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Psychedelic / hallucinogenic opioids

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Loki Laufey

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Nov 15, 2005
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Are there any other known psychedelic opioids besides salvinorin? As far as I understand many opioids possess hallucinogenic properties, but there are more or less supplementary to the traditional properties of opiods (euphoria, anesthesia etc). But what about purely psychedelic opioids along the lines of salvinorin? Is anyone aware of any research going in this area?
 
I'm gonna leave this here for a minute and see where the conversation goes, but I hesitate to keep this here. I don't think of opioid hallucinations as being psychedelic at all... in fact, having experienced IV demerol in massive doses while in the hospital once, I would say it's more along the lines of the deleriants, or at the very least, having fever hallucinations. Very intense, yes, but not exactly tripping. More like dreaming.

But salvia, on the other hand, seems to be in a category of its own, and I'm not so sure that it is entirely correct to lump it with the opiates, even though it does seem to be opioid in nature.

Let's see where this goes before sending to Other Drugs...
 
Salvinorin is a kappa-opioid, so yes it is quite different to more traditional opioids. I am not sure if any other kappa opiods are known. Anyone?

Canis, I am curious about purely hallucinogenic opiods, not about opiods with hallucinogenic side-effects. According to Shulgin's Future Drugs of Abuse paper, there are myriads of the latter kind.
 
delerium is like a sustained psychedelic apprehension.
a dream or vision takes hold and replaces the primary sensory feed.
there are some specific deleriants like atropine
and I think the opiates are delerant in the phase between waking and dreaming.

psychedeics become deleriants at very high doses or when set and setting conspire to exhaust and befuddle the psychonaut.

salvia seems to be a psychedelic with easy access to delerium since it is so easy yet safe to take very highly effective doses that remain physically harmless.
 
I heard somewhere that Ketamine can have effects on Opiate "receptors", can anyone confirm this(i have no source)? Does this count?
 
Ketamine does have effects upon mu. Other dissociatives have even more...to the degree that you could call them a cross between a dissociative and an opiate. Check out the threat in AD about new things for 2007. Some discussion about this in there.
 
Salvia might act on the K-opioid receptors but has nothing in common with opiates.
It seems to be more of a category of its own, closer to 'psychedelics/entheogens' maybe..
 
i find morphene to be very hallucinogenic, open eyed

if you count the crazy dreams you have while nodding off on H, then yea that too

OC, not so much...maybe dreamlike like H but nothing like morphene

now when i say i hallucinate on morphene ill see people that arent there, hear voices that arent there, think that im places that i am not, deleria related distortion of sensory input, etc.

psychedellic? not at all.
 
THE WOOD said:
i find morphene to be very hallucinogenic, open eyed

if you count the crazy dreams you have while nodding off on H, then yea that too

OC, not so much...maybe dreamlike like H but nothing like morphene

now when i say i hallucinate on morphene ill see people that arent there, hear voices that arent there, think that im places that i am not, deleria related distortion of sensory input, etc.

psychedellic? not at all.
Click to expand...


exactly, psychedelics induce hallucinations, but any substance that induces 'hallucinations' is not necessarily psychedelic... ;)
 
I'm not much into Salvia,but is it really kappa which is responsible for this hardcore effects?Sometimes I just have a hard time to believe it.
 
I believe it ... I was on 20mg hydrocodon and about 4-5 hours later railed 2-3 lines of black tar cut with nytol sleep aid over the counter. Now, I cant be sure if it were the opiates or the nytol, but I was hallucinating! Inability to focus vision, flashes of light that would seem to be like lightning accompanied by a wooshing sound in the back of my mind but seemed so real.
 
I'm moving this over to ADD. There is already enough inaccuracy stated here and its more of a general drug question than a psychedelic specific question.

Salvinorin A, chemically speaking, is not an opioid. It has an effect on kappa opioid receptors, but thats not the same as actaully having the chemical structure of an opioid. And, as pointed out, Salvinorin A's effect on kappa opioid receptors is not anything like the effect we get from the opiates on mu opioid receptors.

DXM, chemically speaking, is an opiod. Ketamine, Nitrous oxide, PCP, and ether are not. As someone pointed out above, the dissociatives have some effect on mu opiod receptors, but other effects tend to dominate.

I find Kratom is a nice analgesic with stimulating dream like effects. Chemically though, its actually an indole, not an opioid. Its still much much more of a 'narcotic indole' than a 'psychedelic indole'. YMMV.
 
The definition of an opioid is not based on chemical structure; rather, an opioid is any substance that binds to an opioid receptor. Thus, Salvinorin A is in fact an opioid. Opiates, on the other hand, are either opium alkaloids or their semi-synthetic derivatives, and Salvinorin A is definitely not one of them.

The current state of pharmacological understanding of DXM, ketamine, and PCP holds that they primarily exert their psychoactive effects through use-dependent blockade of the NMDA receptor, and perhaps also as antagonists of metabotropic glutamate receptor subtypes II and III, which are presynaptic autoreceptors. Whether or not their actions on opioid receptors are psychopharmacologically relevant is a matter of great controversy. At recreational doses, ketamine and PCP may not even exert significant actions at opiate receptors, but nobody knows for sure because different studies have reported different binding affinities.
 
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