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Proof Cocaine Has Changed

G

G_Chem

Moderator: OD
Staff member
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Apr 17, 2015
Messages
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As always I’m trying to study the chemistry to pharmacology relationships between different drugs. I’ve always been a believer that drugs can and do change over time based on the many variables that come into play, from genetic changes in plants to different extraction or synthesis methods.

I found something interesting recently. I was reading this…. (Good read btw.)


I noticed this…

“Also, small amounts of tropacocaine have infrequently been detected in illicit cocaine.”

Which came from this ref..

Anonymous, Microgram, 14, 90 (1981)

This goes against what I’ve been seeing lately on DrugsData. Here’s a couple examples that show fairly high Tropacocaine levels in relation to the Cocaine.

www.drugsdata.org

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #14588 - Coke, 14588

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
www.drugsdata.org www.drugsdata.org

www.drugsdata.org

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #14428 - Cocaine, 14428

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
www.drugsdata.org www.drugsdata.org

www.drugsdata.org

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #14346 - Cocaine, 14346

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
www.drugsdata.org www.drugsdata.org

www.drugsdata.org

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #14160 - Cocaine, 14160

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
www.drugsdata.org www.drugsdata.org

Notice we have ratios here that could mean a very roughly 4-6% tropacocaine levels. That’s huge. Based on the first article I’m assuming Cocaine of old had less than 1% infrequently. (Anyone got access to that Microgram Journal?)

Tropacocaine definitely has psychoactive effects. If anyone can add anything on it please do, but I’ll put in what I know.

“Tropacocaine has cardiovascular effects.Tropacocaine inhibits norepinephrine uptake at the concentration of 30 microM. Tropacocaine has antimuscarinic activity, it can attenuate the oxotremorine-induced inhibition of the release of acetylcholine, it can inhibit the spontaneous and veratridine-induced release of newly synthesized acetylcholine, but not via activation of presynaptic muscarinic receptors.”

There’s even a book written on the drug called THC and Tropacocaine by Otto Snow.

“tropacocaine is actually a stimulant (DAT inhibitor) with about 10% the potency of cocaine. It's the benzoic ester of pseudotropine.” (Written by one of our own nearly two decades ago, @fastandbulbous)

It’s also considered a parasympatholytic drug, which reduces nervous system activity. This seems like it could also reduce cocaines effects.

I’ll add more on its pharmacology later but it hopefully others will chime in. Either way I’m fairly confident to say the Cocaine has changed from the 70’s/80’s to now.

I’ll say I feel I’ve even felt the change from when I first started to now. I think my first try was very good Cocaine in 2005. While there’s still amazing product these days and often more pure, I find some batches give this messy kinda trippy edgy vibe that doesn’t get purified out.

Interesting stuff..

-GC
 
Interesting. Food for thought indeed. Personally I think the united states should legalize, regulate and tax Cocaine like alcohol.

At least then we will know the quality and potency of the product that so many folks choose to snort and otherwise consume regardless of legality.

A drug this popular should just be ok to use for adults over 21. I see no real reason not to allow cocaine to be used by adults for recreation and socialization.

Semi off topic sorry bruh I'm just feeling my inner libertarian coming out today full stop lol
 
It's been known since the early 90s. I think it's a function of coca plants being grown at lower altitudes.

Of course, it's likely because it IS possible to remove - it won't form a calcium salt with lime and lime is a pinchpoint in cocaine production. So someone has figured out a way to use an alternative. I note one route is to soak dried leaves in lime 'or other alkali chemical' likely sodium carbonate.

So what you are seeing is someone getting around the law. Cement would work (CaO) but it would have to be sealed against moisture. THAT would cost money.
 
Fertile said:
Dang, I do not have access to that paper.
Click to expand...
search researchgate

Geographically Sourcing Cocaine's Origin – Delineation of the Nineteen Major Coca Growing Regions in South America​

 
I dont know about pharmacology nor chemistry like @Fertile or @G_Chem but I have to say that I have better cocaine now that firstime in the late 90s.

Kongoman
❤️❤️❤️❤️
 
Conditions (eg altitude etc) and genetics have serious effects on alkaloid ratios; just look at cannabis and proportions of cannabinoids.
While tropacocaine is psychoactive, the fact it is a local anaesthetic means for an equivalent effects, it is way more cardiotoxic (hence the move towards para- fluorobenzoic acid for esterification: 40% cocaine's stimulant activity as opposed to tropacocaine's 10%). If you check atropine's pharmacology, it is also a stimulant, but that gets lost in the anticholinergic activity.
 
fastandbulbous said:
Of course, the use of levamisolewill also have an effect...
Click to expand...

