Psychedelics, OCD and Inositol

[FreddieMercury]

I'm about to begin taking Inositol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inositol) in order to curtail my Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. I was wondering if anyone knew (or, based on the info provided on Wiki, could surmise) how Inositol would interact with either LSD or Mushrooms, should I decide to trip sometime in the next few months. Any and all info or advice would be appreciated!

 

[pofacedhoe]

i've been taking b vitamin complex for years (for bipolar) with inositol in it in high doses and it has no interactions in my experience

 

[Solipsis]

Hmm I can't think of a way how inositol phosphate signaling and the MOA of LSD would be connected but then again my knowledge on this is limited.

You can probably expect reactions that point out that interactions are largely unknown but are not expected to be problematic IMO.

This is definitely a thread for ADD though. So moving PD >> ADD.

 

[sekio]

Inositol should pose almost no effect on the psyche, it's just a sugar.

 

[Solipsis]

Yes we would think that, but:

It seems that inositol is converted by the body to two secondary neurotransmitter chemicals that enhance the action of serotonin in the brain.

linky

There is a lot to find on it at all in no time at all, on relevance to OCD, anxiety and depression. I have not reviewed any actual papers though.

Inositol-1,4,5-trisphosphate (InsP3) depletion has been implicated in the therapeutic action of bipolar disorder drugs, including valproic acid (VPA).

http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/67/5/1426.full

 

[sekio]

myo-Inositol (free of phosphate) was once considered as a member of the vitamin B complex, however, because it is produced by the human body from glucose, it is not an essential nutrient. Some substances such as niacin can also be synthesized in the body, but are not made in amounts considered adequate for good health, and thus are still classified as essential nutrients. However, there is no convincing evidence that this is the case for myo-inositol.

[...]

Phytic acid, which is inositol hexakisphosphate (IP6), also known as phytate when in salt form, is the principal storage form of phosphorus in many plant tissues, especially bran and seeds. Neither the inositol nor the phosphate in phytic acid in plants is available to humans, or to animals who are not ruminants, since it cannot be broken down, except by bacteria. Moreover, phytic acid also chelates important minerals such as calcium, magnesium, iron, and zinc, making them unabsorbable, and contributing to mineral deficiencies in people whose diets rely highly on bran and seeds for their mineral intake, such as occurs in developing countries.

[...]

Inositol has been used as an adulterant (or cutting agent) in many illegal drugs, such as cocaine, methamphetamine, and sometimes heroin. It is presumed that this use is connected with one or more of the substance's properties of solubility, powdery texture, or reduced sweetness (50%) as compared with more common sugars.

Given the presence of inositol in food (& relatively low BA), and the fact it is made in the body, I see no real reason to claim dietary inositol will do anything in healthy individuals. You are definitely correct that the absence of inositol or its phosphates would likely make supplementation efficacious.

 

[FreddieMercury]

Hmm, thanks for the responses guy. Perhaps this will sharpen the question: if my serotonin receptors become more stimulated, and my serotonin levels increase, how would this affect an LSD or Mushroom trip?

 

[Exstazy]

Hmm, thanks for the responses guy. Perhaps this will sharpen the question: if my serotonin receptors become more stimulated, and my serotonin levels increase, how would this affect an LSD or Mushroom trip?

Would probably make them better and more enjoyable, it will "feel" better..
But mind over matter bro.. I have had OCD tendencies. On a 3g mushroom trip I felt like I became more aware and more sure of myself. Magic Mushrooms can be a great help to sort of remove it.
Work out, eat healthy - this will help your happy stuff in the brain I assure you

 

[sekio]

Perhaps this will sharpen the question: if my serotonin receptors become more stimulated, and my serotonin levels increase, how would this affect an LSD or Mushroom trip?

It's honestly impossible to tell, and dependent on how you're elevating serotonin production. Serotonin receptors do not suddenly become more sensitive on their own.
Generally though, higher post-synaptic levels of monoamines like serotonin results in your body eventually decreasing serotonin production & sensitivity of serotonin receptors to compensate. For instance, SSRI drugs are generally reported as making psychedelics less effective. (they do not increase serotonin production, just decrease serotonin re-absorbtion)

Honestly I would not be worried about biochemical nit-grit, just try it and see, there is very little that could go awry. Inositol is found in the diet anyway.

 

[fettered]

Given the presence of inositol in food (& relatively low BA), and the fact it is made in the body, I see no real reason to claim dietary inositol will do anything in healthy individuals. You are definitely correct that the absence of inositol or its phosphates would likely make supplementation efficacious.

