Health psyche habit - attached to transformation?

[DexterMeth]

Stuck in the muck, the loops have you there

Take it like this........

At least you realize that you're addicted to psychedelics. Very VERY few people would ever admit that (for those who actually are mind you)<<and it's a MUCH bigger group than most people, hell, than I think. With psychedelic addiction, you can't determine the severity of it by any real convetional concepts...For instance, how often one trips/USES(!)*run kids!*...heh, ub t seriously, it's impossible to say how much use it oo much from one person to the next...and let's add into this equation something like, "oh yeah, and both of the girls (yes they are girls in this mkay?) being compaired have exact equalibrium when it comes to finances, indendence, sucess, a healthy social life, familial life, love life, etc. When it comes down to it, one sing;e psychedelic trip can and for many does end up being WAY TOO MUCH they did that year, and so on; as the person literally has no true reasons to "need"/need to trip anymore. That they've diven so deep, so many times down teh rabbit whole,comming up with the same conlusions and/or same CONCLUSION, every single time. So what exactly would be the point in tripping at all again? I can really see the relevance with someone that has started to partake in some serious yoga (or better yet in my closed off and ignorant opinion) and/or jumping fully into the official practicing of the great ancient Budhissm. Once one learns to meditate correctly, with ease, and with full passsion/spirit "attached" to it, they supposively dive oh so much farther and deeper than they ever could of or had during a psychdedelic trip...using very smart and ingenious cemicals to be the catalytic-tickets in the journey of the soul..the here and now of our collective/you all know the drill mr. GW Bush, so I'm actually gonna stop writting this now and take a greatly needed piss. I got like 1% out of what I wanted to, but even if I got the other 99$I think it woul dlakcing a certain creativity and untapped/unfiltered knowledge that only my densist can tap into///with his giant mitrous machine.......................lool..........................................................................the fun's over kids......unless you're still a kid and want to always be one.....

"how many rips does it take to get to teh cetner of the only reason(s) you even take pscyhedelics/drugs in general anymore?"
"Well, let's find out....a one....a two....a three........hmm, seems like you stopped using PD's as a sacrament a long time ago, choosing to rather take a dump on the picture of Jesus sitting in the toilet instead of taking it out of the toilet, cleaning it, and donating it to a local Christian thrift shop...or better yet a legl Mexican Migrant camp where whol ages of people from new bornes to 8- years old livein a small crammed community in a random canyon down in southern california somwhere...all the building structures being just a tiny step above pathetic and unthinkable in such a great country as this ones...with the church in the middle of town...obviously most of the money went to it, adn you go inside but notice that there's not a picture of jesus. So you give the town that picture, which now sits framed inside the church, right in the middle, above teh cross on teh main wall. Inspired hundreds from that single act alone, with generation upon generation of the townspeople to tell each new batch of people how that invaluable picture came to be part of their humble little town. <<<I'm not sure where I was going with all that, but I can assume you I only meant the best of intentions. ... .. . . . .
,,,,,,,To continue to trip once one has already gotten (what they seem to believe) all they can and will get out of "it".
*I side with both parties on this particular issue, no matter how complex it may be or may seem the opposite.
A) There will always be shamans and a need for them.
B) People will always year for the mental powers/the knowledge and wisdom of the shaman; why though? WHY?
C)Determining (or I guess "how to") when "enough is enough, and psychedelic quests/visions become a thing of the past , esocailly in this very confined, bottled up, anxiety riddled corporate americam made out of non-recycable plastic heart attack.
D) When one decideds they are done, (this including cnanabis...possibly even alcohol, but despite how strong a psychedelic cannabis can be *quite often, I fully believe that if channeled through the mind right, it could be used as a general relaxant just like a glass of wine), for most people they will/should no longer go on to use anything at all, for yes, the rest of their life. It's all about actually/finally tapping into all the knowledge one has gained, chiefly the precise laser-like fast thought processess going right in step, on the clock, with universal synchronicity. Once you're at this point sober/naturally most/all the time, taking any psychedelics/mind altering substances can easily be seen as self sabatoge imo. How in the hell would it NOT be against what one is trying (not only trying by doing) to accomplish by progressing through their own personal transcendance? They wouldn't be learning anything new other than (at the very "best") be re-enforcing their newfounded values about what they already know/realize. Seeing another set of eyeballs surrounding oneself in a partially biological/part technological womb of sheer intelligence, communicating to you through the concept of time would be nothing new...And even if it was...was a "new trip" in which the said person never experienced before, it wouldn't be teaching them anything that they haven't already learned/totten by other means, 1,000 times previously on "this and that". It would also only help but solder on some more points of useless attachment to things/concepts that are, and have always been, uesless in themselves. Attachmeht is a tricky subejct for me..for starters I'm no where CLOSE to enliightenment, that being said I do have quite an extensive general and personanl knowlege base in what icould do/should never do...gettthing sidetracked here.....about attachment in relation to "general eastern philosopy and living". How does one surrender all attachment, yet at te same time still have their family, their wife, kids...and truely love them as the next guy...for it not to be fake at all, but to not be attached to things at the same time. I have a single idea can possibly make sense of to myself and anyone else that ends up reading this, but ereally, i'm more or less stuck on the subject. I'd continue to type this up, but I've been at it for a while, and since it's something I'm legitimately stuck on, I could/will also just wait for any responses, and see wat kind of ideas are floating around out there in thousands of collective minds just like mine...well, if you go outside and walk around town/the city..I assume you all already know that they are all just as "informed" about "it" as you all....we just tend to be in a lot more denial about our arrogance on the matter(s). I'm dead serious.............peace......talk you you all later....for now that is....heh, what a trip

 

[jalapenohippie]

...I doubt very much that I will ever take any pharmaceuticals for psychological issues again, my goal is to maintain balance without any drug in my day to day life, so when I do choose to use a drug on occasion it will be that much better, and I will have a balanced place to come back to instead of needing to take the drug again so soon. I know my goal is within reach. It's just going to take a lot of patience and persistence, but I am dedicated. thanks again, I'm glad that you have found a balanced place in your life.

Please do not take this the wrong way, Sigmundfloyd, but if you are bipolar, you need to be on the proper combination of medications and you need to see a therapist/counselor on a very regular basis to keep yourself in check. You have a biologically-based mental illness which can and will destroy you unless you take the proper course of action. I strongly recommend that you try to do what you can to get the right kind of help.

Bipolar disorder is an extremely serious mental illness which requires a life-long treatment regimen of medication and therapy. People who are bipolar are at very high risk for suicide during mixed or depressed states, and speaking from experience the mania also isn't any fun either.

It is impossible for a bipolar person to maintain level-headedness and keep healthy and balanced on his own. I thought that I could do this for many years and I just ended up having my brain rewired over the years, my illness getting progressively worse as I was off of medications and hypomania kept hitting me. Eventually, my brain suffered enough damage from this to a point where, if I am off of my medications and I go manic again, I might not come all the way back from it.

Please keep what I have written here in mind. I've known far too many other people in my life who were bipolar, most of them deciding that they do not need their meds, that they are OK, that nothing is wrong. In the grips of mania or depression sometimes, unless we catch it early enough, it's hard for a bipolar person to realize what is going on and that there is a problem. Just the other day someone I knew through a friend who had gone off of his medications ended up ramming a police cruiser and then getting shot after pulling a knife on the cop.

As I said before, I'm damned glad you are going to take it easy on the psychedelics, because they'll do a number on your bipolar disorder and give you a run for the worse. I know medications take a lot of trial and error, waiting a month or so to see if the side effects go away and if it'll even work for you, but it's necessary and worth it. I guess I will leave things at that. I just hope that, if you don't decide to properly treat and manage your life-long illness, that you are one of the very lucky few who don't get ruined by it. You seem like a pretty thoughtful and driven person.

 

[Xorkoth]

Please do not take this the wrong way, Sigmundfloyd, but if you are bipolar, you need to be on the proper combination of medications and you need to see a therapist/counselor on a very regular basis to keep yourself in check. You have a biologically-based mental illness which can and will destroy you unless you take the proper course of action. I strongly recommend that you try to do what you can to get the right kind of help.