True but it seems it’s use isn’t near as prevalent as it was over a decade ago. Still out there but much less common. It can also be purified out with 5x hot water washes on the freebase.

I will say this most recent .8g I got (split a teener) was really damn good. Did some more last night and fuck is it some of the better product I’ve had in my lifetime. Been on it two nights now me and my wife and still haven’t even done half of it yet.

-GC
 
Any plant derived drug is way more usceptable to noticeable changes than a synthetic drug, prely because of the variabilit of living orgnisms (just look at responses to cannabis veriation)
 
fastandbulbous said:
Any plant derived drug is way more usceptable to noticeable changes than a synthetic drug, prely because of the variabilit of living orgnisms (just look at responses to cannabis veriation)
Click to expand...

Exactly. It’s fascinating to think of alkaloid changes over time, not only that but multiple species are used for cocaine production. Each specie it’s own “flavor.”

-GC
 
G_Chem said:
Exactly. It’s fascinating to think of alkaloid changes over time, not only that but multiple species are used for cocaine production. Each specie it’s own “flavor.”

-GC
Click to expand...
I think they are all E. coca, just some are strains bred to be herbicide-proof...
 
“Colombian coca farmers have historically cultivated three varieties of coca for cocaine production (Erythroxylum novogranatense var. novogranatense, Erythroxylum novogranatense var. truxillense, and Erythroxylum coca var. ipadu).”

-GC
 
G_Chem said:
As always I’m trying to study the chemistry to pharmacology relationships between different drugs. I’ve always been a believer that drugs can and do change over time based on the many variables that come into play, from genetic changes in plants to different extraction or synthesis methods.

I found something interesting recently. I was reading this…. (Good read btw.)


I noticed this…

“Also, small amounts of tropacocaine have infrequently been detected in illicit cocaine.”

Which came from this ref..

Anonymous, Microgram, 14, 90 (1981)

This goes against what I’ve been seeing lately on DrugsData. Here’s a couple examples that show fairly high Tropacocaine levels in relation to the Cocaine.

www.drugsdata.org

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #14588 - Coke, 14588

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
www.drugsdata.org www.drugsdata.org

www.drugsdata.org

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #14428 - Cocaine, 14428

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
www.drugsdata.org www.drugsdata.org

www.drugsdata.org

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #14346 - Cocaine, 14346

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
www.drugsdata.org www.drugsdata.org

www.drugsdata.org

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #14160 - Cocaine, 14160

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
www.drugsdata.org www.drugsdata.org

Notice we have ratios here that could mean a very roughly 4-6% tropacocaine levels. That’s huge. Based on the first article I’m assuming Cocaine of old had less than 1% infrequently. (Anyone got access to that Microgram Journal?)

Tropacocaine definitely has psychoactive effects. If anyone can add anything on it please do, but I’ll put in what I know.

“Tropacocaine has cardiovascular effects.Tropacocaine inhibits norepinephrine uptake at the concentration of 30 microM. Tropacocaine has antimuscarinic activity, it can attenuate the oxotremorine-induced inhibition of the release of acetylcholine, it can inhibit the spontaneous and veratridine-induced release of newly synthesized acetylcholine, but not via activation of presynaptic muscarinic receptors.”

There’s even a book written on the drug called THC and Tropacocaine by Otto Snow.

“tropacocaine is actually a stimulant (DAT inhibitor) with about 10% the potency of cocaine. It's the benzoic ester of pseudotropine.” (Written by one of our own nearly two decades ago, @fastandbulbous)

It’s also considered a parasympatholytic drug, which reduces nervous system activity. This seems like it could also reduce cocaines effects.

I’ll add more on its pharmacology later but it hopefully others will chime in. Either way I’m fairly confident to say the Cocaine has changed from the 70’s/80’s to now.

I’ll say I feel I’ve even felt the change from when I first started to now. I think my first try was very good Cocaine in 2005. While there’s still amazing product these days and often more pure, I find some batches give this messy kinda trippy edgy vibe that doesn’t get purified out.

Interesting stuff..

-GC
Click to expand...
If it wasn't purified with Ether, its not real coke.
 
G_Chem said:
Exactly. It’s fascinating to think of alkaloid changes over time, not only that but multiple species are used for cocaine production. Each specie it’s own “flavor.”

