Psychedelics and the occult

[burn out]

No it won't. The scientific explanations are often more complex, rich, and interesting than the supernatural explanations. One doesn't have to invent explanations to spice up the universe. It's already infinitely fascinating and beautiful.

So if it's already infinitely beautiful and fascinating then why aren't mythological explanations part of the beauty? I would argue that purely scientific explanations are often lacking in the areas of emotional content and meaning which are so vital to the human psyche. I for one certainly would not want to trade all poetry, folklore, literature, mythology, mysticism and religious books for more science books.

No, it's not. Rational thought is concerned with the objective by definition.

I think what he meant was that, whether an idea or belief is deemed "rational" is quite subjective. For example, some might say believing in telepathy was not rational. However if you came from a tribe of people who practiced telepathy on a regular bases, you would have a completely different view on that matter. And it is like this with many things. What's obviously true to one person, is considered irrational by the next. I agree that rationality is concerned with the objective, which is why in philosophy you study logic and its laws. But when you begin making interpretations about the world where there still many unknowns, then it becomes incredibly subjective.

 

[pupnik]

I think subconscious and occult are equivalent.
while stoned especially, all forms and phenomena seem part of consciousness.
the very idea of a subconscious to me seems as unfounded as are ghosts and religious myths.
the subconscious is another grab bag quick term for all the mental stuff for which we lack accurate vocabularies.

but when stuff is happening and we want to share, what words can we use, but the ones fixed n our minds even if they are relics of less enlightened eras.

 

[burn out]

I think subconscious and occult are equivalent.
while stoned especially, all forms and phenomena seem part of consciousness.

Not sure what you mean here. Why should being stoned make a difference? I mean, isn't the fact that being stoned causes a difference evidence for the subconscious? In other words, there are patterns working in our minds which we are not necessarily aware of day to day but which may become apparent when we are stoned or meditating perhaps?

the very idea of a subconscious to me seems as unfounded as are ghosts and religious myths.
the subconscious is another grab bag quick term for all the mental stuff for which we lack accurate vocabularies.

but when stuff is happening and we want to share, what words can we use, but the ones fixed n our minds even if they are relics of less enlightened eras.

I would agree that the subtle phenomena of mind can be exceedingly difficult to describe accurately but until you come up with a better system I don't really see your point.

 

[pupnik]

the point is, that, when stoned, consciousness is more exposed to your observing awareness(, but only if you are interested.)
normally we latch only onto firm-a-fied ideas in a sequential thought stream and ignore the ocean of fragmentary/momentary associations forming less obvious linkages to a "rational" thought process, or mental response to circumstances.

All that other stuff (the momentary fragments of ideation) get lumped into a category: "subconscious".

It is not sub. it is consciousness, and consciousness moves from one associative set of contents to the next set of contents via concertive associative relations (vectors or linkages) of both fragments and firm-a-fied memories and ideas. Referring to the ocean of fragments as subconscious gets us into a position in which we deny what we know to be true in favor of a mythological simplification, and that is the essence of superstition.

 

[burn out]

Oh I agree completely now that I understand what you mean more clearly.

 

[heatlessbbq]

 

[washingtonbound]

This is an interesting topic because people obviously have very highly differing views on the legitimacy of occultism, and spirituality in general is greatly debated among people. As an atheist/agnostic I lean towards skepticism, but I will say that I've felt a lot more in tune with other peoples vibrations so to speak after taking certain drugs. It's as if I can see directly through people and my "third eye" is on overdrive. So I would say that while I'm not sure I believe in evil spirits and the like, I definitely think that a higher consciousness exists of some sort that is out of the realm of our senses.

 

[pupnik]

our senses are out of the realm of our senses when stoned.
that's the main reason we do it.
realm expansion.

not too weird to see others noticing the same thing with expanded senses.