which I don't dimiss myself, all I know is 'what I know and felt', which was fantastic in every way.

I eventually asked why we were talking, as it seemed he made the first move, yet made no demands... and received no worship nor praise, just a load of probably insolent and tiresome questions. I did eventually ask what I should do, and received a 'virtual shrug' , then a load of mental images of trees, oceans and the Earth from space - and the sense of an ecological message, and the intrinsic sadness of this entity at the way things were going and changing. And, I suppose, a feeling I should pass this on if I wanted, and do whatever I could to help nature and dissuade the destructive efforts of man to encroach, destroy and pollute the environment. Not an instruction or command, just a hint that this was the way to go,and the thing to do, for the benefit of myself and mankind in general. And he then left.


This actually did make quite an impression, even though I already knew it made sense. I don't like to use the word 'god', this being was not human, felt very powerful, but also unhappy and somehow 'on the wane'. I have felt a much stronger connection with Nature ever since, rescuing exhausted bumble bees from the pavement on hands and knees without shame, stranded worms, birds, hedgehogs, mice and baby rats, and doing what I can to save trees, ponds and stop local road building - things I never did before. I also did a sketch of the scene, and painted it later on... not sure I can upload it here?


I have also become far more Spiritual and Spiritully aware, culminating in the discovery of my clairvoyance I suppose, and feel much happier and more 'complete' for doing so. As for 'religion', if I have one, is it in a constant state of flux, My greatest Epiphany was the moment I realised and accepted that I was not going to 'discover the Truth' for a long while, probably not in this lifetime, and it was time to just be patient, relax and take things as they come, with a truly open mind, tolerance for others and their opinions, and stick to my personal, essential principle - Do As You Wilt, As Long As It Harm None.


And so I worship no 'god' or 'gods' on a regular basis, but am not above asking for 'help' where and whenever needed, from whatever entity I fancy might assist me. So far I have prayed to, and been most certainly helped by Hathor (who fixed my knee, and saved a nasty operation), Odin (for wisdom, determination and common sense), Thor (for determination in the face of adversity), Mars, Tewes and Aries (spiritual and physical adversity), and Venus/Aphrodite/Freya (matters of love - NB be careful what you wish for, as you just might get it!). Therefore I am not really an Atheist, such prayers to these 'gods' are in my book just prayers or spells (the same thing IMHO) to an aspect of God - who is something far too complicated and remote from humanity to ask for favours, or be bothered, or interested in our tiny, brief lives on Earth. In other words, if it might work, why not give it a try - whether psychologically on my mind, or spiritually in ways I can't understand or explain.... worth a try....?

 

[p-helix]

If you look at a tree from a "shamanistic" point of view, there is a whole world in that tree. I spent a year in the wilderness and mostly off the grid, and i looked at and into a lot of trees. I talked to them and the fairies that lived in them. And they "talked" back in their own way: "love is the only thing that's real." Sounds like a cliché, heh?

Yes, trees are great, even without considering all the magic, circles, colour, energy and beauty of the tree, it is a mammoth habitat and ecosystem of bacteria, viruses, fungi, insects, plants and animals, that mutually depend on the tree for their existence. Love and life.

My cat would send me telepathic messages when I accidentally locked him out. I would see his big gold eyes looking at me, silently trying to tell me he was locked out and wanted in.

Cats are beautiful but you the reason your cat was sending you telepathic messages was because you knew you locked him out, you could be deliberately careless about this because of a mutual empathy, interdependence and love, a symbiotic friendship with your cat which was a type of magic based on love. It's good how any type of relationship can experience this type of communication, tree, cat or human being.

 

[Xorkoth]

Absolutely... my cats and I communicate very deeply and frequently. They're beautiful creatures.

 

[Ninae]

The cat I have now is the best I've had and I think he's an angelcat or has that kind of holy look about him some animals can have (very high-consciousness). He can project a very powerful sense of love through eye-contact and body-language, and arouse strong feelings of love in me, and I exchange powerful spiritual energy with him.

Like sending him blessing and healing energy, like I'm sometimes inspired to do for someone (sometimes I get the impulse to bless someone throughout all their life from they were born ((I don't think time exists on that level)), it's very special and feels like a very high-level energy going through you).

But I think animals can take some of the role of children for those who don't have children, or be a presence of a pure spiritual being in your life that only provokes the highest feelings (grown humans are a bit more variable like that).