Bipolar disorder is an extremely serious mental illness which requires a life-long treatment regimen of medication and therapy. People who are bipolar are at very high risk for suicide during mixed or depressed states, and speaking from experience the mania also isn't any fun either.

It is impossible for a bipolar person to maintain level-headedness and keep healthy and balanced on his own. I thought that I could do this for many years and I just ended up having my brain rewired over the years, my illness getting progressively worse as I was off of medications and hypomania kept hitting me. Eventually, my brain suffered enough damage from this to a point where, if I am off of my medications and I go manic again, I might not come all the way back from it.

Please keep what I have written here in mind. I've known far too many other people in my life who were bipolar, most of them deciding that they do not need their meds, that they are OK, that nothing is wrong. In the grips of mania or depression sometimes, unless we catch it early enough, it's hard for a bipolar person to realize what is going on and that there is a problem. Just the other day someone I knew through a friend who had gone off of his medications ended up ramming a police cruiser and then getting shot after pulling a knife on the cop.

As I said before, I'm damned glad you are going to take it easy on the psychedelics, because they'll do a number on your bipolar disorder and give you a run for the worse. I know medications take a lot of trial and error, waiting a month or so to see if the side effects go away and if it'll even work for you, but it's necessary and worth it. I guess I will leave things at that. I just hope that, if you don't decide to properly treat and manage your life-long illness, that you are one of the very lucky few who don't get ruined by it. You seem like a pretty thoughtful and driven person.

Hmm, not sure how I feel about this. sigmundfloyd, were you diagnosed bipolar or was it a self-diagnosis, I wonder?

Even if you were diagnosed, it sounds like you're doing well, unless this is just a high phase and you haven't told us about the lows? The way you and your loved one describe the way you live your life does not seem consistent with someone who needs psychiatric medication. It's true that these meds have helped many people balance their lives out, which is awesome (jalapenohippie ), but I've seen SSRIs/antipsychotics/etc really fuck people up that didn't absolutely need them, too. Or even people who did absolutely need them. Psychiatric medications are something you should only turn to, IMO, as a last resort. Sounds like you're far from that point, SF. And I do have my share of facing bipolar from those closr to me... my uncle is one of those people who refuses to take his medication. But he's frighteningly depressed and paranoid at almost all times and clearly, clearly is at the last resort, and has been for years. He is an example of someone who needs psychiatric medication.

You know, I've had/have an addiction to psychedelics, too. You're right, it's definitely a fixation on the transformative experience - addicted to the insights. I was taking them 4-6 times a week for well over a year... it was the happiest times of my life for the most part (except for at the end when I crashed hard due to way too much monoamine release from AMT). If I was self-medicating, it was to try to help me find meaning in my life and to combat boredom and routine, not because I was bipolar.

Jalapenohippie, I mean this nothing but constructively, but just because you were addicted to psychedelics to cover up bipolar does not mean the OP is, too. Nothing in his post indicates to me that he is wildly unbalanced, or really emotionally unbalanced at all, just that he is enamored with the experience. To suggest that he definitely go see a psychiatrist and get on medication seems a bit like jumping to conclusions. Of course a psychiatrist is likely going to push medication on him - it's what they're trained to do. But just because he was given a label by someone once doesn't mean that the only way he'll ever be okay is to get a mental lobotomy via mood-altering drugs that are of a much more long-lasting and permanent nature than psychedelics.

(Again, I'm really glad they've worked for you, because clearly you did need them. And if the OP thinks he could use something like that, then he should go for it.)

I'm just saying that these days people seem so ready to take a huge plethora of drugs that are sanctioned by medical professionals that have a whole long list of long-lasting and far-reaching consequences, when any mental "disorder" is simply a blanket diagnosis indicated by a collection of symptoms that resembles a general pattern. I feel that psychiatrists (as a whole) are too quick to hand out prescriptions, rather than first trying everything else to work through issues without drugs.