But in 12-18g+ doses a day does make a difference in psychiatric patients with disorders that are classically treated with serotonergic drugs, which includes OCD. I can also speak from experience with the supplement:

Inositol is a simple polyol precursor in a second messenger system important in the brain. Cerebrospinal fluid inositol has been reported as decreased in depression. A double-blind controlled trial of 12 g daily of inositol in 28 depressed patients for four weeks was performed. Significant overall benefit for inositol compared to placebo was found at week 4 on the Hamilton Depression Scale. No changes were noted in hematology, kidney or liver function. Since many antidepressants are effective in panic disorder, twenty-one patients with panic disorder with or without agoraphobia completed a double-blind, placebo-controlled, four week, random-assignment crossover treatment trial of inositol 12 g per day. Frequency and severity of panic attacks and severity of agoraphobia declined significantly with inositol compared to placebo. Side-effects were minimal. Since serotonin re-uptake inhibitors benefit obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) and inositol is reported to reverse desensitization of serotonin receptors, thirteen patients with OCD completed a double-blind controlled crossover trial of 18 g inositol or placebo for six weeks each. Inositol significantly reduced scores of OCD symptoms compared with placebo. A controlled double-blind crossover trial of 12 g daily of inositol for a month in twelve anergic schizophrenic patients, did not show any beneficial effects. A double-blind controlled crossover trial of 6 g of inositol daily vs. glucose for one month each was carried out in eleven Alzheimer patients, with no clearly significant therapeutic effects. Antidepressant drugs have been reported to improve attention deficit disorder (ADDH) with hyperactivity symptomatology. We studied oral inositol in children with ADDH in a double-blind, crossover, placebo-controlled manner. Eleven children, mean age 8.9±3.6 years were enrolled in an eight week trial of inositol or placebo at a dose of 200 mg/kg body weight. Results show a trend for aggravation of the syndrome with myo-inositol as compared to placebo. Recent studies suggest that serotonin re-uptake inhibitors are helpful in at least some symptoms of autism. However a controlled double-blind crossover trial of inositol 200 mg/kg per day showed no benefit in nine children with autism. Cholinergic agonists have been reported to ameliorate electroconvulsive therapy (ECT)-induced memory impairment. Inositol metabolism is involved in the second messenger system for several muscarinic cholinergic receptors. Inositol 6 g daily was given in a crossover–double-blind manner for five days before the fifth or sixth ECT to a series of twelve patients, without effect. These results suggest that inositol has therapeutic effects in the spectrum of illness responsive to serotonin selective re-uptake inhibitors, including depression, panic and OCD, and is not beneficial in schizophrenia, Alzheimer's, ADDH, autism or ECT-induced cognitive impairment.

Inositol treatment of obsessive-compulsive disorder

Single Photon Emission Computed Tomography (SPECT) in Obsessive–Compulsive Disorder Before and After Treatment with Inositol

Double-Blind, Controlled, Crossover Trial of Inositol Versus Fluvoxamine for the Treatment of Panic Disorder

Inositol versus placebo augmentation of serotonin reuptake inhibitors in the treatment of obsessive–compulsive disorder: a double-blind cross-over study

Further reading for the interested:

Chronic inositol increases striatal D2 receptors but does not modify dexamphetamine-induced motor behavior: Relevance to obsessive–compulsive disorder

Decreased Anterior Cingulate Myo-inositol/Creatine Spectroscopy Resonance with Lithium Treatment in Children with Bipolar Disorder


Inositol doesn't interact with serotonin nor its receptors, rather it is a secondary messenger to the serotonin 'system'. I'm probably butchering the understanding here, but I never noticed inositol interacting with any serotonergic drugs I've taken. Nothing at all like that dulling you'd get from SSRIs or loading up on tryptophan/5-HTP supplements and then trying to trip. If anything I felt the 25i and mushrooms I took even more acutely while supplementing with inositol. It definitely helped me from not obsessing while tripping, which is a terrifying experience. I never tried any MDM* drugs, as I turned to inositol for relief after fucking up my brain.

The obvious caveat here is the dosage you'd need to take for therapeutic effects exceeds the intake from a normal diet. You're going to have to buy bulk amounts for any kind of regimen, so save yourself the markup on the 8 oz bottles and grab a kilo on amazon for maybe twice the price.

 

[felixer]

I'm about to begin taking Inositol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inositol) in order to curtail my Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. I was wondering if anyone knew (or, based on the info provided on Wiki, could surmise) how Inositol would interact with either LSD or Mushrooms, should I decide to trip sometime in the next few months. Any and all info or advice would be appreciated!

I don't have an answer to your question, but just know that it's much more complex than a single supplement's impact on serotonin levels or neuronal sensitivity. Whether or not inositol will do anything for you really comes down to how your individual genetics affect methylation in your own body.

Since you're looking at inositol for OCD, it seems you want to use supplements to address your health issues. You should look at finding out if you're under/over methylating. This guy gives a easy to understand explanation: