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psychedelic enlightenment my experience

How so red? I'm just saying I get nothing from meditation but a sore arse from sitting down. I think there's a fundamental limitation to how spiritual you can get while sober.

You don't need meditation to burn yourself to death tho - a guy did it in protest at the Prague spring. Political causes can lead you to self-sacrifice just as easily as meditation, in fact probably more easily.
 
Ismene said:
How so red? I'm just saying I get nothing from meditation but a sore arse from sitting down. I think there's a fundamental limitation to how spiritual you can get while sober.
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How so? Read the links. You sound really conservative.* "I think there's a fundamental limit blah blah blah" *As if you can never ever learn anything novel again, ever...
 
You sound like a hare krishna insisting that if I only chant krishna for 3 hours a day I'll feel great. Some things work for some people and not for others.

Must admit I'm not the best person to try and convince about these things tho red. I spent a decade not considering drugs at all - never touched a drug till I was 30 - convinced that if I studied buddhism, zen, bushido, meditation, eastern ways to peace mind that I'd feel better. And I still felt like shit. I wish somebody would've got hold of me when I was 20 and simply shook me and said "Forget all that fucking shit man, it's a waste of time. Take acid instead". I'dve saved soooo much time.
 
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Ismene said:
I'm just saying I get nothing from meditation but a sore arse from sitting down.
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Then you're doing it wrong, champ. Meditation isn't a panacea but if you're getting literally nothing from it, that's your fault. Meditation is good for you. So say spiritual authorities and secular scientific authorities together. Oh, and sitting down is not required, by the way.
 
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the context is way mixed up.

for example, if you toke up some weed, you feel it instantly. ---- INSTANT GRATIFICATION
or
if you drop acid you feel it within an hour more or less. ---- TOLERANCE MITIGATED PLANNED GRATIFICATION
but
if you meditate, you may or may not enter absorption if you concentrate well (1), and if you concentrate well and do not drift, you will attain some equanimity(2), and if you attain some equanimity, you may enter an enhanced state with jhana like experiences(3), and if you maintain the sustained concentration with equanimity you may enter a samadhi state(4). ---- NO GRATIFICATION FOR MOST WHO TRY

Usually you have to do it frequently and regularly to get (1) (maybe 65% of those who are interested), and if you do you may reach (2) (say 70 percent), and most that are persistent (~75 percent) do reach (3) and about 60 % of those who try actually get to (4), but this is not the purpose of absorptive meditation. So ~20 % of those who try get a good feel for what meditation can provide during the sitting.

1, 2, 3, and 4 are similar to what you may get on a good acid trip. jhana like experiences (3) include CEV, OEV etc.

Never the less, this is not the spiritual part of it, this is just the trappings, the visions mean nothing, the mandalas and visitations mean nothing, the feelings of timelessness and oneness mean nothing, they are distractions although they are very invigorating and charming.
This is where most aspirants fuck up miserably, often feeling like they are jesus re-incarnated or the next buddha or messiah.

the numbers are telling, maybe 1 in 5 people try and 1 in 5 of those get some samadhi that is one person in 100 who have any sense of what I mean, and of them more than half at least for some time think they are the cat's ass spiritually speaking, put here on earth to save the masses.

but like I said this is spiritual crap,
the real work is the practice, which means regular application of awareness and sitting by one's self with one's self and not reacting to all the phenomena of daily life for a period of time.

this builds a few important spiritual abilities:
the ability to be unmoved by triggers
the ability to remain present when others run away
the intent to witness things full circle
confidence
calmness

These abilities are hugely important in helping yourself and others through mental, spiritual, emotional challenges.
They do not come from one attempt of sitting, and they do not automatically come from dropping acid either.
 
Ismene said:
I don't think meditation is the link to spirituality that psychedelics offer tho. I never got anything spiritually from meditation like I get from psychedelics. I think the state that psychedelics create - the combination of activating old memories, heightening your feelings in a beautiful, gentle and achingly beautiful way, breathtaking physical euphoria - feeling like you're really alive for the first time in your life, feeling your body in ecstasy for the first time, all that combined with a spellbinding beauty and wonder at your surroundings. That's the thing that creates the spiritual feeling for me. It's as far from any standard religious dogma/meditation as I can imagine.
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you owe it to yourself to try loving kindness meditation. the euphoria, the bliss is amazing and I can reach it in 10 minutes and thats just the beginning of what meditation can do. just try mate!
 
ok , well you dont understand that you dont have a choice. we are all stuck into this circle of life. we are all buddhist without knowing it. Its simply a xplication of the universal laws: cause and effect. the more you meditate, the more you purify yourself.

if meditation doest work, its your fault and its because your doing it wrong. its saddens me to hear that, as Im in the process of changing my whole outlook on life because of meditaiton.

just try loving kindness mediation. you will see how much love you have inside and how much you can generate. and its much easier then breathing meditation because its a method that your mind is actually interested right away about the object that you visualize. while breathing meditation, you must understand to follow it with a beautiful interest, which seems a bit boring at first and not very interesting.

everytime you hate, judge, critic, your hurt yourself.
The more love you can feel for someone, the more love you have.
Ismene said:
You sound like a hare krishna insisting that if I only chant krishna for 3 hours a day I'll feel great. Some things work for some people and not for others.

Must admit I'm not the best person to try and convince about these things tho red. I spent a decade not considering drugs at all - never touched a drug till I was 30 - convinced that if I studied buddhism, zen, bushido, meditation, eastern ways to peace mind that I'd feel better. And I still felt like shit. I wish somebody would've got hold of me when I was 20 and simply shook me and said "Forget all that fucking shit man, it's a waste of time. Take acid instead". I'dve saved soooo much time.
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murphy,
it's a 1/100 chance that he will grok what you did.
you do it for your own purpose
 
murphythecat said:
and for other that may read me.

not sure why you had to say :you do it for your own purpose.
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your journey is personal,
the meditation journey especially is personal.
even the loving kindness (metta) trip is personal.
finding a buddy to walk that path with you seldom works out for either party.

trying to spread the good word puts you in the context of a jesuit missionary, not for the content, but for the sheer lunacy of marketing what has no form.
however, if you have backers, why not open up a meditation hall, and do your good work for 1 in a 100.
 
Visiting that crytal palace of DMT, I left with more questions than answers. I knew this would happen but I wasn't expecting it to be this reality shaking. It was so complex, alien, unseen and indescribable that I'm not sure it is a product of a human mind. But how could I verify that? There's no way. I either believe it's real and I got to tap into higher power while existing there as a multi-dimensional being (I barely remember how it feels but I did experience that) or it's all in my head, a drug induced trick of my brain. My dreams are based on this reality and feel more real to me than any drug yet nothing happens there that I think I should try to integrate. LSD only shows me a distorted image of this reality while enables me to ride the waves of music with my mind, literally (or maybe with ~150mics, I didn't take enough to get the entheogenic effects).
Maybe I'm just one of those people whom it doesn't matter what answer they get, they will never be satisfied....
 
max_freakout said:
This ^ is a typical meditationist justification for the sheer waste of time that is meditating.
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I have had many unconvincing meditations sessions, but after a while, it really becomes easier and it is so delightful. if one say that meditation never work for them, it is totally justified to say that hes doing something wrong as once you actually still the mind, its automatically pleasant. no way around it. stilness of the mind is utterly pleasant, even if you can only still it for half a second. but it takes practice and I guess some don't understand the point to do this.

everyone will say that its hard at the beginning because your mind is not use to it, but it gets easier and when it does, you are able to still the mind easily, and then your meditation is much pleasant. its a way of life. it becomes your natural state of being, you always search for that stillness, even in ordinary life because its much more fun that a mind that always thinks, ponder, stress.
 
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pupnik said:
your journey is personal,
the meditation journey especially is personal.
even the loving kindness (metta) trip is personal.
finding a buddy to walk that path with you seldom works out for either party.

trying to spread the good word puts you in the context of a jesuit missionary, not for the content, but for the sheer lunacy of marketing what has no form.
however, if you have backers, why not open up a meditation hall, and do your good work for 1 in a 100.
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I personally understand that there's nothing personal about reality: we are all connected. and purifying yourself affect everyone one around you for the better. so no good meditator do it for himself alone, he understand how beneficial it really is for everyone around him.

the more you love, the more you make others happy around you. the more you hate, the more you make yourself unhappy and also may affect other negatively.
 
max_freakout said:
This ^ is a typical meditationist justification for the sheer waste of time that is meditating.
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Can you link me to your peer reviewed study about how meditation is useless? And while you're at it tell me the techniques you used and how long you did it for.
 
murphythecat said:
if meditation doest work, its your fault and its because your doing it wrong. its saddens me to hear that, as Im in the process of changing my whole outlook on life because of meditaiton.
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I'm not saying it doesn't work for you murph but it simply doesn't make me any happier.

you owe it to yourself to try loving kindness meditation. the euphoria, the bliss is amazing and I can reach it in 10 minutes and thats just the beginning of what meditation can do. just try mate!

It's going to have to go some to beat 4 blotters of acid :)
 
murphythecat said:
I have had many unconvincing meditations sessions, but after a while, it really becomes easier and it is so delightful. if one say that meditation never work for them, it is totally justified to say that hes doing something wrong as once you actually still the mind, its automatically pleasant. no way around it. stilness of the mind is utterly pleasant, even if you can only still it for half a second. but it takes practice and I guess some don't understand the point to do this.
Click to expand...

How deep can you go with this tho? I can see how stilling the mind might help when you're stuck in a traffic jam but I wonder how does stilling the mind help with death? Can it make it anymore pleasant that you're never going to see someone you loved again?

LSD and mushrooms do have that power.
 
read about the jhanas.
ajahn brahm is famous for describing all the steps you will go thrue in meditation until you read the jhanas. the jhanas are the higher states one can reach with meditation.
ayya khema also describes the insights you will get with the first, second, third, fourth jhanas and what each of them teached you about the nature of reality
Ismene said:
How deep can you go with this tho? I can see how stilling the mind might help when you're stuck in a traffic jam but I wonder how does stilling the mind help with death? Can it make it anymore pleasant that you're never going to see someone you loved again?

LSD and mushrooms do have that power.
Click to expand...
 
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