Proposal to wipe out most depression/anxiety over-night

[attempt4]

Dont leave. Keep posting...it would be nice to further debate/hear what you have to say. Keep this thread open please for conclusive debate.

 

[Heroin Girl]

Op got kinda out there, but I do agree that opiates should be available for depression, anxiety, etc. On BL alone, I've seen many post claiming that nothing but opiates alleviates their symptoms.

Imo if you are getting your drugs legally, then being dependent on opiates isn't significantly more detrimental than dependence on an SSRI...it's not as if SSRI's don't have physical withdrawals - not to mention all the side effects and permanent changes to your brain.

I don't think SSRI's are useless by any means - just massively overrated and over-prescribed. SSRI's are very unlikely to help anxiety or half of the disorder docs wanna throw 'em at - ime, SSRI's seem to work on a small amount of people with a specific sort of chemical imbalance. Most others, imo, are only experiencing placebo and would probably be better off on something else - or involved in CBT or whatever.

 

[Z Y G G Y]

I have never actually heard anyone talk about this "feeling in the head" type of depression...as I certainly have something like that. It is a constant feeling in the head area, of pressure, like a fog type thing. It gets worse and better, dependanig on the day and it sometimes makes it very hard for me to read...when I look at letters in a book it seems like they bounce off light and I have to look again on word to see for sure what word it is. It makes any kind of mental task a million times more difficult than for others who don't have this because once it gets too severe there is no working harder.

I don't know if I had this from birth...prolly not...but since some traumatic events around puberty. I have had good jobs and finished school despite of these problems.

Drugs like opiates certainly help. SSRI's never have once bit. Diet does help but when you are in darkness its hard to figure out how to turn the light on. Its tough. Just simply getting to work also helps, no matter how you don't want to or can't. Doing anything productive helps.

I will say more in a bit...gotta take care of stuff.

 

[thomas2laylum]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anxiolytic#Herbal_treatments

exercise

yoga

diet (more carbs less protein)

try these for anxiety

 

[asecin]

^ he doesnt want to help people. He wants to fantasize about people being controlled and manipulated. He is a sick young man I think is safe to say.

please close this thread so no more time is wasted.

yes he is so wrong. people are never controlled and manipulated EVER in the history of mankind. so correct.

 

[Ximot]

More practically, we could eliminate the problem by destroying technology and reverting back to pre-Industrial society. Then, people would be too busy trying to survive to suffer from depression, anxiety, etc...

I'd say this plan is more likely than yours.

spot-on mate

either that, or a good dose of fukitol... www.fukitol.com

 

[Ximot]

you have it wrong about SSRIs, OP.

you seem to be echoing Irving Kirsch's book "The Emperor's new Drugs" ... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/irving-kirsch-phd/antidepressants-the-emper_b_442205.html

But I can tell you from personal experience that when I first used an SSRI it worked extremely well. And it was physical.... for various reasons I cannot and will not use SSRIs now...

To those who posted here that it's basically alll in the mind I'd like to say "well, maybe, but it feels f'in physical to me... i can't get up, I dwelll and dwell and dwell and go round and round in circles and I feel sluggish and low and and and" and so... THIS IS HOW I FEEL WHEN I WAKE UP and sometimes I cannot shake it off all day. I used to nnot use anything chemical at all and pride myself in my ability to go through life WITHOUT a crutch... but right now is a time in my life where i cannot do this... so i say... if you must use something to feel better, by all means do. This is not a healthy world we live in. To be well-adjusted to the shit we have to live in is not a sign of good mental health. So, to cope with this reality we have here, use drugs produced by that very society... it's all lies anyway by now. Nothing is true, everything is permitted. We're all good people but we're all full of shit. Love everybody, trust nobody. And good luck.


My regimen of self-help has years of history and includes behavioural measures such as some mentioned in this thread already, but also self-medication... , is varied annd fairly sporadic but includes all sorts of substances such L-tryptophan, Valerian, Melissa, magnesium, selenium, vitaminB, but also chems like selegiline, modafinil, tianeptine.

right now tianeptine seems to work well with me. bbut then it is new. I feel like I am just "normal" when I take it, within 20 minutes or so. No buzz unless I take 2 or 3 or 4... just quite normal and in the moment. I hope this will last. I do what i can not to use daily but most days I will end up taking it if sh*t hits the fan, figuratively speaking.