 

[Xorkoth]

One of my cats I believe is some sort of forest spirit embodied in a cat... she's such a powerful creature. One time something happened that was unexplainable (actually twice, one time when she was young she recovered overnight from a lethal medical condition and the doctor said it was a medical miracle and he has no way of explaining it)... I was downstairs, and she was laying on the couch. I went over to pet her and then sprinted upstairs instantly (I always run up stairs 2 at a time). I always look down while I'm running up the stairs because my cats like to run in front of me (they are excited when I go upstairs because they hope it's time to snuggle in bed). She definitely did not run up the stairs with me. My room is RIGHT at the top of the stairs... I had just pet her as she laid down calmly not 5 seconds earlier, and as I walked into my room, she pushed the closet door open and emerged from the closet. It was pretty crazy, as far as I can tell, she teleported. I wasn't on anything, I was stone cold sober, and it definitely happened, that I cannot deny.

 

[Ninae]

Teleportation, that's more than I can say I've experienced.

 

[swilow]

Absolutely... my cats and I communicate very deeply and frequently. They're beautiful creatures.

I'm getting Miss Willow a cat for her birthday. We are going to adopt one from the local animal shelter which has fuckloads atm. Poor little things But we will try to help.

I used to have intense and deep communication with Henry, my beautiful Rottweiler. He was a gentle and nervous dog who needed a lot of assurance that anything anomalous in his environment was safe, and I loved being able to show him that. He seemed to appreciate my efforts. His fear subsided and by the end of his life, he was quite cocky and self-assured. I couldn't make him feel safe with words and rationality, I had to show him over and over, and it worked eventually. I think it shows us that words are only one way to convey information and that emotion and action is another form of living communication.

 

[zuvulu]

L like how this forum does not separate philosophy from spirituality like they do at The Shroomery, and hence most of the members and most if not all the mods are the most arrogant little hitlers who push their materialistic bias on those who dare question it and are ban happy making the rules up as they go along to silnce people who questioning their mechanistic philosophy.
So, with that out of the way. I would say the term 'spirit' is a very loaded term to begin with. So that would be the first thing I would ask who claimed psychedelics didn't inspire spiritual experience 'what do you mean by spiritual?'

In the Chriistian myth they put their 'great spirit', 'God' in the sky, and although they claim 'him' omni-present', it is more like a CCTV type of presence looking and judging whose gonna heaven or hell. Mature is suppsed to be fallen, our natures are supposed to be sinful, and 'satan' rules the air'. So it is a very paranoid belief!!
THAT understanding of spirit is completely different from a Goddess understanding which is non-dualistic and sees spirit as dynamically intervwoven with what we call 'matter'

When i was first turned onto LSD when I was 15, these very powerful experience did something profound. To cot a long story short, as a little bow I had had a magical sense of nature, but from about8/9 to 15 the culture had totally dulled me to nature and I was obsessed with big cities. I was bored in nature and would throw litter at it. LSD changed all that radically. the best part of the trips for me were the 'come downs' when we would leave the flat/apartment )the friends I was tripping with) and walk out side at dawn past gardens and into parks. And it was here I began to see all of nature with magical eyes, all alive. I had got my spirit back! I had lost my spirit and now had got it back.

 

[r_isomer]

My first journey with psilocybin opened my eyes to so, so much. I found an honest connection with nature, and it really did change the way I viewed the world and my life. It got me into the sciences, biotechnology and proteomics specifically, and left me with a positive afterglow for a number of years. I haven't been able to experience any hallucinogens lately, but am overdue for another look into my life to "reset my compass" so to speak. I find they open the mind up and really allow you to think without the burden of the ego.

 

[Ninae]

"The problem with man is that he attempts to hide from his rightful place and from his God, his Father, through a smokescreen of complicated theories and religious practices and self-indulgent concepts. But the faster he runs, and the further he runs, the more he runs into the ultimate to what he cannot escape."

Could also be called rising in vibration/consciousness or heart/crown chakra opening. Hinduism has many good terms for this and ways of explaining.

 

[smitty704]

I would also add on top of that statement that, in my opinion, there seems to be some kind of intelligence/force that recognizes when the user is ready to receive revelations. Whether this is a part of yourself or something else I don't know for sure, but it seems to me those who allow and make space within themselves are those who tend to have the spiritual breakthroughs.

I agree about the higher intelligence, "allowing" you to experience the spiritual side of psychedelics. Again, as already mentioned, it may never happen for some people. Some people might not be meant to experience these things.(I couldn't imagine my life like that)

But I genuinely feel that psychedelics are one of the tools, if not the primary tool, for humans to understand the universe, and the interconnectedness between all life forms on earth, and beyond.