Now, sigmundfloyd, if you feel you DO need to talk to a psychiatrist at some point, then please disregard what I'm saying and do so. I just inferred from your post that you're actually a very happy person and not to that point at all, and are already able to live your life well. I know you used to be in a dark place, but many people have worked through their issues without psych meds so you should at least see if you can remain in this new state of happiness and balance without additional drugs before you commit yourself to changing your brain chemistry through serotonin and dopamine system modifying drugs.

Anyway, rant aside, I did have an addiction to psychedelics as I described above. After I really realized what was happening to me (as you have done), I quit them for 4.5 months, until it really felt right again to trip, and then I decided to slowly let them back into my life. Nowadays I use them as seems appropriate to me... winter is kind of hard for me so I've been tripping most weekends to help me clear the cobwebs so to speak. It's better for me than using some sort of physically addictive drug like a benzo, or something that lowers my ability to think about my life. I will never again let myself use them during the week (unless maybe it's a special occasion during a holiday/vacation and a good friend is in town or something of the sort, and we decide we'd like to trip together).

Personally, I was depressed and anxious for 3 years before I started using psychedelics, in retrospect largely due to a nihilistic worldview and desire to not grow up. They helped to break me out of that and I can truly thank them for saving me. If I never tripped again, I would still not be back to that same place I was.

Good luck!

 

[jalapenohippie]

...
Jalapenohippie, I mean this nothing but constructively, but just because you were addicted to psychedelics to cover up bipolar does not mean the OP is, too. Nothing in his post indicates to me that he is wildly unbalanced, or really emotionally unbalanced at all, just that he is enamored with the experience. To suggest that he definitely go see a psychiatrist and get on medication seems a bit like jumping to conclusions. Of course a psychiatrist is likely going to push medication on him - it's what they're trained to do. But just because he was given a label by someone once doesn't mean that the only way he'll ever be okay is to get a mental lobotomy via mood-altering drugs that are of a much more long-lasting and permanent nature than psychedelics.

(Again, I'm really glad they've worked for you, because clearly you did need them. And if the OP thinks he could use something like that, then he should go for it.)

I'm just saying that these days people seem so ready to take a huge plethora of drugs that are sanctioned by medical professionals that have a whole long list of long-lasting and far-reaching consequences, when any mental "disorder" is simply a blanket diagnosis indicated by a collection of symptoms that resembles a general pattern. I feel that psychiatrists (as a whole) are too quick to hand out prescriptions, rather than first trying everything else to work through issues without drugs.

I understand completely, no offense whatsoever taken. I shared my experience of being addicted to psychedelics just to share my experience. I know that what I went through may be somewhat dissimilar to the OP's experiences. I know that I was self medicating in order to compensate with my depression and mania. That's just me.

It is still fact, however, that if a person has a mental illness, that person must be properly medicated and be seen on a regular basis by a therapist to ensure that person's mental health and general well-being. Mental illness is not just some made up blanket statement for the bad side of life's experience. I dislike it tremendously when people who are uneducated about these things perpetuate this myth.

There is a big difference between people who are properly diagnosed by a licensed psychiatrist and have a mental illness and people who go to their general practitioner thinking that they are depressed or anxious and asking for whatever pill they've seen advertised on TV.

If you were diabetic you wouldn't not take your insulin. If you had high cholesterol you wouldn't not take medication for it and change your diet. If you had a horrible bacterial infection you wouldn't not take your antibiotics.

There is no time when it is OK for a mentally ill person to be off of their meds, even if they seem to be OK. This is a common error made by many people who are mentally ill. They'll think that they're fine since they haven't been in the mental hospital for a while and they are asymptomatic. Then they'll stop taking their meds, maybe be fine for a while, maybe months or years, and then BAM. It always happens like that.

In the end, everyone can do what he wants to, taking meds or not. Since this is a harm reduction board, however, I wanted to make this very clear. I think that it can be extremely deleterious for a person who has just been diagnosed to read such things as "it's all in your head, it's just a blanket statement" when it is already difficult enough for most people to accept that they have a serious condition which needs proper treatment and constant maintenance. I bought into that way of thinking for years before I was hit hard with the reality of the situation.

I mean absolutely no offense to anyone here, just providing more input that I feel could help save some people on this board from suffering or death. At the very least talk to your psychiatrist or doctor about what would be best for you before refusing medications outright.

 

[Al_S_Dee]

sigmundfloyd25: Maybe you are not even addicted to psychedelics. Maybe you do get something of value out of it. Everyone's situation is different - seek within and find the answer. But out of all the classes of drugs out there, you chose the most relatively benign one. You'd be not having fun if you were using meth or H as frequently.

 

[invert]

It is still fact, however, that if a person has a mental illness, that person must be properly medicated and be seen on a regular basis by a therapist to ensure that person's mental health and general well-being. Mental illness is not just some made up blanket statement for the bad side of life's experience. I dislike it tremendously when people who are uneducated about these things perpetuate this myth.

There is a big difference between people who are properly diagnosed by a licensed psychiatrist and have a mental illness and people who go to their general practitioner thinking that they are depressed or anxious and asking for whatever pill they've seen advertised on TV.

If you were diabetic you wouldn't not take your insulin. If you had high cholesterol you wouldn't not take medication for it and change your diet. If you had a horrible bacterial infection you wouldn't not take your antibiotics.

There is no time when it is OK for a mentally ill person to be off of their meds, even if they seem to be OK. This is a common error made by many people who are mentally ill. They'll think that they're fine since they haven't been in the mental hospital for a while and they are asymptomatic. Then they'll stop taking their meds, maybe be fine for a while, maybe months or years, and then BAM. It always happens like that.

In the end, everyone can do what he wants to, taking meds or not. Since this is a harm reduction board, however, I wanted to make this very clear. I think that it can be extremely deleterious for a person who has just been diagnosed to read such things as "it's all in your head, it's just a blanket statement" when it is already difficult enough for most people to accept that they have a serious condition which needs proper treatment and constant maintenance. I bought into that way of thinking for years before I was hit hard with the reality of the situation.

I mean absolutely no offense to anyone here, just providing more input that I feel could help save some people on this board from suffering or death. At the very least talk to your psychiatrist or doctor about what would be best for you before refusing medications outright.

It is not a fact that anyone with a mental illness must be medicated to ensure mental health. You're right that the medical model of mental health is a good antidote to the 'it's all in your head (and thus presumably your fault in some way)' attitude. But it's not a flawless model. Having a mental health problem isn't entirely comparable to having a physical health problem. Yes, mental health problems can be described in biochemical terms. And, yes, they can be treated biochemically. That doesn't mean that their only solutions are biochemical in nature (nor that the best solution will always be biochemical in nature). That's just focusing on one level of analysis: mental health problems can be addressed at the level of thoughts and behaviour, as well as at the level of biochemistry; and needn't be addressed with the help of a medical professional.

And it isn't the case that people cannot recover from mental illness, as you suggest.

 

[jalapenohippie]

It is not a fact that anyone with a mental illness must be medicated to ensure mental health. You're right that the medical model of mental health is a good antidote to the 'it's all in your head (and thus presumably your fault in some way)' attitude. But it's not a flawless model. Having a mental health problem isn't entirely comparable to having a physical health problem. Yes, mental health problems can be described in biochemical terms. And, yes, they can be treated biochemically. That doesn't mean that their only solutions are biochemical in nature (nor that the best solution will always be biochemical in nature). That's just focusing on one level of analysis: mental health problems can be addressed at the level of thoughts and behaviour, as well as at the level of biochemistry; and needn't be addressed with the help of a medical professional.

And it isn't the case that people cannot recover from mental illness, as you suggest.

I did not claim that people with mental illness cannot recover. I have recovered, myself, and I have already stated that previously in this thread. The recovery process for persons with a mental disorder is life-long, however, requiring constant maintenance by a therapist and proper medication. Medication is an absolute must for people with bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, or schizoaffective disorder. I used diabetes for a comparison in order to explain why medication is paramount, and this is the same comparison that many psychiatrists will employ in order to educate persons who are ignorant to mental illnesses and their treatment.