-GC
Click to expand...
The bombest coke I tried had a moderate cocaine distinctintive smell, shiny white pearly color and it felt so gentle on the nose. Couple bumps was enough to be high as f for 30 mins.not so bad comedown. With my friend I made the stupid/reckless decision to stsrt doing lines, even though they were small...after 15 mins I started feeling a bit uncomfortable and this repeated at least like 6 times over the course of 3-4 hours. Nevertheless, that cocaine was awesome. You just have to be careful to not overdoit, a lightweight girl or a newbie could easily OD on that stuff.real coke is Next level shit.
P.S that cocaine was definitely at least 95-97% btw
 
nznity said:
The bombest coke I tried had a moderate cocaine distinctintive smell, shiny white pearly color and it felt so gentle on the nose. Couple bumps was enough to be high as f for 30 mins.not so bad comedown. With my friend I made the stupid/reckless decision to stsrt doing lines, even though they were small...after 15 mins I started feeling a bit uncomfortable and this repeated at least like 6 times over the course of 3-4 hours. Nevertheless, that cocaine was awesome. You just have to be careful to not overdoit, a lightweight girl or a newbie could easily OD on that stuff.real coke is Next level shit.
P.S that cocaine was definitely at least 95-97% btw
Click to expand...
First time I tried coke, it was British Pharmacopea 98%+, from a bottle, er 'acquired' from a pharmacy's CD cabinet (mate bought a whole nicked CD cabinet). Never realized I'd never have that purity again. I did really enjoy it, but over time, I realized that cocaine turns a lot of people into into utter self obsessed gobshites (me included). Can't remember exactly how many times I had it until I decided it wasn't for me (max half a dozen times, but more likely 3 or 4). Price played a big part (massively overpriced and cut to fuck by the time it reached British street level), but mostly, it was the gobshite factor. I prefer amphetamine(s), as they motivate me to get things done, rather than just whitter on about what I would do (it's the punk sensibilities from being a teenager!).
That said, a lot of punks went from amphetamine to heroin; again, it's not for me (more a festival crusty, who never lost a love for psychedelics!). Had I developed a taste for cocaine, my heart attack would probably been a whole lot worse (possibly fatal), on top of dairy clogging my right coronary artery.
Always amazes me how increasing monoamine neurotransmitters (dopamine, noradrenaline & serotonin) can go from self obsessed gobshite (cocaine), via loved up gobshite (MDMA) to having insights into life, the universe and everything (LSD, DOM etc), who comes out with bollocks because the English language really can't explain the psychedelic mindset. At least, that's me!
 
fastandbulbous said:
First time I tried coke, it was British Pharmacopea 98%+, from a bottle, er 'acquired' from a pharmacy's CD cabinet (mate bought a whole nicked CD cabinet). Never realized I'd never have that purity again. I did really enjoy it, but over time, I realized that cocaine turns a lot of people into into utter self obsessed gobshites (me included). Can't remember exactly how many times I had it until I decided it wasn't for me (max half a dozen times, but more likely 3 or 4). Price played a big part (massively overpriced and cut to fuck by the time it reached British street level), but mostly, it was the gobshite factor. I prefer amphetamine(s), as they motivate me to get things done, rather than just whitter on about what I would do (it's the punk sensibilities from being a teenager!).
That said, a lot of punks went from amphetamine to heroin; again, it's not for me (more a festival crusty, who never lost a love for psychedelics!). Had I developed a taste for cocaine, my heart attack would probably been a whole lot worse (possibly fatal), on top of dairy clogging my right coronary artery.
Always amazes me how increasing monoamine neurotransmitters (dopamine, noradrenaline & serotonin) can go from self obsessed gobshite (cocaine), via loved up gobshite (MDMA) to having insights into life, the universe and everything (LSD, DOM etc), who comes out with bollocks because the English language really can't explain the psychedelic mindset. At least, that's me!
Click to expand...
i did that shit all backwards. im a punk rocker that went from dope to speed. have been enjoying some pretty ok coke recently too. like a few minutes ago. theres not a lot of rhyme or reason to my use really. im kind of an opportunist. i guess as a punk and a bit of a nihilist im quite happy to take shit as it comes. that said, the cocaine does seem a little different than from when i first used maybe twenty years ago. feels a lot cleaner. its not nearly as tweaky and jittery. of course that could be due to any number of variables. the shit is cheap and consistent lately though, and for that, im fucking thrilled.
 
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