I feel if you open your mind more, and understand God or this higher intelligence is probably not going to talk to you directly, look you dead in the eye, and send you on your way with a booklet about life(but again, I've never taken DMT ). It's about perspective, and psychedelics have changed mine for the better. Rant over.

 

[ForEverAfter]

^ You said that some people might not be meant to experience the spiritual side of psychedelics, but perhaps some people aren't meant to experience the spiritual side of dissociatives or opiates? Or, indeed, something non drug-related? Like religion? Or art? While I agree that psychedelics can be a useful tool, they are - more often than not - used for the opposite reason. To suggest that they might be the primary tool is baseless, IMO. Unless you selectively chose not to apply the logic that stems from your own observations -> If you recognize that you're capable of experiencing something that somebody else is not capable of, for whatever reason, then the same should apply in reverse. It's like Christianity calling all other religions false, and vice-versa. Altering your perspective should, I think, ideally, help you understand the limitations of your own. To say that you "couldn't imagine life (without being able to spiritually benefit from psychedelics)" is like saying that you "couldn't imagine life (without being able to benefit from Jesus Christ)". If psychedelics truly help you understand the interconnectedness between all life forms, then why allow them - in any way - to disconnect you from others? The divide between drug-user and non drug-user is illusory. It makes no sense to separate ourselves from the sober world, in terms of our superior ability to gain insight into how we are all connected... I have had DMT and I, honestly, don't think it has much spiritual value relative to other substances. You can benefit from witnessing the limitations of your perspective, like I said before. In other words: sometimes it is helpful to be "snapped out of it", so to speak; there is a time and a place for a good old slap across your (cosmic) face and it is DMT. But there's not much to be learnt and it's all over before it began. In order to benefit, considering how overwhelming DMT is, the experience needs to be longer. (There is a direct proportional relationship, between the length of an experience and how confusing it is, that determines whether or not it's beneficial.) But, it doesn't need to be as confusing or hallucinatory in the first place, like the psychedelic experience. Opiates - for example - allow you to connect with the universe, without being overwhelmed, over-thinking anything or (potentially) getting confused. I've met a lot of anxious, confused ex-psychedelic users. People that have clearly been harmed by psychedelics. Either physically, spiritually or psychologically. Or a combination of the three. Long-term, people tend to fall apart with any drug from my observations. It takes longer with some, then others. Some people might have one tab of acid and flip out. Another person might have 500 before they eventually flip. The vast, vast majority of people don't make it in the end. And time will tell on those remaining. Heroin is peaceful and spiritual. When you're on it, everything makes sense. When you come of it, your retain some of that peace. Because you remember a time when it all made sense, like you do with psychedelics. If you stay on too long, you'll lose it altogether. And, either way, in the end neither the average ex-psychedelic users or the average ex-heroin/opiate users can explain what it is that they remember. You say you understand the universe, through psychedelics. But, can you explain the universe? Or do you just remember a time when it made sense?

 

[swilow]

^Perhaps psychedelics create the sensation (truly or not) that the universe is actually understandable. That sort of confidence really helps to negate the fear of alieness that I experience daily. For me, I've had the bad psychotic trip, blackouts, seizures, and kept going. If you do psychedelics enough, they will bit you, but the bite can be superficial if you've been paying atention.

I'm not sure I can agree with your brief remarks on heroin. But regarding DMT; I hardly ever smoke it now as it seems underwhelming after it's big bro ayahuasca. That is the real deal, long-lasting, unbelievably hallucinogenic, navigable but utterly alien, populated by otherness and mystery. Really spiritual in a way that presents a view of the universe that can be comprehended, as a vital/essential part of the universe. It seems feasible for an active part of a process to understand that process fully. Don't know if that is true, but another thing about the relativity of truth is that psychedelics can essentially brand your innereyelids with that understanding; your truth, my truth, not THE truth.

Good to see you here 4eva

 

[Samulson]

One of the more intriguing statements made by Bruce Lee, if applied to the concept of truth: "Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own."

Psychedelics are really only the vehicle you are in for the journey, not the destination. It is up to the driver to determine what that will be, and whether the vehicle is suitable for the desired journey.
They can at times though, provide you with a very fast and sleek spaceship, and a white knuckled thrill ride, as opposed to a long relaxing horse drawn cart journey. All depends upon how fast you want to get to wherever it is you are going.