Persons with such disorders have to be medicated as their brains do not function correctly. Medication corrects this, helps to prevent symptoms, keep moods even, and for bipolar individuals specifically prevents the rise to mania and the drop into depression or mixed states. There are people for whom medications will, unfortunately, not work very well or at all. This is where things like dialectical behavioral therapy (DBT) and cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) come into play.

Along with medication people with mental illnesses also need to learn proper coping skills and adopt tools to use through therapy which will help them to be more aware of their thoughts and moods. I thank you for pointing out that I had not mentioned this and I had only been stressing the importance of medication.

Unfortunately, you are incorrect as far as contending that it is not a fact that persons suffering from a mental illness do not need medication; it is a fact and it is something that is difficult enough for most people who require the medication to accept. The most important part of recovery for the mentally ill is the medication regimen. What you posit is tantamount to telling someone who is suicidal that it is perfectly OK to jump or pull the trigger.

What you are advocating is tantamount to self-destructive behavior and neglect for personal health, and can be extremely dangerous and detrimental to persons who need to go along with their suggested treatment plan. If a person's psychiatrist says that he does not need to be medicated then that is perfectly fine and good, but I would hope that people would stop spreading this lie, that medication is optional or unnecessary.

I have been mentally ill for all of my life. I have first hand experience and quite a bit of education on the topic from life experience, college, working with the mentally ill, and completing certification programs in the field. The number one reason for relapse or hospitalizations is always "I stopped taking my meds".

I believe that I have argued this point enough. If you do not wish to believe it, fine, but I should hope that what you have said here will not cause someone on this board great harm for suggesting that they do not need to do what is required for them to stay healthy and safe. If your doctor tells you that you need to do something, like taking medications, then you need to do it in order to stay healthy. If your doctor says you don't need medications then fine, don't take them.

I'll never understand why people find it easier to think medications are evil and there is some vast conspiracy to it all, and that people don't have to do what is absolutely necessary for their health and well-being.

Now, so I feel like I'm contributing more to the original topic of the thread and getting the discussion back to where it should be, if the OP is still around:

How have you been doing as far as abstaining from the drugs lately, and after your hiatus ends, have you thought about how often you think would be good to trip when you go back to using them again?

 

[invert]

I did not claim that people with mental illness cannot recover. I have recovered, myself, and I have already stated that previously in this thread. The recovery process for persons with a mental disorder is life-long, however, requiring constant maintenance by a therapist and proper medication. Medication is an absolute must for people with bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, or schizoaffective disorder. I used diabetes for a comparison in order to explain why medication is paramount, and this is the same comparison that many psychiatrists will employ in order to educate persons who are ignorant to mental illnesses and their treatment.

Persons with such disorders have to be medicated as their brains do not function correctly. Medication corrects this, helps to prevent symptoms, keep moods even, and for bipolar individuals specifically prevents the rise to mania and the drop into depression or mixed states. There are people for whom medications will, unfortunately, not work very well or at all. This is where things like dialectical behavioral therapy (DBT) and cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) come into play.

Along with medication people with mental illnesses also need to learn proper coping skills and adopt tools to use through therapy which will help them to be more aware of their thoughts and moods. I thank you for pointing out that I had not mentioned this and I had only been stressing the importance of medication.

Unfortunately, you are incorrect as far as contending that it is not a fact that persons suffering from a mental illness do not need medication; it is a fact and it is something that is difficult enough for most people who require the medication to accept. The most important part of recovery for the mentally ill is the medication regimen. What you posit is tantamount to telling someone who is suicidal that it is perfectly OK to jump or pull the trigger.

What you are advocating is tantamount to self-destructive behavior and neglect for personal health, and can be extremely dangerous and detrimental to persons who need to go along with their suggested treatment plan. If a person's psychiatrist says that he does not need to be medicated then that is perfectly fine and good, but I would hope that people would stop spreading this lie, that medication is optional or unnecessary.