Thank you for reading

 

[attempt4]

To those who posted here that it's basically alll in the mind I'd like to say "well, maybe, but it feels f'in physical to me... i can't get up, I dwelll and dwell and dwell and go round and round in circles and I feel sluggish and low and and and" and so... THIS IS HOW I FEEL WHEN I WAKE UP and sometimes I cannot shake it off all day. I used to nnot use anything chemical at all and pride myself in my ability to go through life WITHOUT a crutch... but right now is a time in my life where i cannot do this... so i say... if you must use something to feel better, by all means do. This is not a healthy world we live in. To be well-adjusted to the shit we have to live in is not a sign of good mental health. So, to cope with this reality we have here, use drugs produced by that very society... it's all lies anyway by now. Nothing is true, everything is permitted. We're all good people but we're all full of shit. Love everybody, trust nobody. And good luck.

I actually really liked this post and understand what you're saying 100%

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

yes he is so wrong. people are never controlled and manipulated EVER in the history of mankind. so correct.

Amen to your sarcasm, amen.

 

[abore]

This thread went from legitimately interesting thought-experiment (a pipe-dream, but fun to play with) to schizophrenic rant, to troll paradise.

Anyway, I, like one of the early posters, feel like depression can be treated best psychologically for most people. Not everyone, but in my opinion most people will not be bettering their psychological situation by treating the symptoms of depression rather than the source. Some people won't have a choice, but by offering medication without psychological evaluation a lot of people will never seek to attempt a cure and just continue to treat the symptoms.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

Yes, absolutely. It drives me mad how common a practice this is, in America. Feeling bad? Here's some pills. It's ridiculous. Maybe people are feeling bad FOR A REASON!

 

[n3ophy7e]

Just a linguistical side note..In American English, "okay" is almost always interpreted as condescending. Especially when mixed with a lot of text. I'm not sure where Tone is from, but it may be a good idea to Americanize your post. My best translation would be something like this:

"Be nice!"

I am not American, so why would I "Americanise" my post??

I don't think SSRI's are useless by any means - just massively overrated and over-prescribed.

Yes, absolutely. It drives me mad how common a practice this is, in America. Feeling bad? Here's some pills. It's ridiculous. Maybe people are feeling bad FOR A REASON!

I wholeheartedly agree with both of you.

 

[attempt4]

SSRI's are big $$$ so nothing will change in the near future.

In a hilarious twist of irony, that is the depressing reality of anti-depressants.

 

[Lady Codone]

Wow. Such hostility on this thread!

I agree that modern psychiatry needs to admit its failures and expand its willingness to address other possible biochemical causes of depression (think endorphin deficiency, hormonal causes, etc.)

That said, most cases of depression require more than one "magic bullet" treatment--whether it's medication, counseling, dietary changes or what have you. Depression usually stems from a combination of genetic, environmental, psychological and health-related causes...doesn't make sense to address only one of these areas.

In my own experience, low-dose opiates and stimulants have been the most effective treatments, hands down. Here's a list of the things I've tried to deal with my anxiety/depression/fatigue:

*Psych meds (Luvox, Prozac, Anafranil, Effexor, Lexapro, Wellbutrin, Elavil, Cymbalta, Risperdal)

*Inpatient treatment

*One-on-one counseling

*Group counseling

*Dietary changes (eliminating wheat and other allergens, adding more variety to diet, etc.)

*Daily exercise

*Spiritual/self help books, courses and online info

*Illegal drugs (opiates, stimulants, pot, hallucinogens, MDMA, several RCs)

...and that's just what I can remember. All of this since the age of 16, when I was first admitted to the psych ward for severe anxiety. Now I'm 26 and have just about lost faith in modern medicine when it comes to treating mental illness. It's hard to deny the effectiveness of something when it works so well with so few side effects, even when addiction is a potential risk.

When it comes to mental illness, I think you have to try lots of things and do what's right for you. Be open to anything, but do your research to weigh the risks/benefits first. If one thing fails, try something else.

 

[RhythmSpring]

I can understand the draw of drugs to wipe out depression. MDMA, Mescaline, Mushrooms, Salvia and DMT all have at some point wiped out my depression. I think I'll stick with those rather than use opiates and stimulants, as those psychedelic/entactogenic experiences gave me tangible insight with which to sustain my depressionless state.

 

[Kudos]

This might sound harsh but i dont know what else to say because it rings true....

Those people who respond are psychologic cases and..

secondly, their also the same style personality who says things like ginseng works for energy and homeopathy. They are the same psycho-somatic people who if you gave them a pill filled with corn starch and lied about whats in it and made up marketing pitch, they would then take it and say "this is awesome it balances the energy fields of my body"

those are the psycho-somatic folks who dont have a solid perception of actual states of consciousness. Because if you give SSRIs to people complaining of heavy dysphoria and a dysphoric feeling in the head area who arent even working a job, 100% of the time those people well tell you its garbage.

I think you're absolutely right. I've encountered a huge number of people with 'clinical depression' as the result of a host of factors. The fact is, the overwhelming majority are neurotics. There are so many who have blatant self-delusions and are stuck in an anxious cycle of trying to not acknowledge it. In a lot of theses cases my solution for them would be a psylocibin experience... which is essentially a euphemism in my books for psychotherapy through introspection. Of course, it's quite likely that if you're the type of person who allows yourself to deluded on such a massive scale - to the point of mental disorder- you've got a lot more work ahead of you and the one trip could well do more harm than good.

These are the people who most benefit from psychotherapy, and who are doing themselves (and society) a great injustice by indulging in a one-a-day fix. I think you're overstepping only slightly in suggesting that the SSRI's are useless for everybody, and of course the foolish here, eager to prove otherwise with their misguided equation of intellect = logic, have jumped on this and derailed you. There are certainly some genuine cases of the true 'clinical depression' you're describing being added in one form or another by the SSRI's. But for most it seems quite plain that the 'mood numbing' is what's really the selling point. A sustainable escape from the personal problems that are driving them into madness. If you are physiologically dysphoric, certainly no such numbing is needed.

This whole discussion is so polluted by political correctness, the now-rampant 'fake-fairness', and a lack of vocabulary. It lumps everyone under one banner of 'depression' and prevents anybody from getting the specialized treatment they truly need in the same way the american tax system lumps 250k and 2.5 billion under the same bracket to the determent of the system and political discourse.

I am utterly repulsed that this man has been driven from this place (at least, though not by some official ban). The fact that he has been warned by moderators to be more 'friendly' is an embaressement. How could anyone possibly suggest that without wincing in irony after after his exposure of homeopathy and other nonsense. It should give some pause.

The fact is there are many different things occurring here but the one the OP is describing is NOT the condition best served by psychotherapy. Most of these people spend such an extended period in what is essentially a 'bad trip' that there is little left for the psychoanalyst to uncover. This is not about daddy beating them or hatred of their career path or their empty lives (and/or some combination subsequently made worse by neurotic, delusional, dishonest coping mechanisms). This is a disorder of the central nervous system. It is not akin to a hangover it is closer to cancer and chemotherapy.

EDIT: I just have to add after reading 'n3o' and 'dave''s responses again. Considering you two carry the clout, shouldn't you both be a bit more focused on objectivity and less focused on everybody's feelings? I think it's pretty damn plain that he wasn't belittling anything. His whole thesis is that there are two types and Dave, in particular, seems wholly insecure with being the second type. But why? I suppose it's a bit more discomforting to know that your condition is to a large degree sustaining itself by your own psychological choices, which are expanded upon and aided by psychotherapy, and that a similar condition of others is closer to being foisted upon them by biology. But you've taken that discomfort and claimed him as the creator of it. He isn't, and you've mixed this delusion with your standing in this place to ostracize him.