I have been mentally ill for all of my life. I have first hand experience and quite a bit of education on the topic from life experience, college, working with the mentally ill, and completing certification programs in the field. The number one reason for relapse or hospitalizations is always "I stopped taking my meds".

I believe that I have argued this point enough. If you do not wish to believe it, fine, but I should hope that what you have said here will not cause someone on this board great harm for suggesting that they do not need to do what is required for them to stay healthy and safe. If your doctor tells you that you need to do something, like taking medications, then you need to do it in order to stay healthy. If your doctor says you don't need medications then fine, don't take them.

I'll never understand why people find it easier to think medications are evil and there is some vast conspiracy to it all, and that people don't have to do what is absolutely necessary for their health and well-being.

Thanks for the thorough response! I don't think medications are evil, or that there is a vast conspiracy in the prescribing of them (except the banal conspiracy of money: on average, drugs are cheaper than CBT or DBT therapists).

My main points were these: treatments other than biochemical treatments (e.g. CBT or DBT etc) can be effective, as I think you acknowledge above (although you then go on to claim, wrongly, that medication is always needed);

and medical doctors (albeit ones specialized in psychiatric medicine) naturally tend to be more focused on the biochemical level of analysis (as Xorkoth noted, it's a natural consequence of their training), at the expense of ignoring (sometimes) the value of 'talking therapies' and (often) the possibility of coping and recovery in the absence of any formal (chemical or talking-based) therapy.

The fact that mental health problems can be described chemically does not mean that chemicals are needed to resolve them. The chemical state of your brain can be (and, continuously, is) altered by non-chemical means, through your experiences, thoughts, interactions, behaviours. More precisely: the chemical and psychological levels of analysis are both causal and relevant, albeit in different ways.

Really, doctors are not necessarily perfect arbiters of the treatment of mental disorders. Nor are mental disorders always best treated chemically. It may help you (and many others; I acknowledge this quite sincerely - I have known many people who have benefited enormously from both medical treatment and the way of thinking about their problems engendered by accepting the medical model) to fully embrace the medical model so unquestioningly. And some people in some circumstances do need chemical treatment to be able to function. But I didn't feel I could leave unchallenged your black-and-white claim that all mental illness must be treated medically.

And, no, I'm not advocating self-destructive behaviour. I'm not advocating not taking medication one needs to take. I'm pointing out that medication isn't always the best solution to mental health problems. Big difference. To take your diabetes analogy: I'm not advocating that diabetics who require insulin stop taking their insulin; I'm pointing out that not all diabetics need insulin to control their diabetes.

 

[Thorz]

Lately I have also been one of those people addicted to transformation. Over the past month I have been using 2ce quite often, at least once a week, plus reading alot of material to aid my transformation I came to a point where I tripped one night on a quite high dose and just continually was asking myself, Who am I? It was terrifying due to the fact that I had no idea who I was anymore but happy to know I am completely in control of where my life is going. I have been stripped to the bones by the help of this substance and I am extremely grateful for it. I am now doing everything I can to use my potential to recreate life the way I want.

I feel I have gotten to a point where I don't feel the need to use psychedelics anywhere near as much as I used to. Maybe once a month at most. They really make you take a real hard look at your life and I feel its time for me to just go ahead and live it to the fullest.

 

[Roger&Me]

^2C-E, IMO, is the single psychedelic that will penetrate directly into the fundamental nature of reality. Even though I like LSD a lot more (because of its heavenly effect on music), I must admit that 2C-E is the ultimate psychedelic -- that being said, I think it has a much higher potential to cause problems, just because its such a damn world-shaker.

 

[sigmundfloyd25]

sorting out this discussion

wow I'm glad this post has sparked such lively conversation! Very interesting, thanks to all for taking the time. First off I think I need to sort out this issue with Jalapenohippie, I really appreciate the concern and understand that mental illness is a very serious thing. I think the issue here is the term "diagnosed" bipolar. I was diagnosed bipolar a few years ago by the doctor I used to see, but that doesn't mean that I believe that I am bipolar. I do not consider myself mentally ill, at least not seriously, maybe a bit of depression here and there but who could walk through this world with a smile on every day. I do not have suicidal thoughts or delusions, I do not behave erratically, and if I really was as mentally ill as my doctor suggested I would probably be completely out of my head by now from taking so many psychedelics. I have been medicated on and off since a very young age, probably due to my fathers undying faith in science to solve all problems in life. Not to say that I don't love him with all of my heart, but I feel like he saw any depression in his children as a clinical disorder that he should pay someone to treat with drugs instead of just talking about it and working through it. I think this situation led to me believing and convincing myself that I had much worse problems than I really did throughout a lot of my life. Which became a problem in and of itself , which of course led my doctor to keep prescribing more meds until I was on a pretty crazy cocktail of amphetamines and anti-psychotics that was probably much worse for me than the recreational drugs I was taking on the week ends. It was a destructive cycle for me, and I had to end it cold turkey. It was way more self destructive than my psychedelic habit. The other thing I'd like to sort out is that this post is called "attached to transformation" not "addicted to transformation" or even "dependent on transformation". I guess it's hard to discern the difference between a habit and an addiction, I tripped all the time because I could and I loved it not because i NEEDED to. I've been totally sober for a week now, the only altered states I've experienced are dreams (very strange ones form the pot withdrawal I think), meditation and a cup of green tea in the morning haha. And I have no urge to do a psychedelic drug. Although it would be fun and interesting. I have total faith that I will make it through the month no problem. Pot on the other hand is much more of an addiction to me, the withdrawal causing sleeplessness and general irritability. I'm sure that will pass in another week though. So I'd like to refocus the discussion on ways to build a healthy relationship with psychedelics to get more out of them and more efficiently integrate the insights into every day life, for example methods of combining psychedelics with meditation practices ect. any thoughts/experiences?

 

[stringtheory]

That's an interesting post & it resonates with me - to a degree anyway.

My personal experience is of taking psychedelics in bursts of several years then laying off them for several years.

I suppose the question arises why would I or anyone go back to them.

Possibly because we seek answers to impossible to articulate questions, or because it can be great fun.

May I ask for how long you've been abstaining from psychedelics?

It has been 32 years since I have even been in the same room with a psychedelic.

I browse this site a bit now as I visit with opiates due to a chronic pain condition. The psychedelic forum seemed a natural place to visit while I was here, so I meandered through a few posts....

 

[Xorkoth]

^^ Well, glad to see you here. If you want to contribute, you can without currently taking psychedelics. I think you'll find this a friendly place with interesting discussion.

SigmundFloyd - Honestly, the main reason I succeeded in a 4.5 month long break was because I really wanted to more than I wanted to trip, which it sounds like you do too. Basically, I had a bad experience with drugs over the holidays of 2007 going into 2008, and I told myself I needed a long break from everything. Then I visited a beautiful town/area in the mountains with some visiting friends, and completely fell in love with it... it was like coming home for the first time. So my wife and I (she was still my fiance then) decided we needed to buy a house here and move. So I spent the next 6 months working hard to make that happen. I replaced my psychedelic time with a greater motivation, and it was easy for me to do it because of that.

 

[Al_S_Dee]

^Congrats on the new house.

 

[DexterMeth]

All I can say is i've been battling opiate addiction (this includes maintienece suboxone)<<finally got off that, was off opiates for over 2 weeks, the longest in ~5-7 years, I decided to smoke some grass, ended up getting plastered drunk at a bar with some old friends, and the next day I relapsed on morphine..relapsed a few times actually...it's day #4.5 clean now (starting a new...some true synchronicity in me trying/having to quit this time)....I know I can't smoke any cannabis or go get absurdly drunk any time soon..unless my dear Jordana is watching after me, which she can't really be when I just go run off and get plastered......anyways, through the thick and thin, I CANNOT stop smoking DMT...I'll probably end up smoking a big fat hit sometime today-night....I CANNOT stop eating acid either...although less and less noticeably...mostly because of tight money constraints 8)

 

[Xorkoth]

Bump for prune